to Malte AND PINKOS

[Fantomas]

I haven't offended anybody. If giving my point of view is offensive to you Marxixts, then that's the way it is. I've been around long enough to know what Marxixm is all about----and it isn't pretty. Most of you are probably below 30, so that figures the stupidities you Lefties post. And please, don''t try revise History. Stalin was a Marxist, not a Fascist. Only a lying Commie dog would try
to say such a stupid thing. As a matter of fact, Stalin was a good Marxixt. Marxism call for violence and dictatorship in the name of thr "proletariat", and Stalin did that very well. NO BODY WANTS YOUR SHIT IDOLOGY, ONLY FUSTRATED PEOPLE LIKE YOU. NO WONDER YOU MOTHER FUCKERS EVER HARDLY WIN AN ELECTION.

[Nickademus]

oh yeah i forgot how nice you were to me.

not offensive atall

[RedCeltic]

I just can't understand how someone can be so pissed off at a group of people just because they don't agree with what he agrees with. What makes you so angery that you have to antaganize people like this?


(Edited by RedCeltic at 9:23 pm on Oct. 27, 2001)

[reagan lives]

Good question, Celtic, but I doubt you'll get a satisfactory answer from Fantomos.

Maybe you should ask vox.

[Kez]

right thats it, ban Fatman
he is a smelly porka and ive changed my mind,

Fatman if i wud see u in the street id get a hammer and sickle and ram it up ur wide ass

Lovingly Comrade from the UK

[pce]

fantomas is one cool fucker. i like him. don't ban him.

or maybe her...i don't know

[DaNatural]

yea i find it pathetic that fantomas has such a big problem perhaps he wasnt loved as a child. bottom line is he hates individuals like us who are trying to work towards a more equal and just society instead he enjoys a being a blood sucking peice of shit who works hard to exploit others. idiots like you complain about freedom but u dont realize freedom is only freedom in so far as it doesnt take away anothers, that is exactly what capitalists do. fantomas people like u make me sick, if you have read various texts about marxism and have studied socialism/communism and still have resentment for an idea that preaches equality then i hope god takes u off this earth cus you are a hopeless peice of shit. Peace to all the people trying to make a difference.

[madmax]

Quote: from RedCeltic on 8:41 pm on Oct. 27, 2001
I just can't understand how someone can be so pissed off at a group of people just because they don't agree with what he agrees with. What makes you so angery that you have to antaganize people like this?
Are you talking to Fantomas or vox?

[RedCeltic]

[/quote]Are you talking to Fantomas or vox?[/quote]


Hmmm let me ask you this in reply... what does it say at the very top of this forum? does it not say Forum for Che admirers? If Vox was posting is messages on a forum for Reagan admirers well then I suppose he would get booted off now wouldn't he?

[madmax]

Quote: from RedCeltic on 5:15 am on Oct. 28, 2001
If Vox was posting is messages on a forum for Reagan admirers well then I suppose he would get booted off now wouldn't he?And that would be just as ignorant. My point was that your comment could apply to both people, so I was wondering.

[Moskitto]

Quote: from Fantomas on 8:25 pm on Oct. 27, 2001
I haven't offended anybody. If giving my point of view is offensive to you Marxixts, then that's the way it is. I've been around long enough to know what Marxixm is all about----and it isn't pretty. Most of you are probably below 30, so that figures the stupidities you Lefties post. And please, don''t try revise History. Stalin was a Marxist, not a Fascist. Only a lying Commie dog would try
to say such a stupid thing. As a matter of fact, Stalin was a good Marxixt. Marxism call for violence and dictatorship in the name of thr "proletariat", and Stalin did that very well. NO BODY WANTS YOUR SHIT IDOLOGY, ONLY FUSTRATED PEOPLE LIKE YOU. NO WONDER YOU MOTHER FUCKERS EVER HARDLY WIN AN ELECTION.


LOOK YOU FUCKING IDIOT.

PLEASE POINT OUT WHAT POLICIES STALIN ENACTED WHICH WERE COMMUNIST, NOT ONES HE SAID WERE COMMUNIST AND I MIGHT NOT CONSIDER TAKING OVER AMERICA AND KILLING ABOUT 150 MILLION PEOPLE IN THE NAME OF CAPITALISM TO PROVE HOW REALLY STUPID YOU ARE.

