"Blacks commit more crime"

[Nox]

If someone uses the argument "blacks commit more crime", and assuming that their sources are reliable/valid, how can I explain or refute that?

[Tim Cornelis]

Most racists are men, so odds are that you are talking to a male white supremacist. Point out that males are much more likely to be incarcerated than females, does this mean that females are superior to men?

[Die Rote Fahne]

It isn't that "black people commit more crimes", it's that people commit more crime, because they're poor. Historically, as a result of discrimination, racism and slavery, blacks have been worse off economically as a people. They have not inherited wealth, whilst white people have. Ergo, a lot of black people are disproportionately poor when compared to whites.

Gang life offers a "family", and something to do, to kids who may have trouble at home or live in poor neighbourhoods. Children who don't have much, or adults who don't have much will likely steal to survive or to have something; including food. Selling drugs can be seen by poor people as a quick way out of poverty.

When you are desperate and poor, you look for ways out, especially when the government isn't helping you. Getting involved in gangs and other criminal acts, can result in imprisonment, which will likely worsen the problem, especially if that person is going back to the same life as a poor person.

It's also important to note, that blacks are targeted far more often by police, than whites.

[redsky]

One might suggest that any identifiable set of society which is exploited, repressed and isolated and in distinct economic insubordination to other sets is going to turn its frustrations and rage in a violent manner on others far more frequently than will those other sets. On a tangential note, it may also be noted that black crime is statistically far more likely to be directed at other blacks than against, as reactionaries might suggest, whites or others.

[#FF0000]

Black people just get picked up more. Especially for drug-related crimes, where white and black people use drugs at about the same rate. Meanwhile black people are picked up for these crimes thanks to targeted enforcement and a good dose of racism

[Nox]

Thanks for the answers, by the way I'm not actually arguing with anyone I'm just asking in general because I know that crime rates are likely to be brought up.

[redtex]

If someone uses the argument "blacks commit more crime", and assuming that their sources are reliable/valid, how can I explain or refute that?

I would respond that blacks are only ARRESTED and CONVICTED more often because of racism and stereotypes.

Statistics only cover crimes where and arrest and conviction are made. For statistics google "FBI Uniform Crime Report".

[CommunityBeliever]

The victims commit "crime" the real perpetrators "fight for freedom."

[Commissar Rykov]

Criminology and especially Critical Criminology rejects such a thesis because it ignores the Socio-Economic conditions and systematic racism that is inherent in the Criminal Justice system. Critical Criminology goes by the basis that lower classes commit more "crime" because the criminal justice system is nothing more than a Ruling Class system that is put in place to keep the Lower Classes in their place.

[Yugo45]

Die Rote said it the best.

Most people go into crime because they can't get a job or they don't inherit a shitload of money. And that's the case with black people, as well.

Which kinda points out that todays society is still racist.

[Commissar Rykov]

Die Rote said it the best.

Most people go into crime because they can't get a job or they don't inherit a shitload of money. And that's the case with black people, as well.

Which kinda points out that todays society is still racist.
That is a rather sweeping claim as not all crime is equal nor is it all actual crime in my opinion. The majority of crime in the USA is not violent crime in fact it barely makes up 10% of crime nationwide the majority of crime is property crime specifically theft, destruction of property and unarmed robbery. These crimes are specifically targeted at the Working Class because it is a crime against Capital. There is a reason you have long mandatory sentences for stealing from a Bank where you don't have the same for stealing from a convenience store.

Violent crime being such a fluke and minority of crime has little to do with Class and has more to do with individuals doing shit that can't be excused like murder and rape. Though armed robbery does fall under Violent Crime as well.

[¿Que?]

If someone uses the argument "blacks commit more crime", and assuming that their sources are reliable/valid, how can I explain or refute that?
Indeed, how do you suppose you're going to get reliable/valid sources. As was mentioned, black people are disproportionally represented in all areas of the criminal justice system, from car stops, to arrests, to convictions and to incarceration. This empirical evidence does not support the thesis that blacks commit more crimes, rather that blacks are being marginalized, exploited and repressed.

Furthermore, reported crime statistics can never really be verified, as the person could lie. This happens quite frequently.

But even if you had undeniable proof of that, there's still the therefore. If blacks do commit more crime what would the other person conclude. That we need to incarcerate all blacks for the good of society. Maybe establish prison camps in which to put them? Or does that indicate a systematic flaw in the organization U.S. social relations.

[CommunityBeliever]

I think a lot of Mexicans also commit the crime of crossing over an artificial border. Criminals!

The so called "justice" system doesn't actually look for real criminals but rather immigrants, peaceful drug users, digital "pirates", poor people, revolutionaries, etc. On the other hand, actual war criminals like Obama are given the Nobel peace prize instead. Its all backwards.

[Commissar Rykov]

Indeed, how do you suppose you're going to get reliable/valid sources. As was mentioned, black people are disproportionally represented in all areas of the criminal justice system, from car stops, to arrests, to convictions and to incarceration. This empirical evidence does not support the thesis that blacks commit more crimes, rather that blacks are being marginalized, exploited and repressed.

