"Democracy"

[Yugo45]

Where I live, we have a saying:
"Samo da prođe ova demokratija pa da opet živimo ko ljudi.", roughly translated to:
"I can't wait for this democracy to go away so we can live like humans again."

Before I start, I'd like you to note that when I say democracy, I really mean the democracy that is so popular today. Basically, capitalist democracy. EU democracy. American democracy.

Obviously, I am for democracy. But not for this crap we get brainwashed into thinking it's democracy.

Right, so. What is your view on this sort of democracy? You know, elections every 4 years, etc. etc.

Pros, cons and everything.

In my opinion it doesn't work because it's simply a popularity contest. At least where I live. No one does shit until it's time before the elections. Then suddenly shit gets done. Then nothing for 4 years again. Of course there's more reasons, but I'd like to hear what other revlefters have to say about this.

Here it is quite a big issue because democracy is only an excuse to get everything privitised, but we also get brainwashed into thinking that liberalism is the way to go, that EU is the best thing that can happen to us. We even have a subject in schools called "Democracy" which is nothing but this sort of propaganda, just for kids.

[Rooster]

What is your idea of democracy? Just wondering.

[Yugo45]

Please read my post before commenting.

[Rafiq]

'Democracy' is the bullshit term that was pushed upon the masses in the Former Soviet union, the Former Eastern Block and Yugoslav states. That's why in Russia a lot of people say "This is the democracy!" when pointed out the homeless.

All the time, the Media, the schools, everywhere, you'd hear about the wonderful transition to Democracy.

They wouldn't even mention capitalism, either. It was a kind of disturbing brain wash, if you ask me.

In this sense I stand with our comrades from these regions and proudly say: "Fuck Democracy!"

[CommieTroll]

Western democracy means nothing, the entire purpose of the elections is to lead the people to think they have freedom but in reality they are slaves to capital. Look at America, realistically it's a two party state, both parties represent the same ruling class. You have an illusion of freedom.

[DarkPast]

Ok, I see it like this:

1. Capitalist society is a class society.
2. There is no economic independence for the vast majority of people in capitalist society, because the ruling class owns the means of production. This means that exploitation is an inherent part of class society.
3. This exploitation is protected by the laws of the capitalist state. So, through these laws, the capitalist state functions as a defender of injustice and class privilege.
4. Bourgeois democracy always operates withing the paradigm of capitalist law and serves merely to underline and legitimize its injustices.

So there lies the problem: Elections (in capitalist society) always presuppose the legitimacy of class rule and wage-exploitation.


Here it is quite a big issue because democracy is only an excuse to get everything privitised, but we also get brainwashed into thinking that liberalism is the way to go, that EU is the best thing that can happen to us. We even have a subject in schools called "Democracy" which is nothing but this sort of propaganda, just for kids.

And then they have the nerve to say the "Oh noez! Teh communists brainwashed teh childrenz111!!!".

[el_chavista]

A good reading is Paul Cockshott's article (http://sosialismi.net/blog/2011/02/07/ideas-of-leadership-and-democracy/) or in pdf IDEAS OF LEADERSHIP AND DEMOCRACY 1. Concepts of leadership in ... (http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/%7Ewpc/reports/leadershipconcepts.pdf)

[Ocean Seal]

'Democracy' is the bullshit term that was pushed upon the masses in the Former Soviet union, the Former Eastern Block and Yugoslav states. That's why in Russia a lot of people say "This is the democracy!" when pointed out the homeless.

All the time, the Media, the schools, everywhere, you'd hear about the wonderful transition to Democracy.

They wouldn't even mention capitalism, either. It was a kind of disturbing brain wash, if you ask me.

In this sense I stand with our comrades from these regions and proudly say: "Fuck Democracy!"

Yep, and on top of that, ask any middle age/ elderly Eastern European person, and you'll get the we had it better under the Eastern bloc response. And its perfectly reasonable too. If you asked me whether I would have wanted to live under the Brezhnev era or under Yeltsin, I think that the choice is obvious for anyone who doesn't want to be submerged in poverty.

[TheGeekySocialist]

Representative democracy within capitalism is dictatorship of the bourgeoisies by another name.

if you will, within our current economic and social structures "democracy is an empty lie" ;)

[RedMarxist]

I'm planning to read a nice book on the American Revolutionary War from the library.

The war is why we have, as you coin it, "American Democracy."

No, it is not a lie. It is just imperfect and happens to be Capitalist(everything was Capitalist back in the 1770's duh!)

And plus, representative democracy is only as good as the representatives and the people who vote them in office. It works when you have leaders like FDR and Lincoln, but fail miserably when you elect people like Obama, who hasn't done anything really.

[EvilRedGuy]

Its called "Bourgeois Democracy", also known as "Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie"

What we need is "Proletarian Democracy" also known as "Dictatorship of the Proletariat"

Direct-Democracy is more compatible with Proletarian Democracy, as "Representative" democracy is more compatible with Bourgeois Democracy (AKA Dictatorship).

[Ballyfornia]

That its shit.

[Misanthrope]

It's an act, a show, like a soap opera. They argue over petty religious issues that very rarely affect class politics.

[Collectorgeneral]

I completely agree with you, although we don't have any specific subjects here that are completely focused on "Democracy and how wonderful it all is" , somehow every lesson concerning subjects like politics or the economy gets mixed up in between the lines with that same capitalistic propaganda b.s.

[syndicat]

"democracy" is a contested concept, like "freedom." what the elite mean is you get to vote every few years among parties we have vetted and our media have vetted, and they are the leaders to run the hierarchical apparatus of the state.

but real democracy means the masses are in charge, actually participate in the decisions. for that you need to have basic assemblies of workers, of residents, and delegates controlled by them, in the same situation as them, not members of the elite, etc.

[Rocky Rococo]

It's the Spectacle, it gives the appearance of mass participation while in reality representing the accession of the people to our powerlessness, to being the peanut gallery. Its purpose is to turn people off, turn us inwards, ever more alienated and atomized and isolated, repeating self-defeating behaviors. It's a far more effective means of suppressing dissent and resistance than any number of tasers and no-knock searches.

[Jose Gracchus]

A good reading is Paul Cockshott's article (http://sosialismi.net/blog/2011/02/07/ideas-of-leadership-and-democracy/) or in pdf IDEAS OF LEADERSHIP AND DEMOCRACY 1. Concepts of leadership in ... (http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/%7Ewpc/reports/leadershipconcepts.pdf)



Or pretty please don't.

[black magick hustla]

but real democracy means the masses are in charge, actually participate in the decisions. for that you need to have basic assemblies of workers, of residents, and delegates controlled by them, in the same situation as them, not members of the elite, etc.

that is a very platonic and propagandistic view of what "democracy" is.

anyway the op might find this interesting:

http://theanarchistlibrary.org/HTML/Jacques_Camatte__The_Democratic_Mystification.html

democracy can only exist in class society and with a state.

[W1N5T0N]

What about worker/community self management? councils? syndicates? you need democracy there in the sense of what the majority of people want. You can NEVER get around that unless you go all Walden on society's ass.
But i think there is a certain problem here. There is waaay too much CENTRALISATION of power. And that erodes Democracy. It has to be much smaller, much more "fragmented". Instead of a couple of parties, it should be much more community based. These communities could then send delegates for meetings in certain regions.