JFK

[Hate Is Art]

We don't really cover JFK in school history classes so i was just wondering why he was shot? who by? and anyones opionions of him as a president,
was he a republican or democrat?

[FistFullOfSteel]

I think he was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald.
JFK was a democrat.Why he was shot,i dont know.

JFK info. (http://www.houseofessays.com/viewpaper/8763.html)

[Al Creed]

Some say he was shot for his lienency on Equal Rights

Some say he was shot by angry CIA agents because JFK refused to invade Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis

I have little respect for JFK. A child of privledge, who layed the groundwork for America's involvement (and eventual embarrassment) in Vietnam, who attempted to enter Cuba during the Bay of Pigs to unjustly overthrow Fidel Castro, an adulterer...what a guy!

There's one thing about him, though, that feuls my resentment for him more than any part of his track record:

"Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

To me, this interprets to: "Submit to our rule"

[Marxist in Nebraska]

There are a lot of conspiracy theories about who killed JFK. The government line officially blames Oswald, who worked alone. The forensics do not seem to support this. It seems apparent that Kennedy's security forces were at least complicit in his murder, if not directly responsible. It is all simple speculation, I think. From what I can tell, Oswald did not act alone if he was involved at all. Beyond that, it is anyone's guess.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Marxist in [email protected] 29 2003, 07:07 PM
There are a lot of conspiracy theories about who killed JFK. The government line officially blames Oswald, who worked alone. The forensics do not seem to support this. It seems apparent that Kennedy's security forces were at least complicit in his murder, if not directly responsible. It is all simple speculation, I think. From what I can tell, Oswald did not act alone if he was involved at all. Beyond that, it is anyone's guess.
Good old Magic bullet: -

http://www.celebritymorgue.com/jfk/magic-bullet.jpg

It was blatantly the government, because he wouldnt play ball with the military.

[truthaddict11]

who really cares how he died? he was an imperialist you really shouldnt waste your time discussing the deaths of old rotting capitalists.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

I would agree with that truthaddict11... it is an issue that historians should not waste too many days of their lives arguing over...

[El Commandante]

JFK was a democrat who had been put in power by 'daddy' who was a Nazi sympathiser, a racist and had mafia links.

JFK had his head blown off; by who? No one really knows but the Zapruder footage of the gun shot is pretty impressive - forward and to the left.

[Jesus Christ]

there had to be a 2nd gunman on the knoll
o well

[El Commandante]

If you watched Red Dwarf then you will know that the second gunman was JFK shooting himself after going back in time with the lads from Red Dwarf to prevent himself from getting impeached ... I believe this theory whole heartedly as it is the most obvious and realistic.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2003, 08:08 PM
who really cares how he died? he was an imperialist you really shouldnt waste your time discussing the deaths of old rotting capitalists.
Thats not the point, the point is it was a classic "cover up", a classic conspiricy.

Hell it doesnt matter what ideology you are its still fun to try and solve the puzzle yourself. Just like thousands of people every year try and solve the "Jack the Ripper" case over 100 years after the event.

[Sabocat]

I would suggest the answer to the JFK assassination is no further away than the little gem know as Operation Northwoods.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html


Kennedy instituted the embargo on Cuba, and rubber stamped the Bay of Pigs invasion.

Apparently, he'd never heard the expression: You reap what you sow.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

It saddens me to see people so disillusioned about JFK’s death and reign s soon after it happened. It has become myth so soon.

Bay of Pigs? Kennedy didn’t want this to happen. He didn’t send in the air cover to support the invasion. The CIA lied to him throughout the affair. That leads to one of the reasons he was shot: The government saw this as JFK being “soft on Communism”

Vietnam? I don’t know which of you said it, but to say he laid the groundwork for the war is barmy. Was it the Kennedy administration that started the war? No. Have you not read what Kennedy planned to do? By 64 he wanted to have the number of troops in Vietnam to have at least halved and by 65, he wanted them all out. This, again leads us to a reason he was shot: Again, the government saw this as soft on Communism. But also, war is the biggest business in America. Too many powerful people would’ve had a negative impact if the war had ended. Months after JFK's death, the LBJ administration DOUBLED the number of troops in Vietnam. I'll leave the relevane of that for you to work out.