Furthermore, reported crime statistics can never really be verified, as the person could lie. This happens quite frequently.

But even if you had undeniable proof of that, there's still the therefore. If blacks do commit more crime what would the other person conclude. That we need to incarcerate all blacks for the good of society. Maybe establish prison camps in which to put them? Or does that indicate a systematic flaw in the organization U.S. social relations.
Most crime statistics come from Police Departments as they have to file arrests, contacts, etc. with the FBI who maintains a database of this information. The problem with this system as it never shows actual evidence of crime all it shows is that police have interaction with said minority group thus you really can't gather anything from these records as they merely show who the police are hassling not exactly showing any evidence of criminality.

Self-reporting databases are useless in regards to this as race is usually not a factor in the reports it is more to determine how much crime like rape and assaults are going unreported to police departments.

[Die Rote Fahne]

This thread is not discussing what should and shouldn't be considered crime. It's discussing why crime rates suggest that African-Americans are incarcerated/charged with crimes disproportionately to Caucasians. It is directly a result of the socioeconomic conditions of African-Americans.

[Commissar Rykov]

This thread is not discussing what should and shouldn't be considered crime.
The discussion is why are Blacks overrepresented in the system which goes hand in hand with what is considered crime. That is just basic logic the reality is the majority of crimes committed are property crimes thus the reasoning for such things happening has to do with the marginalization of Blacks and the poor areas they come from. So yes what crime is has everything to do with this as the majority of these claims about Blacks being criminal has to do with them being overly violent yet crime statistics do not support such claims.

[CommunityBeliever]

This thread is not discussing what should and shouldn't be considered crime. The validity of the expression "blacks commit more crime" is determined by the definition of the term "crime." For that expression to evaluate to true, you must use an anti-Marxist racist definition that targets the "crimes" of working class people.


If someone uses the argument "blacks commit more crime", and assuming that their sources are reliable/valid, how can I explain or refute that? Remind them that all actual crime is caused by scarcity-based economic systems. It has nothing to do with your skin color.

[Commissar Rykov]

The validity of the expression "blacks commit more crime" is determined by the definition of the term "crime." In for that expression to evaluate to be true, you must use an anti-Marxist racist definition that targets the "crimes" of working class people.

Remind them that all actual crime is caused by scarcity-based economic systems. It has nothing to do with your skin color.
Exactly I mean this is believed in most schools of thought in Criminology though Critical Criminology is the only one I know of that outright comes out and says that Crime is largely a fabrication of what the Ruling Class consider to be violation of their property rights and capital. I think evaluating what is crime is extremely valid as it allows one to explain the statistics shown just taking them at face value means one is accepting what reactionary schools of thought in the Criminology field want you to think.

I might also add that Racial Threat Theory which comes from Critical Criminology also better explains why Blacks are further marginalized. When the Ruling Classes ethnicity becomes smaller and smaller the more they retreat into gated communities and also the harsher the laws become against ethnic minorities that are now slowly becoming majorities. The hopes behind this is to rally the Working Class of the same ethnicity of the Ruling Class to become reactionary and violent as well as support the crackdown on minorities via fear. The tactic is used quite well in the United States and that is the reason a lot of people believe this shit about Blacks being violent while ignoring the real reasons they are overrepresented in the Criminal Justice System.

[Die Rote Fahne]

The discussion is why are Blacks overrepresented in the system which goes hand in hand with what is considered crime. That is just basic logic the reality is the majority of crimes committed are property crimes thus the reasoning for such things happening has to do with the marginalization of Blacks and the poor areas they come from. So yes what crime is has everything to do with this as the majority of these claims about Blacks being criminal has to do with them being overly violent yet crime statistics do not support such claims.
Yes, I'm not arguing against this.

[Die Rote Fahne]

The validity of the expression "blacks commit more crime" is determined by the definition of the term "crime." For that expression to evaluate to true, you must use an anti-Marxist racist definition that targets the "crimes" of working class people.
Okay...and this has to do with what I said how?

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

It's really quite simple, more crimes happen in lower income, poverty stricken areas due to harsh nature and reality of capitalism. I have contemplated robbing a bank myself just because I'm sick of the lack of moneys I have. Historically blacks have been oppressed more than their white counter-parts in America directly following slavery.

The claim that "blacks commit more crimes," is a racist spin on what is happening in lower income areas; it's not "blacks commit more crimes," it's "black people have been more oppressed socially, economically and politically than white people," thus have been stuck in poverty thus more crime happens in areas in which their is a large population of black people. It's really very simple. It has nothing to do with race but everything to do with capitalism and class.

[piet11111]

I doubt you can even find 1 bankster that hasn't broken the law but of course the law enforcers are pointed at the lower classes.

[Nox]

Indeed, how do you suppose you're going to get reliable/valid sources .

I don't know, that's why for argument's sake I'm just assuming that they're valid in this particular case.

[¿Que?]

I don't know, that's why for argument's sake I'm just assuming that they're valid in this particular case.
What I'm saying is valid in what sense?