Roman Empire style Fascism?

[Reznov]

So, I have began reading some political analysis for Rome in college, and in it gives a theory that they were Fascist and their military was one of the best in the world because of it. Fascism produced the greatest military units and legions all throughout history.

So, I know that Mussolini idolized the idea of the "Praetorian Guard" and Roman/Italian supremacy like the Roman Empire was.

Was the Roman Empire fascist? What do militarism have to do with Fascism and why is it so important in most Fascist states/governments? And what was the connection between real world example of Mussolini and Roman Empire Fascism, i.e. examples and relations and compare and contrast of the two?

[Geiseric]

I actually think workers armies were the best... The vietcong, the friggen red army which destroyed the nazi army? Sparticus's slave army defeated roman armies larger than itself, and peasent guerillas have time and time again defeated huge armies.

As for rome being fascist, it was as fascist as any other empire back then. They were closer to a U.S. republic corrupt democracy before caesar, but it was always ruled by private intrests even after augustus. Only instead of a corporation, it was slave owners.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Rome wasn't fascist, it was an imperial monarchy.

[Mythbuster]

While it was an imperial monarchy (as thegodlessutopian pointed out) it did run like a fascist state. (Crucifixion, torture, destruction of anyone disagreeing with the emporer).

[ColonelCossack]

Well, the nazi's did use a lot of roman imagery (i think)... but I reckon the guys above nailed it, really.

[Kamos]

While it was an imperial monarchy (as thegodlessutopian pointed out) it did run like a fascist state. (Crucifixion, torture, destruction of anyone disagreeing with the emporer).

Which is not part of the definition of a fascist state.

[Geiseric]

It wasn't advanced enough to be a fascist state, it was a state ruled by the slaveholders who ruled over the plebians.

[Commissar Rykov]

How the hell could it be fascist since fascism wasn't even an ideology yet? Some kind of Time Warp Paradox? You can't apply Modern Ideologies towards ancient regimes as they have no way to fit into it since they lack the material conditions, knowledge, and any kind of contemporary thought with the idea.

[bcbm]

Was the Roman Empire fascist?

no


What do militarism have to do with Fascism and why is it so important in most Fascist states/governments?


War alone keys up all human energies to their maximum tension and sets the seal of nobility on those peoples who have the courage to face it. All other tests are substitutes which never place a man face to face with himself before the alternative of life or death. . . .

Imperial power, as understood by the Fascist doctrine, is not only territorial, or military, or commercial; it is also spiritual and ethical. An imperial nation, that is to say a nation a which directly or indirectly is a leader of others, can exist without the need of conquering a single square mile of territory. Fascism sees in the imperialistic spirit -- i.e. in the tendency of nations to expand - a manifestation of their vitality. In the op*posite tendency, which would limit their interests to the home country, it sees a symptom of decadence. Peoples who rise or rearise are imperialistic; renunciation is characteristic of dying peoples. The Fascist doctrine is that best suited to the tendencies and feelings of a people which, like the Italian, after lying fallow during centuries of foreign servitude, are now reasserting itself in the world.

But imperialism implies discipline, the coordination of efforts, a deep sense of duty and a spirit of self-sacrifice. This explains many aspects of the practical activity of the regime, and the direction taken by many of the forces of the State, as also the severity which has to be exercised towards those who would oppose this spontaneous and inevitable movement of XXth century Italy by agitating outgrown ideologies of the XIXth century, ideologies rejected wherever great experiments in political and social transfor*mations are being dared.


And what was the connection between real world example of Mussolini and Roman Empire Fascism, i.e. examples and relations and compare and contrast of the two?

the italian fascists borrowed imagery and some concepts from the roman empire, but the roman empire wasn't fascist, if for no other reason than that fascism didn't exist until the 20th century as a reaction to modernism.

[Rooster]

Wait. How well did Mussolini's troops do in the war again?

[Commissar Rykov]

Wait. How well did Mussolini's troops do in the war again?
Pretty damn good. They ran faster than the Germans could fight.

[Red Future]

Sure Nazism produced an effective fighting force with the rearmed Wehrmacht from 1934 and the later development of the Waffen SS from 1939-45.But this hasnt been consistent with Fascist states.Mussolini tried to create a "culture of the soldier" harking back to the days of Roman Military Might.Despite this the Italian army had a poor showing in WW2 (with the exception of ideologically motivated combat units such as the Young Fascists).Vichy France with its own adaptation of Fascism also had a poor record in the War in North Africa.Fascist states have not necessarily been militarily strong.

[Obs]

in before DNZ

[freethinker]

Rome is in many ways the model of cooperate fascism ...
Evolving from a failed Republic- the middle class died in the wars and the conservative party- the opitmaires all but destroyed the republic.

It stagnated as an empire and wasted a great opportunity for mankind

[Geiseric]

The red army was hands down the best army in WW2, they represented the communist nature trotsky put into the red army when he organised it, and the anger towards the west that was built up in the russian people. Best tanks and planes weren't german, they were russian. The red army fought the japanese, the germans, and the rest of the fascists in europe and beat them down. The red army underwent a period of sacrifice unmatched in history by any army in history, and emerged victorious. Not because of stalin, but because of the nature of the soldiers knowing that they're fighting for the ideals of communism, and class war.

[Rafiq]

What an Idealist assertion.

One must first understand why they are asserting "fascist countries had the best militaries". Think about it, the more you do, the more you realize they're talking out of their ass and pretty much oversimplifying the complicated nature of Fascism.

Firstly, Imperial Rome wasn't Fascist. That is out of the question.

Secondly, Militaries prosper not based on Ideology, but on economic growth, of the mode of production.

However there are many exceptions. Discipline, Tactics and Training have everything to do with it.

The Fascist mode of production doesn't necessarily work very well at all. It works better than Neo-Liberalism (However could be described as Ethically worse, I suppose), but only because of the heavy state intervention.

Again, it all depends on the Material conditions manifested.

The user above me's post is viciously Anti-Materialist, though.

The soldiers didn't do well because of Ideas, they did well because of the immense amount of training and discipline they went through, not to mention the anger that drove them (family members dieing) and their strive for survival. Their genetic(not to say they're a different race or species) adaption, or just social adaption in general to the cold and winter played a major part as well.

[Revolutionair]

they represented the communist nature trotsky put into the red army when he organised it


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Die Neue Zeit]

in before DNZ

Wrong period altogether, dude. :glare:


the italian fascists borrowed imagery and some concepts from the roman empire, but the roman empire wasn't fascist, if for no other reason than that fascism didn't exist until the 20th century as a reaction to modernism.

This, really. Not every militaristic society is fascist.

[freethinker]

Toward the end of it's life the empire became very bigoted to non Latins..

[Red Future]

Toward the end of it's life the empire became very bigoted to non Latins..

Didn't the Emperor Carcalla grant citizenship to the non Latin peoples in the 300s though?.

[freethinker]

It was simply a tax scheme and actually it happened in the early 200's