Anyone here live the vegan lifestyle?

[Le Libérer]

A few of my friends have stopped eating meat, fish, and dairy. One of the benefits they immediately have experienced is weight loss. I was on my way grocery shopping, when a documentary Forks over Knives was on the TV. I sat there and watched it and decided not to buy any meat this time around. Its available on netflix and it made some very convincing points on why we shouldnt eat animal protein.

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[StarCityPartisan]

I have a completely vegan diet. As far as health benefits, I have much more energy than when I at meat, I gain muscle rather than fat, and my mind actually seems to function a little better (increased memory, faster responses in debate, general mood improvement) also if one buys organic from small farmers it avoids buying from super farms or big corporations. I know we want to change means of production rather than consumption, but a more sustainable life and healthier working class makes the difficult task of managing a socialist society much easier when the time comes. Also I have opportunities to discuss Marxism with the local small farm owners. Many of them are very receptive to communist principles. All in all I say its a great decision for anyone.

[Inti]

I did for a while. First I started out vegetarian for 3 years, then a vegan friend swayed me over to the dark side. I was a vegan for one year, then I couldn't take it anymore and decided to eat vegetables and meat alike, and feel good about it:)

[Sasha]

Used to be a very strict vegetarian with, courtesy of almost all vegan housemates for a few years an mostly vegan lifestyle. Vegetarian was fine for me, vegan gave me serious healthproblems (if you are a lazy cook dont start with it, even my highly skilled, working in vegan restaurants friends need regular B12 injections.
also, don't mindlessly swap all meat and dairy you now consume with soy, to much soy can lead to serious hormonal imbalances.
living vegan is hard work
since a few years, after my burnout, I switched to an vegetarian at home diet, ie I only eat meat if im eating out or on my work. so this is tops 3 nights a week. I find this a very good balance.

[Le Libérer]

I bought a juicer yesterday, and I have been wanting to juice for a while. I still plan to have yogurt and cottage cheese in my diet, as well as fish. So I dont see myself going competely raw. I have maintained a raw diet a couple days a week for a few months though.

[Sasha]

That sounds already a lot healthier than vegan. If you are in this for health reasons you should consider including some biological freerange chicken breast or lamb once in a while, make it something for special occasions.

[Sasha]

and yeah, staying the fuck away from US fat laced with hormones meat is something very healthy.
cut the bioindustry out of your life completely, then slowely experiment with how much animal protein you can get cut from your diet until it goes from an positive into a negative

[black_tar_heroin]

Nope.

I only started getting healthy once I started eating meat, fish and dairy products.

I can't fathom my diet without them. Frankly, if weight loss is the agenda, then abandoning these sources which are so rich in the essentials we need (calcium, iron, protein, fats, omega 3, a handful of vitamins) is simply not the way to go. The formula is simply to consume less calories than your body requires. And the only thing which is needed for that is an accurate log of what you consume and the will to change your lifestyle.

[thriller]

My sister went vegan for a long time. She lost a lot of weight (maybe more than she should have) but seemed to like it a lot. I am not vegan or vegetarian. I eat local meat and local dairy products (Wisconsin baby!) and exercise regularly, and feel pretty good, health wise. If you want to go veggie, I'd say give it a try, but going from meat and dairy consumption to completely vegan diet may cause some illness (stomach ache, headache) at first, so maybe ease into it. My mom has been a veggie for 15 years now and she likes it a lot. But if she ends up eating meat accidentally (chicken broth or something) she gets pretty sick, so you will have to look closely when/if you are at a restaurant.

[praxis1966]

Nope.

I only started getting healthy once I started eating meat, fish and dairy products.