I'LL LET THAT DRIP THROUGH YOUR ARMOUR PLATED CRANIUM NOW

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

Right now that's got through we can go on explaining WHY Stalin was a Nazi.

Fact 1- Socialism in one country.

Stalinism believes in Socialism in one country (National Socialism). Why does that sound a little bit like that nice thing Hitler used.

Fact 2- The Purges

Stalin used "Purges" to get rid of political enemies especially communists. Now that sounds a bit like Hitlers policies towards the Communists.

Fact 3- Anti-Semitism

Stalin didn't like the Jews that much. He gave them lower level ration cards, let them starve. Yeah a little bit like Hitlers policies towards the Jews

Fact 4-Dictatorship

Stalin wanted dictatorship. Marxism calls for "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" not "In the name of the Proletariat" Thicko. A Dictatorship of the proletariat is a Democracy because it is run "By the proletariat." If you still can't get it through you Armour Plated Skull look at Chile before Pinochet. Oh wait your government didn't like that because it didn't suit your interests.

And by the way. Communism doesn't call for "Violent Revolution" it only calls for "Revolution." Revolution doesn't have to be violent, there's Industrial Revolution, Intelectual Revolution, Cultural Revolution. There are indeed many types of Revolution not just your stupid twisted ideas of revolution.

[CommieBastard]

well, theres nothing more that can be said about fantomas, all been covered...

but i would just like to reassert the point to madmax/reagen other right-wingers here, since it doesnt seem to have registered; Wheras Fantomas is deliberately trying to antagonise people by coming to a che forum, a forum which he knew would contain opinions opposed to his, Vox has come to a forum in order to discuss ideas with like-minded people, but found instead a bunch of people who are in the WRONG place, i.e. you arent che admirers, you are here merely to antagonise us. And do not bother denying that that is your whole purpose here, because it is crystal clear.

there used to be a message at the beggining of the old forum which said something along the lines of "This is a forum for che admirers, Fascists and other right-wingers FUCK OFF!"
i think malte should put that back...

[Moskitto]

i'm sorry about my last post. I was very angry because i have to deal with that sort of thing every day.

[reagan lives]

Show me where I've ever once slandered Che.

Look, if people's convictions are so weak that they can't stand hearing dissenting viewpoints, then that's their problem and not mine. I come here for discussion, and I'm never inflammatory unless someone else (who will remain nameless) antagonizes me.

"Vox has come to a forum in order to discuss ideas with like-minded people"
That, CommieBastard, is very true. But there's no reason why you or he or anyone else can't deal with disagreement, especially if you are all-righteous and all-knowledgable, as vox certainly believes himself to be.

[Guest]

Reagan lives, but he's gonna die soon!!!! hahaha. What is he 90 years old?

What exactly is it about Reagan that you admire?

[CommieBastard]

Reagan, i must have missed when someone accused you of slandering che, and i sure as hell didnt find it just then, but i didnt spend much time looking...

as for dissenting viewpoints, this is a community of leftists, we are trying to develop ideas and action, and all you do is cause small-minded bickering which prevents any real discussion occuring, you are a destructive influence, and thats all you want to be.
you are a waste of our time.
and no, i do not make any claim to omnicognizance or absolute purity. Thats why i dont have the time to deal with you, so please, fuck off, so i can get on with developing things ffs

[reagan lives]

I'm sure your time is very valuable, Bastard, so I'll try to be brief.
You said that I wasn't a Che admirer. The only way you would know that would be if I had slandered Che on this board. Otherwise it's just an assumption on your part. You know what assumptions do.

And, to the best of my knowledge, I haven't interrupted any kind of constructive work here. I post mainly in a forum that is for "General Political Discussion." I would say to you, Bastard, that closing off the group so it only includes people who agree with you "prevents any real discussion."

[RedCeltic]

ok ok... let's stop with the bickering already... Reagan, this is a very diffrent bb than the one that was here before July. We didn't have people like yourself who have become regular members on that board. If you had seen it, perhaps you would understand what CB ment.

