One of the oldest questions out there

[Lanky Wanker]

Lazy people who don't want to work in a communist society will ruin it. What is your response to the "lolz communism is st00pid!!!" people who bring this up?

[Rooster]

I thought the whole point of communism was to be lazy? :confused:

EDIT: also, some answers have been gone through here http://www.revleft.com/vb/deal-unproductive-citizeni-t160562/index.html?t=160562

[Dimmu]

We need to ask a question why there are people in today's society who dont want to go to work. Its stupid and ignorant to think that a communistic society work just as the capitalist one does right now.

[Nox]

No work, no food.

But why would anyone not want to work?

[Rooster]

No work, no food.

I don't think that's a good enough reason as it's basically the exact same way that capitalism makes people work.


But why would anyone not want to work?

Why indeed.

[CommieTroll]

Those who don't contribute simply don't get. I don't see how anyone could not want to work. If I just lay about all day then I'd have no purpose

[Nox]

I don't think that's a good enough reason as it's basically the exact same way that capitalism makes people work.

People are under the silly misconception that people can do no work and get everything for free in Communism.

That simply isn't the case.

[tir1944]

Those who don't contribute simply don't get.I thought that "Motto" is valid only in Socialism-"To everyone according to his deed"?
In Communism it's,i think,"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." but i still don't know how would willing "unemployment" fit into that...

[Ostrinski]

In that effect, some would work for more and receive less so that others could work for less and receive more.

..Isn't that what we're trying to replace.

[aworldsman]

The way I see it, we'll have everything we need for survival by default. If you want to laze around and do nothing all day, feel free to. Nothing wrong with that.

But that will get awfully painful as you see the involved, artistic, "intellectual" (unstunted) people around you enjoy life so much more. They'll have formed lifelong relationships with people through collaborative community projects, travels, and other lively endeavors.

You'll notice that the more involved you are, the more you get laid.

Involvement does not correspond to material accumulation or perceived status. It corresponds to your personality, eagerness to learn and contribute to the community.

Monetary incentive is now eclipsed by social and spiritual incentive. At this point, people do not need to be convinced to participate. It's just the way things are. A positive feedback loop. Instead of corruption feeding corruption as a vicious social loop, compassion feeds compassion.

I think we just need to transcend our own cultural conditioning before we can think about how and why this system will work.

[Lanky Wanker]

People are under the silly misconception that people can do no work and get everything for free in Communism.

That simply isn't the case.

Aye, that's exactly the problem; it's just unclear to most people how that would work. They think lazy people would get off scot-free and live happily ever after.

[Lanky Wanker]

No work, no food.


Sounds good to me.



But why would anyone not want to work?

Ask the lazy bums who hang around Chicken Spot near my school every day. I'm doing my A levels while they're lazing around the streets all day, living off their parents and/or money they get from mugging people.

[Sentinel]

In socialism, which is our immediate goal, there will be an incentive to work more, as people will want more than just their basic needs to be met. Even if society provides them with food, a roof over their heads, education, healthcare, etc they will still want fancy clothes, new computers, motorboats, flashy cars, bigger houses etc, right?

Why wouldn't they? And if they work more they will be able to afford more of these things, the luxury articles. The fact that labour will be much more humane and enjoyable as it will be planned and controlled democratically will act as a further incentive to get out of bed in the morning.

If we talk about a communist -- moneyless -- society, that is still quite far away, but when we get there people won't need to work in the sense they do now anymore, and can instead pursue their own interests such as getting educated all their lives, traveling, spend time with hobbies etc.

And how is this possible? Automation will be used to benefit workers instead of forcing them to unemployment and poverty as under capitalism. Most tasks will probably be done automatically (by machine) in a well and democratically planned fashion -- and the rest will be shared as a few hours of community service a week or so.

Communism will eliminate the curse of work! Furthermore, there will be communist competition ie people will want to do more for the society in order to gain the respect of others.

Because when the rest of our needs are met, respect is what we desire the most. In capitalism being filthy rich gives you that, in communism it's gained by other means -- by working for the collective.