Racist? I can’t speak about JFK’s Dad, but it’s irrelevant anyway. JFK wanted to give blacks their rights. As Jack Ruby said, he had “niggers running around everywhere looking forward to their rights”. He held regular meetings with the civil rights movements and would’ve improved the lives of blacks and given them their rights as citizens.

If this was any old conspiracy, I could see why people don’t care anymore. But this was a conspiracy by a government to kill it’s leader. Like Caesar, JFK was hounded down by the powerful people below him. He was surrounded by enemies.

As for the assassination, I could go on all day. But I refer you to James Fetzer’s book, “Murder In Dealey Plaza”.

Security was not taken care of. Suspiciously, the guy who would’ve been in charge that day was sent to the south pole by his chief, leaving security operation to government officials, who didn’t do the job. Among the things that this man would’ve done had he been in Dallas are:
- Not allowed a drop-top
- Not allowed open windows
- Not allowed the sharp turn onto Elm Street
- Not allowed the car to slow down to 11mph after that turn
There should’ve been an army presence felt in a very well known JFK-hostile area like Dallas.

As for Oswald; anyone who believes he killed JFK should be referred to an insane asylum. Nobody could do that job from that window. And someone has already posted the magic bullet theory on here. That speaks for itself. Again, if you believe that you should also be referred to an insane asylum.

What happened to Oswald? He was shot before the investigation could begin. By who? Jack Ruby. Why is this significant? Jack Ruby worked for the CIA as well as the ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence). As they say, “Once ONI, always ONI”. And as they also say, “You never leave the Agency”. Ruby was still linked to these institutions. The CIA was heavily involved in this coup.

Clay Shaw, the man brought to trial (and cleared) by Jim Garrison was also ex-CIA and ex-ONI.

I suggest you all read up on this properly. You say JFK was imperialist. You only say that because he was an American president. He wanted to end the imperialist nature of America at the time.

The evidence and the documents are locked away until 2038. Why would a government do that? Because by then, John Fitzgerald Kennedy and the 22nd November 1063 will have become myth and legend. All those involved will be dead and buried and it will act only as enlightenment for historians of that time.

It's sickening.

[Sabocat]

I suggest you all read up on this properly. You say JFK was imperialist. You only say that because he was an American president. He wanted to end the imperialist nature of America at the time.

I suggest YOU read up on this properly. JFK enacted the embargo on Cuba. The day before he enacted it, he sent his Secretarty to buy 1000 Cuban cigars. He was elated to find out that he was able to get 1300. The next day, the embargo went into effect.

JFK most likely was given the election much like George W. The corrupt Chicago cabal of Daly ensured his election. It is widely known that votes, delegates etc were purchased to this end. JFK was the optiomy of Bourgeois Politics. His family worth at that time was estimated at 400 million. The Kennedy's even started a bogus airline service known as "Ken-Air" to allow them to purchase a jet for JFK's campaign and write it off as an expense.

Say what you want about the Bay of Pigs. It's true that it wasn't Kennedy's plan, however he rubber stamped it and allowed it to go forward, regardless of it's success.

The Cuban missle crisis came about as a dispute over missles in Turkey aimed at Russia. Missles were placed in Cuba to make a point and to get Kennedy to withdraw them. He brought the world to the brink of nuclear war rather than just peacefully remove the missles. He was most definitely a "Cold War Soldier"

JFK made concessions to the blacks for civil rights to keep them appeased for the capitalists. To think any different is naive. RFK was very definitely more sympathetic to the Civil Rights movement than JFK was. It was most likely his pressure on his brother to get the few things passed that they did. Their only desire for the Civil Rights movement was that it didn't get out of hand and interupt buisness as usual.

