Aristotle Says...

[ExUnoDisceOmnes]

"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society."

Thoughts?

[Commissar Rykov]

I have never come across this in any work of Aristotle do you know where it comes from? I believe the consensus has been that this was coined by White Nationalists in order to justify bigotry hence the inclusion of tolerance.

[ExUnoDisceOmnes]

I have never come across this in any work of Aristotle do you know where it comes from? I believe the consensus has been that this was coined by White Nationalists in order to justify bigotry hence the inclusion of tolerance.
I don't know, I just saw it on the internet and was surprised by it... do you have any source on it being faked?

[Commissar Rykov]

I don't know, I just saw it on the internet and was surprised by it... do you have any source on it being faked?
Other then I just searched various academic databases and nothing came up? No but it stinks of fakery and was obviously never written by Aristotle. Hell it seems it wasn't written by anyone who has published anything so thus it must have come from the net.

[ExUnoDisceOmnes]

Other then I just searched various academic databases and nothing came up? No but it stinks of fakery and was obviously never written by Aristotle. Hell it seems it wasn't written by anyone who has published anything so thus it must have come from the net.
Thanks, I suspected as much... figured I'd get your opinions.

[Nox]

It's important to remember that back in his day, slavery was the norm.

If he were alive today I'm sure he would think very differently.

[Commissar Rykov]

Thanks, I suspected as much... figured I'd get your opinions.
As I said I suspect it is a pro-right wing attempt at a forgery quote hence the inclusion of "tolerance." How exactly would that damage society? As far as I am aware it is the complete lack of tolerance and general empathy that is tearing society as a whole apart. Then again the capitalist system doesn't lend itself to empathy or tolerance as that would get in the way of profits and exploitation.

[Rafiq]

Zizek has similar opinions on tolerance. Maybe there's more to it than we expect? After all, isn't that what philosophy is all about anyway?

[Desperado]

After all, isn't that what philosophy is all about anyway?

What, intolerance?

[Rafiq]

What, intolerance?



No, taking a word(or anything) that we all know and finding a deeper meaning in it.

[Desperado]

Apologies

[Meridian]

No, taking a word(or anything) that we all know and finding a deeper meaning in it.
Could it really be hidden within the word "tolerance" whether or not it is the last virtue of a dying society?

If we know a word, then we know the extent of its general use and functioning. Unless, of course, we hold the belief that language isn't made by humans and has existence beyond the words passing out of our mouths into ears, or the written text as it is written and read by a human.

[Iron Felix]

Racism is not a matter tolerance. Rafiq mentioned Zizek, I'm glad he's known here as well.

[Delenda Carthago]

I searched it in greek, I found nothing like that being said by Aristotle. The quote is made by "Dr William Pierce", whoever dude is.

edit: BTW that shit was on a conspiracy theory antisemi website. If that tells us anything...

[eric922]

I searched it in greek, I found nothing like that being said by Aristotle. The quote is made by "Dr William Pierce", whoever dude is.

edit: BTW that shit was on a conspiracy theory antisemi website. If that tells us anything...
This is the only thing I can find on Wikipedia under "Dr William Pierece"." It says he was a physicist and leader of the white separatist national alliance. Here's the link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Luther_Pierce

[o well this is ok I guess]

It's important to remember that back in his day, slavery was the norm.

If he were alive today I'm sure he would think very differently. He'd still be a smug asshole and you know it.

[Dave B]

I think Aristotle thought that virtue was to be found, as a kind of dialetical viewpoint, in the central or middle position between opposite and negating drives, impulses or human nature.

Eg in the example that he used with recklessness and cowardice.

Both are crap and therefore the optimum lies in between.

You could therefore just about interpolate from that ‘I suppose’ that that ‘apathy and tolerance’ were a central and an average position and therefore virtue.

I think it was in book 2 of Nicomachean Ethics.

I am not familiar with the quote provided that is probably bollocks, as far as I am concerned if a quote doesn’t have a any kind of reference it is more than likely rubbish


God I must be bored!

[Nox]

He'd still be a smug asshole and you know it.

Don't be too sure of that; if you were born 2500 years ago, you'd probably support slavery.

[ericksolvi]

It seems to be getting easier and easier to convince people to believe lies. I have a "Friend" on another site who seems to get all his "news" from you tube, and always believes whatever he finds to be absolutely true, then he sends out the link and tries to get others to watch it. I've watched a few of them and get the instant sense that it's all bullshit, then upon research my sense is confirmed. Is it just stupidity, or disilushionement, or are people willfully suspending their disbelief? It's like 9/11 conspiracy theorists, the odds that the government could pull of such a massive operation without leaving irrefutable proof are practically nil, and yet people persist in the false belief.

[o well this is ok I guess]

Don't be too sure of that; if you were born 2500 years ago, you'd probably support slavery. Yes, but even without slaves one can still take an insufferably aristocratic view of any era.

[Geiseric]

He means tolerance of injustice and apathy towards towards social problems, i'm sure. I don't think he meant tolerance of other races. Doesn't seem to be an overt racist, however I do know that there was a sense of greek cheuvanism at the time towards "barbarian hordes" of persia, in the same sense as there was a sense of roman cheuvanism of britons and germanics. They were all on drugs though during political debates and formal meetings, so really who cares. Interpret it the way you want to.

[Zostrianos]

"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society."


I've seen this quote, and variants of it, countless times, preponderantly among conservative and evangelical Christians (big surprise :tongue_smilie:). I've seen it more often as "Tolerance is the last virtue of a depraved society." Apparently it was Mel Gibson's father who came up with it:

http://www.confederatecolonel.com/2010/08/tolerance-the-last-virtue-of-a-depraved-society/

It stems from the typical rabid intolerance right wing Christians hold toward everything but themselves. If it were up to them, atheists and non christians would be converted at gunpoint, and there would be massive book burnings in the streets. I doubt it originated with Aristotle (I could be wrong, but I doubt it)