Should I take this UK apprenticeship?

[ellipsis]

I have the opportunity to get an apprenticeship at the Great Dixter in east sussex england this coming spring. Great Dixter is an english estate garden, supposed to be one of the best example of English gardens in the world. Room and board is covered by the estate and my airfare would be paid for by somebody else. Professionally it would be very beneficial to me. It is a great opportunity but I have some reservation.

1) UK comrades, is there any thing cool going on in that part of your prison, err island? Not just politically but I wouldn't want to have warm lager at the pub be my own socialization.

2) I might be leaving SF in the spring and as such want to devote as much time to my political efforts there before I leave. This would hamper that.

3) I don't like english gardens.

Should I do it?

[Iraultzaile Ezkerreko]

Ultimately, I'd recommend doing whatever you feel is the best for you personally. If you're not happy with your individual life, it's a bit harder to make the best contribution you can to the struggle.

[Nox]

England is a shithole. Especially with Cameron in power. Don't come here, for your own sake ;)

[praxis1966]

Irrespective of your personal reservations, RS, I'm inclined to say that any excuse/reason/opportunity to get the hell out of the US for a while is a good one. To me, it almost wouldn't matter where I was going.


England is a shithole. Especially with Cameron in power. Don't come here, for your own sake ;)

lol I think you might wanna take stock of whom you're speaking with. RS lives in the US after all. In terms of advanced capitalist societies, I can scarcely imagine a worse one to live in.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

You don't seem entirely sure yourself which I'd say is a reason not to do it.

As a Brit, I would reccommend against anyone coming here. The only reason to do so would be if you were a graduate with the ability to get a good job in the capital, lecturing at a university or something. Britain has very little to offer I'd say.

[tbasherizer]

I'd say to go for it. It'll diversify your horticultural portfolio and expose you to more people in the gardening scene. who knows, maybe some rich mutha in America wants an English-style garden.

Also, having been there myself, it's not so bad. The lager is all cold- it's only traditional beers that they serve at cellar temperature (which is still pretty cool). The people in the non-London areas are actually pretty open and friendly(I had an English nationalist lend me, a member of the Crescent Horde, a really nice bike when I wanted to go for a ride around Wiltshire). I noticed a lot more socialist/anarchist agitprop in Britain in a month than my entire life in Canada and the US, so it could be politically enlightening. It'll also be a culturally enlightening experience- In order to be able to make political judgements about people, places, and times, you've got to experience them in as many cultural forms as possible. Furthermore, if you get some downtime, you could use Britain as a base for short trips around Europe for curbed explorations.

But I certainly appreciate that it would be a big move, and it's your decision in the end. But keep in mind that moving around the place isn't as hard as you might first intuit.

[ellipsis]

Irrespective of your personal reservations, RS, I'm inclined to say that any excuse/reason/opportunity to get the hell out of the US for a while is a good one. To me, it almost wouldn't matter where I was going.

Eh... I have traveled pretty extensively in my life, at least as far as the US, Northern Latin America and Europe is concerned. I am not really in that much of a hurry to leave the U.S. And the UK is not even in the top 30 places I would want to go if I did.


lol I think you might wanna take stock of whom you're speaking with. RS lives in the US after all. In terms of advanced capitalist societies, I can scarcely imagine a worse one to live in.

I can. How about one with a monarchy, no guns, über-CCTV culture and YOU'RE STUCK ON A FUCKING ISLAND? I like Vermont and the U.S., as somebody with anti-authoritarian tendencies, I would hope that you would understand why I prefer the U.S. flavor of police statehood.


But I certainly appreciate that it would be a big move, and it's your decision in the end. But keep in mind that moving around the place isn't as hard as you might first intuit.

I would only be there for three months or so, not a permanent move.

Also of note in my decision making process, I would be leaving behind a girlfriend of seven years and a dog who I love like a child, except more because I generally don't like kids. Also I would still have to have my half of the rent paid, as well as my other bills, which would be hard to do with an unpaid apprenticeship.

[praxis1966]

as somebody with anti-authoritarian tendencies, I would hope that you would understand why I prefer the U.S. flavor of police statehood.

I do, but I figured it ain't permanent so why not? But it seems like your mind is already pretty well made up, so I'm beginning to wonder why you started the thread, lol.

[bricolage]

I do, but I figured it ain't permanent so why not? But it seems like your mind is already pretty well made up, so I'm beginning to wonder why you started the thread, lol.
Yeah it doesn't seem like you want to go at all, what is making you think you might take it?

