Has America become a religion?

[Funky Monk]

Ive been talking to some right wing Americans recently and ive started to think that the nation is almost becoming a religion in itself.

I mean you have

The Holy Book - The Constitution (the love some people hold for this borders on crazy)
The Symbol - The Flag (which many argue should be revered to hte extent that it is illegal to deface it)
The High Priest - The President (some people will not even accept anything disrespectful about the leader)

The superiority complex that i have seen from some when referring to America does really lead me to think that it is now a religion with a crusade to spread its gospel.



So, tell me what you think.....

[Fidelbrand]

Well, then shall we write something about the Fall of a pseudo-religion :D

The high priest - See what michael Moore says to his president....... see how the Yanks yanked their president for pre-emptive war on Iraq and the embargoes on Cuba ~! Did they got executed?

The flag - flags of any country denotes a kind of dignity / solidarity of a particular nation........ it can't be comprehended or attributed to any religion(s) ~~

"with a crusade to spread its gospel"------- quite agree with this.... The crazy high priest who is sadly, but truly, a monkey, will try to not to co-opt , but to invade every territory and steal the bananas of the human socieites.....

Look! Here he comeSSSSS!! :ph34r:

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Has America become a religion? Seems like it...

My old left-leaning history teacher from my former high school was telling me how angry people get because she uses Zinn's People's History in her class. Using history texts that are critical of the "Founding Fathers" prompts the same kind of reaction I would expect if you went into a Catholic Church to praise Martin Luther.

[Pete]

Durkheim said: "Society has diefied itself"

It appears to be true in most cases.

Funky Monk, your definition of religoin, though, is extremely Eurocentric.

[Desert Fox]

It is not because nationalisme is big in America that they see their nation as a religion. American people are just nationalists and it is only normal they have high respect for their country like any other nationalist. I wouldn't reffer it as religion tough, since in a religion you still have moral values that are respected ...

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2003, 04:40 PM
Well, then shall we write something about the Fall of a pseudo-religion :D

The high priest - See what michael Moore says to his president....... see how the Yanks yanked their president for pre-emptive war on Iraq and the embargoes on Cuba ~! Did they got executed?

The flag - flags of any country denotes a kind of dignity / solidarity of a particular nation........ it can't be comprehended or attributed to any religion(s) ~~

"with a crusade to spread its gospel"------- quite agree with this.... The crazy high priest who is sadly, but truly, a monkey, will try to not to co-opt , but to invade every territory and steal the bananas of the human socieites.....

Look! Here he comeSSSSS!! :ph34r:
I love the pics FB. btw what is your avator all about??

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Originally posted by Desert [email protected] 29 2003, 01:04 PM
I wouldn't reffer it as religion tough, since in a religion you still have moral values that are respected ...
Morals of the American religion: praise the state, accept the representatives of govenment even if you do not agree with them, fight wars for "humanitarian" reasons and do not see the cynicism in it...

[Al Creed]

DOnt forget:

The White Hose and Capitol Building = The Vatican

[Marxist in Nebraska]

and monument-riddled Washington, DC has a sort of Mecca feel to it...

[Exploited Class]

It is not a religion, since there is not belief system of all knowing god or after life or reason for being here.

At the same time, America's government is becoming less and less secular and is incorporating a religious belief system into itself.

But nobody praise to America or it's founding fathers, nobody goes to the courts every sunday...

There are some strong comparisons that could be made and of course you made them. I'd say it would be easy to write a book like Animal Farm, where the characters take nationalism to a religious level. The nation is of course very sacred to people, the citizens do treat their nation in the same holy aspect as their religious beliefs, but of course they also will denounce their nation well before their god. "The court system has been taken over by secular society and people that will burn in hell".

As far as people not denouncing the system or as you said, (some people will not even accept anything disrespectful about the leader) That happens with convienance, when the person in office matches up with their belief system. It protects the person they hold dear as matching with their belief system and deflects them from criticizim.(sp?) They drop that attitude quickly when the person in power is misaligned with their belief system.

[Funky Monk]

The spirit of America has basically taken the place of a god.



No other nation i have seen has taken the worship of the flag to the extent i have heard of in America.

