Are young people getting more conservative?

[tfb]

(I'm not sure this is the right subforum.)

I'm really worried that young people today are mostly libertarians, or at least that a large number of them are libertarians (even if they vote Democrat, Liberal, NDP, whatever, and wouldn't call themselves "libertarians"). I'm only basing this on things I've heard people say at school and on the internet, so I don't have any good reason to believe this.

Where could I find some actual data this stuff? Like, how young people feel and have felt about certain issues, not just how they've voted?

Do you think there are more young libertarians than there were, say, 15 years ago? Do any older members of this forum remember how the youth used to be?

[The Douche]

Ten years ago, when I was a young teenager, I thought kids were cooler, than I think they are now.


But I might just be cynical. (more likely)

[Kornilios Sunshine]

You mean in appearence?There might be some who wear "retro" clothes and stuff but who cares about conservatism in appearence?I mean everyone can have his own style.As an ideology, there can't be a conservative anarchist.It is like saying communists support racism.

[Dumb]

When you're young, the young seem to have all the answers. When you're old, suddenly the old have the answers.

Anyway, Pew Research shows that the under-30 age group is evenly split between capitalism and socialism - and that that's the only age group for which this is true. (Granted, it would be accurate to say "capitalism" and "socialism," but still...). Every other generation has a significant tilt towards, er, "capitalism."

[Kosakk]

When you're young, the young seem to have all the answers. When you're old, suddenly the old have the answers.

Anyway, Pew Research shows that the under-30 age group is evenly split between capitalism and socialism - and that that's the only age group for which this is true. (Granted, it would be accurate to say "capitalism" and "socialism," but still...). Every other generation has a significant tilt towards, er, "capitalism."

You'll be conservative by age, wether you like it or not. The young wants changes and to be heard. When you get older, you just want your job and family. sadly.

Not true for everyone though.

[Dumb]

You'll be conservative by age, wether you like it or not. The young wants changes and to be heard. When you get older, you just want your job and family. sadly.

Not true for everyone though.

That's actually not been born out by the data. Those who came of age during the Reagan administration, for example, showed far greater signs of conservatism than what the current youth are showing. The political science data nowadays indicates that you can correctly guess most people's life-long political leanings by the age of 10.

[FuzzypegX]

I believe this question was most appositely posed by former President George W. Bush:

"Am our children learning?"

Seriously though, as Comrade Dumb points out, it's largely to do with the social/economic/political climate in which you grow up/live... or historical materialism, as we sometimes call it.

[DarkPast]

I haven't really noticed younger people have changed either way. If anything, they seem more apolitical and apathetic than before (this probably stems from a feeling that they can't change anything about society, and/or seeking distractions from rather than solutions to their problems).

[Proukunin]

I think that young people who are born under bourgeois parents and taught bourgeois ideologies all their life are becoming more and more conservative..but I really believe that the working class youth and poor youth don't want anything to do with conservatism..why would they?

[FuzzypegX]

I think that young people who are born under bourgeois parents and taught bourgeois ideologies all their life are becoming more and more conservative..but I really believe that the working class youth and poor youth don't want anything to do with conservatism..why would they?

How do you, therefore, explain opinion polls and attitudinal surveys which show that, in many advanced Western countries, the working class youth and poor youth can in fact be to the conservative right of their middle class counter-parts on many issues?

[Nox]

Really? I thought young people in general were shifting to the left.

[Commissar Rykov]

I have noticed a lot of apathy but where that isn't I have noticed quite a nice swing in Progressive trends. I find even in the most Conservative States that the Youth have little interest in the Conservative Line.

[RadioRaheem84]

The youth are still bound by class.

Rich youth will be either right wing, libertarian or moderate liberal.

Middle class, especially upper middle caucasian youth learn to be extremely reactionary from their parents.

Working class youth tend to be liberal democrat or progressive, some venturing off to socialism.

[Nox]

How do you, therefore, explain opinion polls and attitudinal surveys which show that, in many advanced Western countries, the working class youth and poor youth can in fact be to the conservative right of their middle class counter-parts on many issues?

