New World Order

[Die Rote Fahne]

Why are people afraid of this idea? Why do they think it's so serious a threat? Why do they think it will happen?

Can someone fill me in here? I'm discussing it with someone who uses examples such as the NAU and euro, and calls for a US of Europe as evidence of this "threat"?

How do I prove to this guy he's wrong?

How do I approach this, not only from a logistical level, but with Marxian analysis...it's one topic I'm very unfamiliar with, NWO that is.

[GPDP]

It's xenophobia, plain and simple.

[CleverTitle]

How do I approach this, not only from a logistical level, but with Marxian analysis...it's one topic I'm very unfamiliar with, NWO that is.
It's hard to counter irrational garbage with a rational, intelligent response.

[o well this is ok I guess]

Well, the first question should definitely be this:

What exactly is so threatening about "New World Order"?

[TheWhiteStreak]

Hmm...well it might be religion. I've heard religious people I know talk about the New World Order and how evil it is. I'm not religious though so I wouldn't really know.

[Tomhet]

Communism is a new world order, as Capitalism was..

[Die Rote Fahne]

NWO in this sense would be a one world government.

[Astarte]

There are a few questions that should be asked to first, and it depends on which angle the NWO conspiracy theory believer is coming from. Essentially, you have to cater to their angle. For instance if it was a fundamentalist Christian type who feared the NWO as wanting to create a one world religion, I would expound upon the virtues of such a thing if it were to actually occur. This will probably cause a real clash - but you are getting to the root of what they fear in the "NWO" - some kind of atheistic, or anti-christian global religion or authority. If you're not going for shock value just assure them it would remain a secular society, with no state imposed atheism.

Sometimes the NWO conspiracy theorist also will say that the NWO is a "Communist Plot". These types are usually Libertarian, so essentially just talk about some great achievements of the planned economy throughout history - bring up Stalin and the 5 year plans for extra bonus points.

The last major NWO conspiracy theorist type is anti-corporate/anti-capitalist - with these you essentially have to convince them how illogical a wide spread "Illuminati-type" conspiracy is - or sometimes - with these types you can also point out the progressive historical role of the Freemasons in the bourgeois revolutions, but also at the same time explain the minimal real role in power politics they actually play today.

[socialistjustin]

Not sure how you can convince any conspiracy theorist their wrong. If you present facts then they will say that its falsified information put forth by some "smoking man" people or some shit like that.


I would also force them to answer the question what is so bad about it like others have said.

[Zav]

People equate the NWO with Totalitarianism. What is there to not be afraid about? None but the silly fascists want it.
People think it is a threat and think they see it coming because they are mistaking late-stage Capitalism and Statism for an end to the 'freedoms' granted to them by those institutions.

[Agent Equality]

ILLUMINATUS!!!!! :scared:

[socialistjustin]

People equate the NWO with Totalitarianism. What is there to not be afraid about? None but the silly fascists want it.
People think it is a threat and think they see it coming because they are mistaking late-stage Capitalism and Statism for an end to the 'freedoms' granted to them by those institutions.


Of course nobody wants that, but if people are talking about a one world government then thats nothing to be afraid about. Die Rote Fahne said thats what they were talking about which isnt a bad thing.

[Revolution starts with U]

I would relate to them that, barring world wide economic collapse, there WILL BE a one world government. They need to decide whether their time is better spent fighting the inevitable, or fighting for the general populace to take control of it.

[thefinalmarch]

The bourgeoisie are not a sinister secret group, but rather people who are unified by certain economic classifications. For example, we could conclude that dogs are unified by common characteristics of being dogs, without all dogs necessarily needing to be a part of some kind of sinister conspiracy.

In general, the beliefs here are that conspiracy theories, namely antisemitism and NWO-Illuminati stuff are caused by idealist notions. My own belief about these theories is that people feel uncertain and are afraid, and in order to make the world understandable and be able to direct their frustrations, they reduce the causes of all their problems down to a secretive evil cabal controlling all things evil. People seems to prefer to have a god, even if that god is malevolent.
.

[Jimmie Higgins]

My own belief about these theories is that people feel uncertain and are afraidYes, and from alienation in a general sense - not from fellow people or in a Marxist economic sense necessarily. I think part of it is a recognition that the functioning of things in society is totally out of your hands and the hands of the population even. The dissonance of the idealist view of society on the one hand and a recognition that things don't work as they are stated to work on the other allows some of these conspiracy theories to take root IMO.

It also requires no action on the part of the believer. It promotes an idealist "solution" in which "educating people" about the conspiracy is the only action needed. On the part of the theorists, it's useful for demagogues because they can pray on this confusion and alienation: "there's a shadow-y conspiracy, the sheeple can't see it, but I have the key! Follow me and I can tell you the real story."

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

If there really was a supremely powerful and competent cabal running everything, then why does the world look like it's being run by complete fucking idiots?

Oh wait, that's all part of their plan. :rolleyes:

Fucking hell I hate conspiracy theories. They're the ultimate kind of unfalsifiable hypothesis, and yet few people seem to realise that this does not mean it is true.

[Jimmie Higgins]

We need a de-programing conspiracy:

Conspiracy theories are a sinister plot to distract people and make them feel that they can not change things. Every year, the Illuminati gather in the Bohemian Grove secret bunker to design devious new conspiracy theories as red herrings to hoodwink the public.

[Cork Socialist]

You can't prove conspiracy theorists wrong, If you present info and facts your "part of the conspiracy" or your believing the lies!. Also any experts that try to disprove the theory they are also "part of the conspiracy".

[Hexen]

You can't prove conspiracy theorists wrong, If you present info and facts your "part of the conspiracy" or your believing the lies!. Also any experts that try to disprove the theory they are also "part of the conspiracy".

Get's to show paranoid conspiracy theorists really are till the point of insanity. Perhaps a perfect example of Psychosis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis) perhaps? Or maybe they really want to believe those conspiracy theories mainly because they grew up being told that they lived in a democracy but later on in their lives it becomes more apparent that is not the case and they have no control over everything ("Something's not right with our Government which I thought we were a democracy") which instead of seeing the main root of the problem which is Capitalism, they instead believe those conspiracy theories in a delusion that "It's not like it's used to be like how founding fathers set it up". Of course another reason being that they also have agenda which these conspiracy theories come from right wing Ayn Randriod libertarians.