In terms of where it is I had a look and it seems a pretty small place with the nearest town being Hastings, itself hardly very lively. I'm sure the countryside is very beautiful round there but other than that perhaps not much to do.

[Sasha]

I'm not saying you should do it, but if you would, you should jump the canal for a week(end) and come check out the dutch horticulture ;)

But Yeah, if this English garden business isn't really your cup of tea hold out for something nicer. Maybe you can do kew gardens or the Amsterdam or leiden hortus botanicus instead?
Or come do permaculture with my mates from the freestate SWOMP (http://swomp.wordpress.com/)

[ellipsis]

I do, but I figured it ain't permanent so why not? But it seems like your mind is already pretty well made up, so I'm beginning to wonder why you started the thread, lol.

Well I was hoping to that I could gain some insight on the area from local/uk folks.

The deal breaker is really the fact that I have no savings to pay my bills while I am there.

I have already made up my mind more or less but thought I would get some input.

Damnit jim I'm a gardener not a horticulturalist.

Psycho- If this was in the netherlands, i would be there in a heartbeat.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Yeah, grainy images of my face in public are such a huge infringement of my privacy and freedom! And the Royal Family issue daily decrees to the rest of us serfs! :rolleyes:

Maybe you should come to this country, if only so that when you talk shit about it you can talk accurate shit.

[Invader Zim]

I can. How about one with a monarchy, no guns, über-CCTV culture and YOU'RE STUCK ON A FUCKING ISLAND? I like Vermont and the U.S., as somebody with anti-authoritarian tendencies, I would hope that you would understand why I prefer the U.S. flavor of police statehood.

Yeah, not having guns is a real pain. That low murder rate is a real detriment to our society. And being on an island we are indeed totally STUCK, from West Sussex you could get to where I live in like six hours. It isn't like we have any of the great cities, landscapes, historical sites, cultural diversity or anything like that. And Sussex, along with the rest of the Home Counties, are of course ugly, enclosed cultural voids many hundreds of miles from civilisation. In fact you might as well be going to the Ice Planet of Hoth post-conquest by Darth Vader. Oh wait, how do I know who Darth vader is because, being stuck on an island, we are impervious to the influences and culture of the outside world. No worries, I'll get back to contemplating the drudgery of daily incursions by the Monarchy into my life, the dreaded prospect of being caught walking down the street by a CC-TV camera and the whole hour and the massive cost of £23 to get acorss the channel to the land of milk and honey that is The Continent.


Yeah, grainy images of my face in public are such a huge infringement of my privacy and freedom! And the Royal Family issue daily decrees to the rest of us serfs! :rolleyes:

Maybe you should come to this country, if only so that when you talk shit about it you can talk accurate shit.

This.

[bricolage]

Yeah, grainy images of my face in public are such a huge infringement of my privacy and freedom!

the dreaded prospect of being caught walking down the street by a CC-TV camera
I'm sure all the people involved in the student protests, March 26, various ukuncut actions, the august riots (to name a few recent examples) who had their pictures posted across police websites and national newspapers would agree with you, I'm sure those of them that were subsequently dragged through the courts and thrown in jail would agree with you even more. But hey, if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to hide, right?

[ellipsis]

Yeah, grainy images of my face in public are such a huge infringement of my privacy and freedom! And the Royal Family issue daily decrees to the rest of us serfs! :rolleyes:

Maybe you should come to this country, if only so that when you talk shit about it you can talk accurate shit.

Nah, Ima 'mercan and don't need to be informed to assume I'm right.

[Invader Zim]

I'm sure all the people involved in the student protests, March 26, various ukuncut actions, the august riots (to name a few recent examples) who had their pictures posted across police websites and national newspapers would agree with you, I'm sure those of them that were subsequently dragged through the courts and thrown in jail would agree with you even more. But hey, if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to hide, right?

Firstly, I was involved in the student posts. Somehow I doubt you were. Secondly, people stupid enough to allow their faces to be caught on camera while committing an act of petty criminality (such as looting) really were very fucking stupid. Thirdly, the same argument you just made also applies to rapists.

[ellipsis]

And outlawing guns worked so well, they started talking about outlawing long pointy knives. Also less than 3% of street crimes are solved with CCTV. Sounds really effective at reducing crime on both counts.

[Le Rouge]

In terms of advanced capitalist societies, I can scarcely imagine a worse one to live in.

I can. How about one with a monarchy, no guns, über-CCTV culture and YOU'RE STUCK ON A FUCKING ISLAND? I like Vermont and the U.S., as somebody with anti-authoritarian tendencies, I would hope that you would understand why I prefer the U.S. flavor of police statehood.