It's probably because many of them believe that if they work hard they will become rich.

How anyone can be stupid enough to believe that is beyond me.

[o well this is ok I guess]

Which young people?
I think you'd be hard pressed to find a right libertarian in a place like say, Williamsburg New York.

[RadioRaheem84]

A lot of youth are getting sucked into anti-establishment right wing libertarian politics.

[FuzzypegX]

A lot of youth are getting sucked into anti-establishment right wing libertarian politics.

But this, in itself, is a reflection of a broader fiscal conservatism that they inherent from their parents. Youthful rebellion usually operates by accusing parents of not conforming to their own principles/standards ("you say you're for the free market - but are you really?" etc.)

[Winkers Fons]

I think a lot of young people have become caught up in the hype surrounding Ron Paul and his Libertarian ideology but I don't think that is a long term trend as much as it is an election season fad.

[The Stalinator]

That's actually not been born out by the data. Those who came of age during the Reagan administration, for example, showed far greater signs of conservatism than what the current youth are showing. The political science data nowadays indicates that you can correctly guess most people's life-long political leanings by the age of 10.

That's actually quite interesting to think about. Where'd you hear this?

[Dumb]

That's actually quite interesting to think about. Where'd you hear this?

Poli Sci 160, "Elections and Voter Behavior," which I took Fall 2009 at UC Davis. I'll see if I can dig up my old notes and reading material.

[Binh]

No. Most of the libertarians are attracted by the progressive sides of Ron Paul's politics (anti-war, pro-civil liberties, pro-drug legalization). Once they are influenced by him they begin to adopt his positions on other questions, which is sad and dangerous.

Ron Paul's popularity among young people is one of the signs the left in the U.S. has failed to offer a serious, credible alternative over the last 10 years.

[Misanthrope]

The youth are getting more ignorant or apathetic. The ignorant ones are the video game lovers who aspire to be in the armed forces to play Call of Duty in real life, many kids are very very racist. Others don't care about anything other then materialistic things.

Source: JR in American high school.

[TheGeekySocialist]

they are more alienated, apathetic and ignorant.

largely as a result of changes to society in general implemented through education and state propaganda.

[TheGeekySocialist]

The youth are getting more ignorant or apathetic. The ignorant ones are the video game lovers who aspire to be in the armed forces to play Call of Duty in real life, many kids are very very racist. Others don't care about anything other then materialistic things.

Source: JR in American high school.

whilst I agree with your point, I don't think one should link video games to this, people are brainwashed by all media with propaganda, as Leftists our job is to oppose propaganda but not neccesarily the media that it uses as a platform, if you acknowledge that they are fictional and dismiss the propaganda, then video games are good harmless fun and entertainment just like reading, listening to music, et al.

[Dumb]

This discussion will get a little bit more credible when I start seeing some "we" instead of all this "they."

[Dimitri Molotov]

I can only speak from my experience in my high school, but it seems like a lot of the kids in the area are libertarians/conservative. I am lucky though, because my school also has a significant amount of Communists and Anarchists, but not nearly as much. I'd say the percents add up to about (and I am totally estimating) about 10% Anarchists, Communists, and far leftists, 40% Conservatives, Right Wingers, and sadly, the part that is greatest of all is about 50% of them who couldn't give a fuck if they tried.

I feel like there are a lot of conservative kids, and almost all of them just say what they overhear their parents rambling about at the dinner table or on Fox news. But I also feel like if you know what you are talking about, children are also more understanding of Anarchy and Communism. I think this is because they are restless wild youths who just want to do what they want, so Anarchy naturally sticks with them when they are young. A lot of kids probably wear the symbol just to be a "rebel", but then when they actually learn about it, most of them will actually stick with it because it makes sense to them. They understand why Anarchists think the way they do. Also, I feel like Communism is also more easily picked up because they haven't heard all the bullcrap from people like Glenn Beck for example yet, and it is easier to explain the philosophy to them since they don't have that pre-judgement about it, since most of them don't even know what the hell it is. So even though many are conservatives, I think they can be easily persuaded towards the left, given the right set of conditions. But since kids are easily persuaded, I think that might be why most of them are conservatives, because their parents have no problem brainwashing them at a young age.