JFK was madly anti-communist. It's a fallacy that he would have fully removed troops from Vietnam. Or even been allowed to for that matter. Johnson also stated that he wouldn't send "American boys half way around the world to fight a war that the Vietnamese boys should be fighting." He built the war up, even while saying he wanted us out. Like all ruling class presidents, they were at the beck and call of their masters on Wall Street and (as Eisenhower coined it) The Military Industrial Complex.

[toastedmonkey]

I dont really know to much on the subject, the majority of what i know came from the excellnt Movie JFK (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004CZ6Q/ref=sr_aps_dvd_1_1/026-3062317-9907622)

Its really about Jim Garrison

Hes the only guy to bring charges againest the american government, or something like that.

He made them accept that, there is probably truth in his conspiracy theory and that the CIA may of been involved.

It was a while ago i saw the movie, so that might be a little off

Oh and he was the guy who came up with the magic bullet theory

[SonofRage]

Originally posted by El [email protected] 29 2003, 03:21 PM
JFK was a democrat who had been put in power by 'daddy' who was a Nazi sympathiser, a racist and had mafia links.

JFK had his head blown off; by who? No one really knows but the Zapruder footage of the gun shot is pretty impressive - forward and to the left.
It was actually "back and to the left"

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

toastedmonkey, he did not invent the magic bullet theory.

The Warren Commission report put forward the Magic Bullet theory in their official report into the assassination.

Jim Garrison completely slaughtered the theory in court. Did you watch the film drunk or something?

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

And SonOfRage is right. It was back and to the left. Thus proving Oswald did not fire the fatal head shot as he was behind JFK when the shot hit, which would've made his head go forward. Thus, by definition, making the assassination a conspiracy.

[toastedmonkey]

Ill have to watch the movie again.

He explained the magic bullet theory rather sarcastically, i think, and proved that a single bullet could in no way do what the government said it did.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Altough I believe that JFK was murdered by the US gov't, but you can't say that JFK wasn't an Imperialist.

BTW: Didn't his brains "mysteriously" dissapear from the hospital?

[YKTMX]

The only reason JFK is romanticised is becuase he was handsome and glamorous. The best thing about JFK is Stone's glorious movie.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2003, 11:07 AM
The only reason JFK is romanticised is becuase he was handsome and glamorous [...]
Yeah... he was not a very popular president at the time, from what I understand. His wife, and her designer clothes, was a bigger hit to more people than JFK was. His assasination had the effect of immortalizing him...

[FistFullOfSteel]

I heard on tv that Oswald was a marxista but not a communist,he was anti-usa too,no wonder why all blamed him...

[Sabocat]

Can't we just leave the notion that JFK was any kind of friend to the left behind? Here is some reading to dispell some of the JFK myth.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/stjohn.htm

[sickofyou]

I think everybody would like to blame it on Oswald, or the CIA, or the FBI, or the Mafia, or whoever, but did you stop to think about why? Of course an obvious reason would be...POWER which is also why i am thinking he wouldn't of been shot by the Castro supporters or any other type of foreign powers, like Russian, Vietnamese, Cuban, or even Mafia...the majority of which is Italian.
See if you know any of the 'history' of the United States, you can witness some of the patterns with-in the social fabric of America. If not, many things get blurred as to what happened and why it did.
Take for instance the movie "Gangs of New York" by Martin Scorsese and you will see the bitter hatred held by the "natives" against the Irish and other foreigners. A veiw many shared and could not easily sway. Now if you watched the movie JFK by Oliver Stone, maybe these lines in it are close to truth, like after the president is killed. There is a scene in a bar, and they announce the death of John F. Kennedy one of the actors playing Guy Banister says "That's what happens when they let niggers vote, they get together with the jews and catholics and they elect an irish bleeding heart". Then the guy played by Jack Lemmon stops him, before the other people in the bar take notice. It is right there staring us in the face and yet we continue to blame it on some silly fuckin' Oswald.
How long is the lie going to be told. Until a true book of American history is taugt in class rooms? I don't know when or how but it demands a further look by the government which has kept it a secret at the expense of you the tax-payer. The news media should, cuz if not, we are living in a facist USA. :(


he was irish decent with most republicans, looking down at people now of english decent.

thanks Euripidies for helping me see.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

I think you should first read all of the posts before criticising.