Did you just said that life would be better if we'd all have guns?
England's monarchy don't have any power by the way.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I'm sure all the people involved in the student protests, March 26, various ukuncut actions, the august riots (to name a few recent examples) who had their pictures posted across police websites and national newspapers would agree with you, I'm sure those of them that were subsequently dragged through the courts and thrown in jail would agree with you even more. But hey, if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to hide, right?

I make no secret of my politics (otherwise I wouldn't talk about them in public at all, let alone go to public demonstrations), and if one breaks the law in a public place without taking appropriate precautions then one is a fucking numpty who's going to get oneself (and possibly others) into trouble sooner or later. I don't like the fact that the cops but also especially the rag-wing media (Sun etc) are perpetuating a culture of snitching, but the facts are that a lot of CCTV cameras are located on private property, and their owners are in most cases perfectly willing to hand over footage to the cops. Until that changes, breaking the law in public will carry a risk no matter what one's views on the law are.

Seriously, do you expect active opposition to the current socioeconomic system to be entirely consequence-free? That's madness.

Another thought occurs to me; if those in power are willing to break their own rules to maintain their position, then it doesn't matter if there are CCTV cameras or not - in fact, a lack of CCTV cameras may make it easier in some cases for the State to trump up charges because then one can't provide definitive evidence that one was elsewhere.

[bricolage]

Firstly, I was involved in the student posts. Somehow I doubt you were.
Actually I was there getting kettled in parliament square so quit your condescending.

Secondly, people stupid enough to allow their faces to be caught on camera while committing an act of petty criminality (such as looting) really were very fucking stupid.Oh right so we should support state repression against the stupid?

Thirdly, the same argument you just made also applies to rapists.That's a bit of a cop out, we know that some things the law punishes are in themselves horrific but its naive to think any element of surveillance will just be used for that and not as far of a wider way of maintaining social control and managing dissent. Incidentally though most rapes don't happen in streets but in homes, where there tends to not be any CCTV.

[bricolage]

and if one breaks the law in a public place without taking appropriate precautions then one is a fucking numpty who's going to get oneself (and possibly others) into trouble sooner or later.
Like I said above, are we really advocating state repression on the basis that certain people aren't that smart in dealing with protest?

Seriously, do you expect active opposition to the current socioeconomic system to be entirely consequence-free? That's madness.
No but I don't expect supposed revolutionaries to support such 'consequence' either.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I don't think it's unreasonable for people to dislike being under surveillance at all times. What's been installed in urban centers in the UK is impressive by any measure, with even more complex systems to monitor speech and behavioral patterns coming in the future. I'm actually not entirely sure why it's happening in the UK, honestly; no one from the UK has been able to give me a satisfying answer to this interesting question yet. Seeing these things as worrying developments doesn't make you paranoid or a technophobe, because these measures are not neutral...they will be utilized to maintain "social order", aka the order that benefits one class over another.

Consider this:


So famed has central London's surveillance network become that figures released yesterday revealed that more than 6,000 officials from 30 countries have come to learn lessons from the centre.

They include police with the job of keeping order in the most dangerous cities on earth, from São Paulo in Brazil to Baltimore in the United States, as well as law enforcement officials from countries with a notorious disregard for the rights of citizens, such as China.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/mar/02/westminster-cctv-system-privacy


Another thought occurs to me; if those in power are willing to break their own rules to maintain their position, then it doesn't matter if there are CCTV cameras or not - in fact, a lack of CCTV cameras may make it easier in some cases for the State to trump up charges because then one can't provide definitive evidence that one was elsewhere.

That would fly in the face of the American experience regarding law enforcement technology...the increased proliferation of law enforcement tech. (surveillance among them) was one factor in the soaring prison population here. The bottom line is that I don't think supporting giving the state more ammo to use against people who oppose it is wise.

[ellipsis]

I'm a bad admin. I derail my own thread then troll people by insulting there homeland. I am sure England is very beautiful and has a lot to offer those who visit and live there.

The great dixter will have to wait until I can afford to stop working for pay, bottom line.

Thread Closed.

[ellipsis]

Did you just said that life would be better if we'd all have guns?
England's monarchy don't have any power by the way.

Oops, didn't see this before I closed the thread.

Yes, I love guns and think that those who want them for legitimate reasons, i.e. sport, hunting, self defense, militias should be able to legally own them.

Also, as a Canadian/Quebecois you should know better than anybody the power of the English monarchy. The Queen still has absolute veto power over all Canadian government, although she does not exercise it.