But like I said before, the biggest group is the group that just doesn't care yet, and that actually makes me kind of sad when people don't care about stuff like this. But one more important thing to remember, most of these kids probably will not stick with their current choice. The kids who don't care will have to start to care. Some of the Anarchists might only be going through a phase, and they might get a job and end up raising a family and growing out of it, and some of the conservatives might end up liberals, or like me, a Anarcho-Communist if we are lucky.

Back in 8th grade, I used to be a super bush supporter, Catholic, Racist Sexist right winger because I picked it all up from my father. One day we had a competition in 8th grade history class of the Soviets VS The US for some reason. I told the teacher I wanted to be on the American team because the Soviets were all just commies. He replied to me with "What is wrong with Communism?" I thought hard but I could not answer the question, because I was a drone, a conforming little douche who only had the opinions I did because I just repeated what my ignorant father and Fox news said. I then found out my history teacher was a Marxist, which is pretty bad ass, and from then on I started on the path towards the Left. I read some of Marx's teachings and my friend showed me what the Anarchy symbol was, so I looked it up and read up on all kinds of stuff. I became a Marxist, then an Anarcho-Communist which I am today in 11th grade. I completely changed and stand against everything I used to support. If the me now ever met the me from 8th grade, I would probably kick the 8th grader down a hill into moving traffic, just saying.

[ComradeOmar]

As in right-wing conservative? Yes.:thumbdown:

[TheGeekySocialist]

This discussion will get a little bit more credible when I start seeing some "we" instead of all this "they."

im 22 and at Uni...guess it depends if they mean young as in kids or young as in like under 30 or w/ever

[Misanthrope]

whilst I agree with your point, I don't think one should link video games to this, people are brainwashed by all media with propaganda, as Leftists our job is to oppose propaganda but not neccesarily the media that it uses as a platform, if you acknowledge that they are fictional and dismiss the propaganda, then video games are good harmless fun and entertainment just like reading, listening to music, et al.

Yes, of course I was generalizing and stereotyping but that's how the majority of kids are. I play video games, didn't mean to Christian Mom on you!:tt2:


This discussion will get a little bit more credible when I start seeing some "we" instead of all this "they."

You won't find a conservative kid here, mate.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Impossible to really tell as everyone is different.When you judge people as a whole you can really only make such a broad hypothesis that there is virtually no room for the countless variables which come and go with life.

In my area I would say more progressive, but there are people that come and go, and the others you barely see, so maybe even between progressive and neo-conservatism.

[eric922]

I don't think they are more conservative, but they are more apathetic and apolitical. I think a lot of the youth that supported Obama heavily in 2008 have woken up to the fact that politics in America are utterly broken and things aren't going to change merely by voting.

That's what woke me up, I mildly supported him, because I actually hoped he would change things, but a few months until his term I saw him for what he was: a corporatist and an enemy of working people. After reading about socialism, and the arguments against bourgeois "democracy" I came to realize that the only way things are going to improve is through socialism.

Unfortunately though a lot of young people have simply given up on politics all together or have turned to reactionary politics like libertarianism.

[WyoLeftist]

I live in Wyoming.... Anything left of center is automatically and habitually called "Commie-pinko bullshit." To say the youth here is 'conservative' is a disgusting understanding. Being a leftist in this state is akin to lepracy. I've been threatened physically many-a-time by people in my age group (18-25) and older, strictly because of my political beliefs that I wear proudly on my sleeve. What most of them don't know is I'm not one of these soft spoken, beatnick wannabe posers. I'll fight, intellectually and physically, whenever called upon to do so.