I have indeed discussed the question "Why" inmypost dated Nov 1 2003, 12:41 AM earlier in the discussion.

I also think you have placed way to much of your evidence on the film. The film is a dramatisation and based on the events of November 22nd 1963 and the confusion that follwed and still continues today. I very much doubt the quotes you refer to were made at all.

[sickofyou]

so what are you saying Socialsmo?!?

Kennedy was "jist a patsy" :huh:



;(perhaps. sick

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

I'm afraid I don't have a clue what you mean

[sickofyou]

i have no clue as to what you mean
That's just it, none of us do, "Its a mystery inside of a riddle, wrapped around an enigma. DOn't you get it, man?....the fucking shoooters dont even know". So obiously we are shockd right down to the core. Like the rise of Hitler...was only 31 years ago before the death of JFK. and before that evil passed down 2. From one gen-irtation to the next. People bien murdered for being the wrong(opposed) to wright? reason. I am simpl–y said how it is possible for the real WHY? of why he was killed, is often times left-out by the national mediass silencer and the people/government's apathy towards it; because. it still lies buried some_where within your sub-concious. The root of corruption, which is coveres up to a patricide. Yet our own feelings of nationalism and patriotis have erased a scar; with cannot be resolvad with*out lift up of the scab to reveil the wound. Just like with the death of Ché, and the deaths of many other leaders of men. Laed astray of their path by 1 single man and a gun. --ha liessss?


;(i want 2believe i came around. sick

o well fuckitt

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

Why are you quoting the film again?

I think if you focus on the information given in the many books published rather than the one dramtised motion picture based on the events, you will find that it is not as much of a mystery as you seem to believe.

You ask why it has been silenced and covered up by the media? Is that not as painstakingly obvious to you as it is to me and thousands of others? The American institutions had a part to play in the murder. Secret Service agents, CIA agents all had Mob ties. They all worked together to bring down a man who was going to change things in favour of the masses and not uphold the policy which usual President's take of serving the few elites. The instituions have successfully created a myth of the Kennedy assassination, one which you clearly buy into, and therefore this leads to two types of people:
1) People like you who believe everything is a mystery and nobody knows who did it
2) People who have, as you mention, become apathetic and don't really care about it because it was so long ago.

Again, I think your main problem lies in the fact you have placed far too much emphasis on the film. It is a great film. But it should serve as a stimulus for people to then learn about the JFK assassination through factual resources. I suggest you utilise this particular use of Stone's movie.

[LiquidX]

Originally posted by Non-Sectarian Bastard!@Nov 2 2003, 05:17 PM
BTW: Didn't his brains "mysteriously" dissapear from the hospital?
From my understanding the US govn stole his brains and are keeping them confined for 75 years before anyone can access them.

Personally I think it was the CIA who killed JFK, just as I believe they killd MLK(Matrin Luther King). He was a stickler for equal rights, being good buddies with MLK and all. Also from several sources that I've read he was secretly planning to disband the CIA, to which the members of the CIA didnt take very kindly.

I don't think there are many people still alive that know the truth about the assassination, and certainly none on this forum :P . Personally I could care less about the death of a president, I would just like to know what actually happened.

[Le Libérer]

Originally posted by Non-Sectarian Bastard!@Nov 2 2003, 10:17 PM
Altough I believe that JFK was murdered by the US gov't, but you can't say that JFK wasn't an Imperialist.

BTW: Didn't his brains "mysteriously" dissapear from the hospital?
It was a coup 'd tat to insure war would continue in Viet Nam, the talks to end the cold war with Krushev [sp] would end, and now it has come out he was considering making peace with Castro. The U$ is all about War, money and oil. You can call him whatever you want, but he is the only US president I know of, who was actually working for real peace. Thus he had to die. To quote him he said. " I may be the president but Hoover is King." The CIA is the real decision makers in the U$.

Yes and the local doctors werent allowed to autopsy the body. It was illegally taken to Washington where military doctors delivered it.