Again, most yanks i have talked to are very defensive of the President. But i agree that some may dislike his policy. That is why i likened the Pres. to a preist rather than a profit, still human and therefore fallible but ultimately trying to do what is best for his charge.

CrazyPete, i dont see a definition of religion here, i see a comparison of religion. The major religions follow this basic principal, leader, book, icon, ideology.

Speaking of moral values i think the moral guidlinse supported by some religions are surplanted by the Aerican dream ideology, that everyone should be free to pursue life liberty and happiness.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

In some ways, the worship of the state controls people's actions to a greater extent than the weekly trip to the church. Religion used to control everyone's life in the West, now that is no longer the case. The state has a more powerful presence in some respects.

EC,

I do not think there needs to be an establishment of God for something to be considered a religion.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Those yanks are crazy and it seems their country is a religion to them. So I agree.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by ComradeRobertRiley+Oct 29 2003, 07:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ComradeRobertRiley @ Oct 29 2003, 07:08 PM)
[email protected] 29 2003, 04:40 PM
Well, then shall we write something about the Fall of a pseudo-religion :D

The high priest - See what michael Moore says to his president....... see how the Yanks yanked their president for pre-emptive war on Iraq and the embargoes on Cuba ~&#33; Did they got executed?

The flag - flags of any country denotes a kind of dignity / solidarity of a particular nation........ it can&#39;t be comprehended or attributed to any religion(s) ~~

"with a crusade to spread its gospel"------- quite agree with this.... The crazy high priest who is sadly, but truly, a monkey, will try to not to co-opt , but to invade every territory and steal the bananas of the human socieites.....

Look&#33; Here he comeSSSSS&#33;&#33; :ph34r:
I love the pics FB. btw what is your avator all about?? [/b]
Comrade Robbie,

cheers~

The avatar...? i just got it in Yahoo image search, i forgot about the source. I think it is either Fidel embracing a kid in Cuba or during his visit to Africa (?) :rolleyes:

[Pete]

principal, leader, book, icon, ideology.

Not all religions, though, hold those qualities. Many, if not most, are not codified at all. Hinduism has no leader. It focuses more on practice than any central ideology, as well. In the west, our religions are based on those catergories, which is why I said that definition-present-within-the-comparision was Euro-centric. We compare on what our cultures see as the main points, where as others think we are stupid for doing such and compare on their points. Orthoproxy and orthodoxy don&#39;t even envelop it all.

[(*]

Christmas, easter etc.. Have all become "American" holidays.

[elijahcraig]

I think you do the word "religion" a dishonor when using it in reference to America.

[Desert Fox]

Originally posted by Marxist in Nebraska+Oct 29 2003, 07:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Marxist in Nebraska @ Oct 29 2003, 07:12 PM)
Desert [email protected] 29 2003, 01:04 PM
I wouldn&#39;t reffer it as religion tough, since in a religion you still have moral values that are respected ...
Morals of the American religion: praise the state, accept the representatives of govenment even if you do not agree with them, fight wars for "humanitarian" reasons and do not see the cynicism in it... [/b]
LOL, well they can be morals for the religion but I see them more as banality than anything else :P

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by Funky [email protected] 29 2003, 07:44 PM
The spirit of America has basically taken the place of a god.
I agree with that line of thought. Though you might say the Judeo-christian (however you spell that) god has in many , many ways, become secondary to the nationalist movenent in the U&#036;. I really believe the your god is what you practice and your actions are the only true praise or validation of said god because this represents the practice of a set of morals or values. So by my reasoning this in an American god, just as money is the great green American god, there are many really. I would say people in this society have largely abandoned the pursuit and fulfilment of Judeo-christian concepts in favor of cultural conformity. The really sad part is what this society has found to fill this void. I would say that these "other gods," function in much the same way that religious manipulation has been used in the past, as justification for expliotation and oppression. Things have changed but you might say god still is being explioted by the rulling class :o

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Good post, Comrade 313C7 iVi4RX...

"Things have changed but you might say god still is being explioted by the rulling class"

Wow&#33; So much for being omnipotent, then...

[Desert Fox]

Originally posted by 313C7 [email protected] 30 2003, 03:19 PM
Things have changed but you might say god still is being explioted by the rulling class :o
Such things will never change, how hard we try. Every religion will be exploited by the leaders of the country the relgion is practiced in. And that is not without a reason, since religion has many fanatics and if you have those loyal to your regime you can be sure you have a excellent guard to counter your foes ...