The left is not comprized of people with all the same thinking... in fact it is very fractioned which is quite discouraging. The true purpous of a fourum such as this is to try and bring the diffrent fractions on the far left together. Being that we all come from diffrent nations and from diffrent fractions within the left and far left... we need such a forum in order to learn more about the diffrent fractions of communism, socialism, activism, etc... and what the view are from the left of various nations all over the world. Why do we seem so diverse and scattered? Because we are... we don't all come from the same place nor suscribe to the same ideals... yet are trying to work together.

So... while your posts are helpful in pointing out the conservitive views on things... it doesn't help us in this, as you aren't a leftist.

[CommieBastard]

well dammit redcelt, thats exactly what i was going to say to reagan...

reagan, i ask you this, and would like to think you will give me an honest answer, Are you a Che admirer?

and yes, i remember the good ole days, there is plenty of argument in the left...
plenty, trust me, it got VERY heated at points... and we DO need a place like this in which we can reconcile our differences and discuss our opinions, dissent from the right merely prevents us from discussing the issues essential to the furthering of leftist thought, instead our time is taken up arguing points of right wing concern....
and yes, beleive it or not, i do consider my time valuable, as it is a limited resource.

[AgustoSandino]

I don't know about Reagan, but I can say that I am an admirer of Che. I'll skip over my long personal history of association with Leftist causes, which includes actions that were quite violent in their nature, and explain why despite political tendencies one can admire Ernesto Guevarra.
While Guevarra was an advocate of violent revolution, his qualities as a man of action and principle trancend his political actions. I've read a thread on this site, I don't recall its title, but the topic seemed to be a comparison between Che Guevarra and Jesus. I don't mean to diminish the stature of the 'Son of God', or elevate the stature of Guevarra beyond what he would have probably deemed appropriate, but there are tremendous similarities in character.
Nietszche once called Jesus the 'greatest weapon' of the Priest class in their battle against the Warrior class. We won't define the values of either party here, but simply note that Jesus was a man who preached the values of the Priest class, but did so in the unapolegetic fashion of a 'warrior'. His bravery was so great that he became, according to Nietszche, an icon of the "warrior class" and was instrumental in the defeat of the "warrior ethic."
Now Guevarra can be seen in similar fashion, not so much as a weapon, but as an example of the "warrior class" values that Nietszche defines. Here was a man who gave up the security of a privelaged background for his unflagging believe that he, one man, could change the world. It is that sort of strength of character that makes a man like guevarra admirable, regardless of ones political persuassion. And if you ask reagan I'm sure he'll agree, we didn't stumble upon che-lives because we were looking for leftist forums, but because we were looking to learn more about guevarra, and peoples opinions of him.
We might not agree with Guevarra's goal, but I do hope that the strength of character and 'will to power' that he displayed will continue to live on in humanity, for better or worse.

[Moskitto]

I think Raegan talks about Che as much as I do. As in not much.

[CommieBastard]

I admire what you say of che agusto, and you are in my opinion one of the few respectable non-leftists that post on this site.
You have shown one of the least disruptive contributions, but i cannot say the same of Reagan, and most definately not of Fantomas.

[AgustoSandino]

Its funny you call me a non-leftist because of the views I have expressed on this bb:

1)disdain for the USSR and its satellites, disdain for the old PRC

2)disdain for economic ideas which have been tried and failed to bring anyone out of poverty, in contrast to other ideas which have brought nearly one billion people out of poverty in the PRC and India.

If in order to be a leftist you have to disagree with my positions and in that case admire the communist experiments of this past century and promote economic ideas that have brought misery to billions, then i suppose I am not a leftist. But I will say that from being raised by a member of the MRTA in Peru, once being a card carrying ISO member, volunteering for NADER last year, and being a supporter of the ACLU, I am on your side of the political spectrum. I may not be a leftist as you define it, but I follow what i believe is right, not what others tell me.

[RedCeltic]

I must point out here that one does not have to suscribe to the politics of an individual in order to admire the person. Che is even considered one of the Wild Geese or... Irelands far flung heros that went out to fight other peoples wars. He's listed on a webside about the Wild Geese not because his politial views, but because he had Irish ancestery, and was a revolutionary who fought other people's wars... he deserves that respect.