[chegitz guevara]

There is already enough automation and non-productive work in capitalism, that 75% of work in the United States could be eliminated and the rest shared, with no loss of standard of living. That's a 2 hour work day. I'd rather put in one ten hour day a week, though.

A lot of productive work that creates crap could be eliminated also.

So, what are you gonna do with the rest of your time?

1bqMY82xzWo

[redtex]

Lazy people who don't want to work in a communist society will ruin it. What is your response to the "lolz communism is st00pid!!!" people who bring this up?

I would respond that a lot of people who willingly don't work today and get welfare, food stamps, and other etitlements. As they should.

But why don't they work? I think it has a lot to do with the failed education they received, the horrible work conditions capitalism has given us, and the way workers are treated like numbers not human beings with feelings. They feel disenfranchised, being treated like garbage. I don't feel loved by my boss. He isn't my friend at all. He would lay me off in a heartbeat if it was profitable. The only reason he keeps me around is because I make money for him. Screw that!

Now imagine if the means of production were owned by the workers! We would be responsible for our own working conditions, and more people would want to work! And I think we would be so much more productive as workers under better, safer, more human conditions that we would all have everything we wanted in life and that includes the few who wouldn't want to participate.

The "don't work, don't eat" mentallity is not very loving. Maybe we should try to help them, figure out why they don't want to help, maybe it's a misunderstanding. Maybe if they felt loved and appreciated at work things would change. I think we will have plenty to go around anyway and can provide for the few people who don't want to contribute.

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

Lazy people who don't want to work in a communist society will ruin it. What is your response to the "lolz communism is st00pid!!!" people who bring this up?

I think capitalism has a lot to do with people not wanting to work because a lot of the times, it's like what's the point? I do all this work and for what? For shit pay? I'm not going anywhere, I'm tired, I'm hungry, etc. For example, last night, after taking someone home on a road I was somewhat unfamiliar with my cab, my oil light, battery light and ASB light all came on and I was stranded and have spent the majority of my day walking. It makes me want to say fuck it and go into early retirement or become a pirate. I would much rather be lazy than do the work I do because I hate it and it only benefits me in so much as I have a roof over my head, food, water, etc. in other words basic shit.

There really is no motivation or sight of benefit. I think the benefits of Socialism for the worker would be vast and when people see the benefit of their work, they have a substantially better living standard, better working conditions, etc. it would decrease the 'laziness' concerns because as this thread can attest to, most people don't just want to lay about. Even for those that don't want to work there could be reeducation or rehabilitation programs which could help them deal with whatever they are dealing and resolve this disease of 'couchus potatoeitis.' Not to mention under Socialism people would be free to choose vocations that they actually enjoy and would feel fufilled in doing as well. A happy worker is one that will also work hard because he enjoys his work.

[redtex]

There is already enough automation and non-productive work in capitalism, that 75% of work in the United States could be eliminated and the rest shared, with no loss of standard of living. That's a 2 hour work day. I'd rather put in one ten hour day a week, though.

A lot of productive work that creates crap could be eliminated also.

So, what are you gonna do with the rest of your time?

Che posted this while was writing my previous response. Awesome video, and hell yes to the reduced work hours with identical production!

Also we have a lot of wasteful competition, under communism we will be so much more efficient. Right now we have so many different companies competing to make the same products for cheaper and cheaper paying the workers less and less money and how the hell is that efficient?

Plus the posted video made me think that we have a whole class of people who don't work that haven't been talked about! The wealthy capitalists!!! How the hell do they contribute?

Sorry for the butchered grammar, I'm in a hurry because I have to go to work, lol.

[Lanky Wanker]

Also we have a lot of wasteful competition, under communism we will be so much more efficient. Right now we have so many different companies competing to make the same products for cheaper and cheaper paying the workers less and less money and how the hell is that efficient?


Now there's the part business owners don't want us to know about. Primark for example...

[W1N5T0N]

What if there simply isnt a job in your area of interest/expertise??

[redtex]

What if there simply isnt a job in your area of interest/expertise??

Could you give us an example of an interest/expertise that wouldn't be wanted?

[W1N5T0N]

Poetry is highly subjective, and one could argue it has no intrinsic/productive value as such.

Also, what if there is a surplus of a certain work? like, say the steel industry needs 2000 workers, but there are 2500 trained workers wanting the job?

[Lanky Wanker]

Poetry is highly subjective, and one could argue it has no intrinsic/productive value as such.

Also, what if there is a surplus of a certain work? like, say the steel industry needs 2000 workers, but there are 2500 trained workers wanting the job?

Isn't this where shorter work hours come in?

[Commissar Rykov]

Isn't this where shorter work hours come in?
It would as you could lower work hours and hire everyone as it isn't being done for a profit motive. The reality is a Socialist/Anarchist revolution is about giving us more free time and the ability to pursue the things we want to and not have to work hand to mouth everyday. You want to take up art or poetry? Go ahead you aren't going to starve as you pursue your art. Same thing if you want to take up a bunch of other jobs the whole point is to pursue and do what you want. Sure there is collective responsibility but with a overthrow of the Bourgeoisie we can finally do the things we want to do without worrying about not making enough money to survive.

[DeBon]

Ask the lazy bums who hang around Chicken Spot near my school every day. I'm doing my A levels while they're lazing around the streets all day, living off their parents and/or money they get from mugging people.

Society and their environment made them that way. Chances are, their parents didn't care much for their education, and probably let those bums drop out. If they would have say, received a decent education and have stayed off drugs, they might be members of the working force.

[CommieTroll]

In socialism, which is our immediate goal, there will be an incentive to work more, as people will want more than just their basic needs to be met. Even if society provides them with food, a roof over their heads, education, healthcare, etc they will still want fancy clothes, new computers, motorboats, flashy cars, bigger houses etc, right?

Why wouldn't they? And if they work more they will be able to afford more of these things, the luxury articles. The fact that labour will be much more humane and enjoyable as it will be planned and controlled democratically will act as a further incentive to get out of bed in the morning.

If we talk about a communist -- moneyless -- society, that is still quite far away, but when we get there people won't need to work in the sense they do now anymore, and can instead pursue their own interests such as getting educated all their lives, traveling, spend time with hobbies etc.

And how is this possible? Automation will be used to benefit workers instead of forcing them to unemployment and poverty as under capitalism. Most tasks will probably be done automatically (by machine) in a well and democratically planned fashion -- and the rest will be shared as a few hours of community service a week or so.

Communism will eliminate the curse of work! Furthermore, there will be communist competition ie people will want to do more for the society in order to gain the respect of others.

Because when the rest of our needs are met, respect is what we desire the most. In capitalism being filthy rich gives you that, in communism it's gained by other means -- by working for the collective.

What happens when we are exploiting the labor of robots? They'd probably have a robotarian revolution :laugh:

[Q]

Lazy people who don't want to work in a communist society will ruin it. What is your response to the "lolz communism is st00pid!!!" people who bring this up?

I dealt with a variant of this question the other day: "not everyone is good and altruistic, won't bad people ruin communism?"

My answer is that communists don't deal with good or bad per se. The point we make is about collective action and thereby overcoming the individualism and atomisation within capitalist society. The consequences of such alienation where "everyone is waging a war against everyone": egoism, narrow self-interest, asocial behaviour, etc. are overcome by collective action. Only within a collective can we achieve our self-emancipation and the freedom of all is therefore the freedom of one.

Much more nutshelled: Capitalism nurishes everything that is bad within humans, communism does the opposite.

[Lanky Wanker]

Society and their environment made them that way. Chances are, their parents didn't care much for their education, and probably let those bums drop out. If they would have say, received a decent education and have stayed off drugs, they might be members of the working force.

They didn't drop out, they just didn't go to college/sixth form. It is indeed about environment though, as I've seen a silent loner kid turn into one of them at a certain point in high school.

[Tim Cornelis]

There is already enough automation and non-productive work in capitalism, that 75% of work in the United States could be eliminated and the rest shared, with no loss of standard of living.

source?