[The Feral Underclass]

Americanism has most certainly taken on some very sinister charactiristics. as Michael moore says under clinton this kind of chauvenism was covered up but now Bush has come in with his fuck the world attitude, and the consequences of Spetember 11th :( have forced american patriotism to new hights.

Americans have an arrogance about their system. They believe it works because they are the richest and most pwerful nation on earth. What they seem to forget is that they used force and manipulation to achieve it. But maybe thats all just a part of the american ideal. protectionism gone crazy. American arrogance has delved into this dispicable philiosophy of protecting all american interests. They have developed a bubble around themselves which makes them believe they are the only thing that exists, the only thing that is important, and must protect themselves as much as possible.

The workers of America have a hard slog but they are our brothers and sisters and I am certain that they will eventually see what is going on and tear up this fucking constition, burn down capital hill and hang every capitalist bastard that has infected their minds. :ph34r:

[Fidelbrand]

Well written, commie T.A.T. ~ ;)

[Pete]

They believe it works because they are the richest and most pwerful nation on earth. What they seem to forget is that they used force and manipulation to achieve it.

But they are not the most powerful force on Earth. They are the most arrogant. Sure they could crush any regime, but as we have seen in Vietnam, and now in Iraq they are unable to crush the people who will always resist imperialism.

They have achieved their rule by fear through pompous fear, but that leads to a problem: When the US Administration began believing their propaganda the empire began to fall. Iraq is a perfect example.

Disclaimer: This post was highly influenced by this article from Z-Net (http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=4437).

[flayer2]

Originally posted by Funky [email protected] 29 2003, 02:18 PM
Ive been talking to some right wing Americans recently and ive started to think that the nation is almost becoming a religion in itself.

I mean you have

The Holy Book - The Constitution (the love some people hold for this borders on crazy)
The Symbol - The Flag (which many argue should be revered to hte extent that it is illegal to deface it)
The High Priest - The President (some people will not even accept anything disrespectful about the leader)

The superiority complex that i have seen from some when referring to America does really lead me to think that it is now a religion with a crusade to spread its gospel.



So, tell me what you think.....
I&#39;ve thought about this but I&#39;m afraid I have to disagree.

Concerning the Constitution: Amongst the right wingers theres quite a bit of talk about subjects such as "does the first amendment go too far?" Most americans, especially the right wingers know very little about the Constitution (some even unconsciously spell it with a small "C"). Civil Liberterians seem to be the only types that see the Constitution as a holy book, and I&#39;m not saying thats such a bad thing. The Constitution is one of the better things about america.

High Priest- the prez..

Totally disagree here especially if the prez is a democrat. The only time the prez is worshipped is when he is executing a policy thats in accordance with right wing wishes, which usually involves the projection of military and police powers.

I think thats what it really boils down to. I mean , the military and the police, especially the former. Its these two institutions that are being worshipped as infallible.

[Funky Monk]

As i said, im basing most of this on my recent experience with Right Wing Americans.


For any of you that care, feel free to check them out on deadarab message board.

As i was saying the ones who i talk to regard America as the bastian of good in the world, home of the free etc. and attribute this largely due to their Constituion. I do agree with flayer&#39;s point on the Pres but i stil think that he is the focal point of the nation and has achieved the status of most beknighted and figurehead of America.

Speaking of constitutions, an American recently had the ignorant cheek to say that all the problems in Brtiain and NI were due to the fact that we didnt have a const.

Very clever no?

[The Feral Underclass]

Who ever said that was an idiot. We do have a constitution, it&#39;s just the whole thing is written down as one piece of paper or book and prayed to every night...

[Rasta Sapian]

:lol: "Power to the people" America is full of many great people&#33; Individuals with freedom to place faith on many gods, so worship: Bush, Christ, or even &#036;&#036;, that much faith in a capitalistic controled environment = an impirialistic plaugue (posibly even a religion spread through facist means) The point is that we are living in a new age of impirialism, with a pressence comparable to that of ancient Rome. God&#39;s planet remains the same. Everygreat empire regardless of religion will eventually fall.

How can an eagle fly without a left wing? :huh: