Eurozone in trouble

[RGacky3]

What do you guys think? Is the eurozone gonna come out of this clean? Is Greece gonna screw over the Eurozone? Are we gonna get another financial crash based on obligations being flushed?

Obviously there is no way Greece is honoring its obligations, But they've been talking about issueing eurozone bonds to keep the banks afloat.

(I personally have placed both long and short bets on financials, so either they gotta crash or rally up for me to come out good)

[Ned Kelly]

'Is Greece gonna screw over the Eurozone'...

are you suggesting the government should completely shaft the working class even further?

[RGacky3]

Absolutely not, what they should do is just default and restructure their own economy.

[thriller]

Hopefully. I think the workers of Greece have been an inspiration to workers all over the world in terms of direct action and standing up for themselves. The more shit that gets piled on, I believe, gets us closer to revolution. I just wish people in the US knew how to protest like people in Europe and the Middle East do.

[RichardAWilson]

The European Central Bank needs to begin purchasing those bonds to push down long-term yields.

[Smyg]

Hopefully the Eurozone falls.

[RGacky3]

Hopefully the Eurozone falls.


If the Eurozone collapses economically its not gonna hurt anyone but the working class, don't be stupid.



The European Central Bank needs to begin purchasing those bonds to push down long-term yields.


Do you think that will do anything other than boost Europes banks to health again? That won't help the crux of the situation at all imo. Are you talking about buying greek bonds? Or are you talking about the issuing of eurobonds?

[Smyg]

I'll be as much of an idiot as I want, thank you very much.

[Rusty Shackleford]

If the Eurozone collapses economically its not gonna hurt anyone but the working class, don't be stupid.



Thats like saying if the Russian Empire was defeated in WWI that it would hurt Russian workers.

If the Eurozone fails, there is a pretty good chance of working class militancy rising.

[RGacky3]

Thats like saying if the Russian Empire was defeated in WWI that it would hurt Russian workers.


Probably would have been bad if Germany took over.


If the Eurozone fails, there is a pretty good chance of working class militancy rising.

THere is no guarantee for that, there is juts as much a chance that the extreme right wing tries to take advantage of it.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Probably would have been bad if Germany took over.
Military defeat of imperialism can create revanchism. And occupation can be terrible. But, resistance always comes into existence in such scenarios. Am I advocating countries get occupied by others to help revolutions? No.

My point is that the opposite is worse for a working class revolutionary movement. If victory were had, it may have stoked patriotism like defeat, but no real interest in resistance because, well, they won.



THere is no guarantee for that, there is juts as much a chance that the extreme right wing tries to take advantage of it.
I wont deny that. Seeing some bourgeois pan-European effort fail will probably stoke the flames of nationalism like no other.

[Bud Struggle]

The Greeks have been living too well with a minimum of productivity. The Germans retire at 67, the Greeks at 55. Lots don't pay their taxes. It's no different than the stuff Thomas Mann wrote about 100 years ago. The people of Southern Europe just aren't as productive as the people in Northern Europe.

They actually need to produce something to support their lifestyle--or get lucky like the people in the Middle East and find oil. In most respects Greece is a third world country. They really don't beling in Europe. (Of course you could also say that about Mississippi in the USA.)

They do have a good Proletarian class, to be sure--but they are missing a good Bourgeois class to put them to work.

[RichardAWilson]

In the more immediate term, the European Central Bank needs to begin lending by purchasing Greek, Portuguese, Irish and Italian Bonds (I.e. a European version of America's Quantitative Easing).

[RGacky3]

The Greeks have been living too well with a minimum of productivity. The Germans retire at 67, the Greeks at 55. Lots don't pay their taxes. It's no different than the stuff Thomas Mann wrote about 100 years ago. The people of Southern Europe just aren't as productive as the people in Northern Europe.


Had Greece not bought an assload of bonds from banks thats were sercuritizing bonds and insurnaces on those bonds they would'nt be in the position they are today.

The Greek economy was very productive and grew quickly, problem is they did'nt want to tax anything and they did'nt have any socialized productive industry, so the only money came from borrowing, and when you mix that public debt with being screwed over by financial institutions you have a problem.

But you also have insane levels of corruption exhasberatin the problem.


They actually need to produce something to support their lifestyle--or get lucky like the people in the Middle East and find oil. In most respects Greece is a third world country. They really don't beling in Europe. (Of course you could also say that about Mississippi in the USA.)


Greece does produce they were not ad productive as say the US, but they were productive, Greece has a strong tourism and shipping industry, productivity I don't think was the problem, actually commodity production ... well they don't do that in the US either.


They do have a good Proletarian class, to be sure--but they are missing a good Bourgeois class to put them to work.

No they arn't, the Bourgeois class did put them to work, took advantage of the system, then bailed out, no one needs the bourgeois class, we need their capital.


But, resistance always comes into existence in such scenarios. Am I advocating countries get occupied by others to help revolutions? No.


Some of the strongest socail movements grew out of strong economies, I don't think there is any connection between economic collapse and worker militancy.



In the more immediate term, the European Central Bank needs to begin lending by purchasing Greek, Portuguese, Irish and Italian Bonds (I.e. a European version of America's Quantitative Easing).


Thats nothing more than a shot in the arm imo, Greece needs first and formost to repudiate debt that comes from Goldman sachs and their mortgage bond scheme, then they need to chase down tax evaders. THen they need to nationalize the banks and raise taxes.

Iceland did it right, they took over the banks, repudiated the debt and restructured, obviously Greeces problem is different, its much more public debt, but the same attitude should be in place.

The EU, especially germany really does'nt want to take the hit for this, and I don't blame them.