Here's his profile on that site:

http://www.thewildgeese.com/pages/americas.html

and the most important point made in that profile is this;

Though one may, and many do, disagree with Che's politics, it is hard not to admire a man who puts everything on the line for his beliefs; especially one for whom life could have been so easy and prosperous, not to mention long. Somehow we feel that his one-quarter of west Galway blood goes a long way toward explaining a statement Castro once made when speaking of Che. "It will be difficult to find a man who is his equal. A revolutionary purer than he or more exemplary than he."




(Edited by RedCeltic at 1:57 pm on Oct. 29, 2001)

[gooddoctor]

that's probably the best thing i've ever heard you say agusto.

[CommieBastard]

Agusto, what would make me say you are a non-leftist would be your consistent support for capitalism, and in fact your statement at some point that you are a liberalist.
Now, though I realise in the USA the democrats are considered in the centre of the spectrum, they are in fact, if you look at a true political spectrum, on the centre-right. Roughly equivalent to the element of the UK's Conservative party called the Wets.
A liberal capitalist is in the centre of the spectrum, to be in the left wing you cannot be capitalist.

I myself am anti-Soviet, but pro-Cuban, you see Cuba HAS succeeded in succesfully distributing resources to it's people, if Cuba wasnt communist, with the resources the USA has left it with, the people would have starved to death long ago.
I myself am an Anarchist.
And you are right though, i don't consider you a leftist, because you yourself have done as much as admit to it by saying you are a liberal.

[pce]

okay, let me say this:

agusto and reagan lives have not been disruptive. they have actually discussed, as in said something, waited for a reply and then made well thought our arguements. this is not what fantomas has done. he has not been open to argument, he has just tried to completely put down leftists, furthermore he has made some personal remarks towards nickademus' gender and towards the "young" (whatever that means) people on this bb. this is why people don't like fantomas, not because he is a right-winger. no one seems to understand this.

that being said, i say malte deletes all the threads that deal with banning, censorship, "the destruction of our leftist community," etc as they waste too much space and take attention away from the truly meaningful debates that could be going on. everyone wastes their energy on this crap.

i keep wanting to stop responding to these pointless threads but they piss me off so much, that i must (as michael corleone put it, "just when i thought i was out, they PULL ME BACK IN..." :) )

[RedCeltic]

lol... one of my favorite quotes there PCE... can't truly do it justice typing it out on a bb...

Suposedly Agusto supports the Greens... however I have only heard him say supporting Nader... They have many of the same policies as the Socialist Party USA... however are delusional to think that the cause of enviormantal devestation is anything but capitalism.

Are you truly a member of the Green party Agusto? I'm not quite sure what your poitics are or why you campaiined for Nader. So far you don't seem like any green, or Nader supporter I've ever met.

The Green Party in NY for example supports creating a 'living wage' of $12 an hour... which is an issue SP-USA is in agreement on.

What I'm trying to say Agusto is... while you say your a supporter of Nader... so far you haven't sounded anything like any green I've ever met.

So.. .other than saying you suppoerted Nader... how do you personaly define yourself as a leftist?

By the way... because the Green party of America's policies are fairly close to ours... they are an approved party for cross afilation... Members can run for office as Greens or independents.

(Edited by RedCeltic at 10:13 pm on Oct. 29, 2001)

[RedCeltic]

And... to further make my point on the Green Party...

Here is a quote from David McReynolds' bid for a party office...

"I support the running of Socialist Party candidates where that makes sense, particularly
when such candidates grow out of work in the various movements in which socialists are active, so
that running is seen as a continuation of work they have done, and not as a substitute for such
involvement. I also think there are times when we should work with members of the Green Party. I
am opposed to "running candidates simply to run candidates" - that was done by the Socialist
Labor Party and it is gone. It has been done by the Socialist Workers Party, and it is irrelevant. "


(Edited by RedCeltic at 10:28 pm on Oct. 29, 2001)

[Lefty]

well fantomas, i hope that you become wiser in the future and realize that capitalism has caused billions to live on less than $5 a day. Maybe then you will realize why we support equality.

[RedCeltic]

Ahhh... yes Fantomas... the only one out of the three I never regretted that we banned.

Will Fantomas learn in the future and learn about the inequalities of capitalism? Doubtful... maybe with an incredible leap of faith maybe he will become a moderate fiscal conservative.

[Commisar BOB]

hes an idiot probably a spoilt little prick!