[Tablo]

I'm in Alabama and I would say things are moving left. I would say racism and homophobia are definitely in decline, but I think that is happening nationwide. As far as actual political ideologies and such go, I think young people are more apathetic, but I am only 20 so I can't really say if things have moved in that direction. They just don't seem to care so much and if they do it is one issue they care about that affects them or someone they know personally(gay rights, anti-racism, pro-immigration).

Also we seem to be seeing a growth in leftist groups. SPUSA is setting up in the state and SDS has got more members this year.

[Geiseric]

Minority groups are definately radicalising, white middle class isn't having that boom of progressivism like there was in the 60's, it's dominated by kids who grew up on FOX news. White working class is usually more progressive than white middle class however. Anyways, people who don't see how fucked up the world is are usually more ideologically libertarian, thinking of themselves as intellectuals because they memorized a bunch of things about the system, however they don't get that things like war and anti-drug legislations are in their reactionary goals. Libertarians are just another unrealistic trend of reactionaries though, just like the populist movement.

[OHumanista]

Well my experience is from Brasil so it quite different.(mostly due to centuries of poverty and ignorance)
First, 70% of the people here have zero political knowledge, most don't know what is a party and don't care.
Having said that, proletarians tend towards apathy or center-left. Middle class tends heavily towards either complete apathy or right wing authoritarism and militarism(missing the old military dictatorship(which they didn't experience):thumbdown:

[Dumb]

You won't find a conservative kid here, mate.

What I mean is, I put more stock in current high school students' perceptions of their peers than I would put into any ruminations from us "older" folk (I'm only 23 myself) about "kids these days."

[Commissar Rykov]

What I mean is, I put more stock in current high school students' perceptions of their peers than I would put into any ruminations from us "older" folk (I'm only 23 myself) about "kids these days."
I imagine most of these "ruminations" are from people like myself in the University/College system.

[TheGeekySocialist]

Yes, of course I was generalizing and stereotyping but that's how the majority of kids are. I play video games, didn't mean to Christian Mom on you!:tt2:



You won't find a conservative kid here, mate.

that's okay then, lol :)

oh, I thought he were just after young people in general, lol

[Tommy4ever]

I only just left school a few months ago and the people in my year with the most far-left views (aside myself) where strong supporters of the Green Party who called themselves socialists. Most people couldn't give a fuck but would support either Labour or the SNP (depending on their view on Scottish independence) if pressed. There were some libertarians, but not too many.

[Le Socialiste]

Yes and no. Yes, in that they're faced with two largely conservative parties (in America's case, that is) that have shifting further and further right to meet the demands of private capital/big business, thus denying young people any real alternatives. Social conditions, class, material wellbeing, and a perception of "upward mobility" and "capitalism=freedom" lends to most youths being completely blocked off from the reality of their situation.

No, in that issues such as homophobia and racism have shown a steady decrease with each successive generation as homosexuality and race cease being major deals (we'll address the fact that both concepts are social constructs later). Take into consideration, also, that there's a big emphasis on seeking out and addressing social ills amongst young people as well. I saw it a lot growing up, and still do. It was rare for me to meet someone who wasn't passionate about some form of "social justice". Now, few of these people ever viewed revolutionary leftism as a vehicle for achieving said justice, but when you're brought up in a society that sees capitalism as proof of a nation's freedom it can be hard to break through the mold.

So if anything, it's a mixed bag.

Edit - A lot of people are pointing out the obscene level of apathy amongst young people nowadays, and I think most of them are right on the money when they say this has more to do with the near-extreme alienation faced by youth today. It's hard to get pumped up for something when you've been hit with years of people telling you it's impossible to change the system; it's even worse when people tell you it's possible and then point you to the nearest Democrat/Republican booth. I suspect most youth don't really believe in the political process because it does nothing for them - nor does it work for their interests, or the interests of those closest to them.

[human strike]

I live in a pretty radical city in the UK, but as far as I can tell, no, they're in fact becoming generally a lot less conservative as their situation and "stake in society" deteriorates. The government here declared war on most young people and most young people were at least to some degree radicalised by this, certainly in poor inner-city areas.