If that's the case, then you probably hadn't properly educated yourself on vegetarianism/veganism. I hear this complaint all the time and it generally comes from people who made a rash decision, jumping into vegetarianism or veganism without doing appropriate research or consulting a physician. Considering that when I was in high school I was a soccer player who almost never played less than the full 90 minutes, ran a 5 minute mile when I was "out of shape," and could dunk a regulation basketball goal at the height of 5'6" all while on a strict vegetarian diet (which I'd been on since conception) and with a congenital heart defect, I think it's pretty possible to be healthy without meat and fish at the very least... Probably dairy as well.


I can't fathom my diet without them. Frankly, if weight loss is the agenda, then abandoning these sources which are so rich in the essentials we need (calcium, iron, protein, fats, omega 3, a handful of vitamins) is simply not the way to go. The formula is simply to consume less calories than your body requires. And the only thing which is needed for that is an accurate log of what you consume and the will to change your lifestyle.

First of all, Forks Over Knives deals with general health and well being AFAIK, so I doubt weight loss is the OP's prime motivation. Second of all, it's entirely possible to get all the nutrients you need from non-animal sources just like it's possible for someone who actually eats animal products to suffer deficiencies in one or more of the nutrients you listed.

[Nox]

I live a perfectly healthy life, and I eat meat like there's no tomorrow.

I think it's a load of rubbish that being a vegan makes you more healthy, the effects are all psychological.

[black_tar_heroin]

Eh, I don't mean to say I was eating no meat, I meant to say I was eating very little, certainly less than I need now with the exercise I do. Before I would eat around 30-40 grams protein a day, at most. Now I eat at least 200 grams. Before I could barely squat 20 kg, now I squat my weight and above. And I guess it all depends on what you define as 'healthy.' I'm guessing that you define someone who can run a 5 minute as 'healthy' or someone who can dunk a basketball at your height. That's great, but that's your criteria. To me, those things aren't as pertinent.

Secondly, I wasn't questioning whether or not it is healthy to have a vegan diet, I was responding with a grasp of my personal circumstances. A vegan diet may be great for someone, but I'd find it very difficult to achieve what I personally want for my body with such a diet.

In 100 grams of chicken there's about 30 grams of protein. In tofu there's 8. That's 2.5 kg of tofu to eat the equivalent protein in 660 grams of chicken.

I know which one I'd rather be eating.


Second of all, it's entirely possible to get all the nutrients you need from non-animal sources I'm somewhat skeptical. If you're not eating fish nor taking fish oil then where are you getting Eicsapentaenoic acid from? Sure, you can consume flaxseed but your body then has to convert alpha-linolenic acid into EPA, which is less efficient then from taking it from the richest source directly (oily fish). Numerous studies have shown the impact of a lack of EPA on the brain, and the improvement in mental health from subsequently increasing the amount we consume. Even psycho mentioned above hardcore vegans having to get B12 shots.


just like it's possible for someone who actually eats animal products to suffer
deficiencies in one or more of the nutrients you listed. Sure, I was a person who consumed animal product and did suffer deficiencies of the nutrients listed. Solution?

I ate more.

[socialistjustin]

I was vegan for awhile and found it to be a major pain in the ass. Eating french fries while watching friends chow down on some Double Cheeseburgers blew. It is also expensive unless you feel like cooking .

I did feel healthier and happier and I actually prefer many vegan products to normal products, but I am too lazy and like eating out to go back to being vegan.

[Desperado]

One of the benefits they immediately have experienced is weight loss.

This however was my problem - I was vegetarian for five years but found it impossible to gain weight. I intend to become a vegetarian again, and even perhaps give up dairy when I become my own cook at uni.

I certainly did have more energy when I was vegetarian, or rather pescetarian (I compared my gym progress before and after), though I was never able to eat as much.

Edit: My Firefox dictionary attempts to correct "pescetarian" for "proletarian" :D

[Sasha]

I was vegan for awhile and found it to be a major pain in the ass. Eating french fries while watching friends chow down on some Double Cheeseburgers blew.

well thats one of the major problem i have encountered among "lifestyle" vegans, while you can reasonably long live of an diet of mostly cheeseburgers etc, living of mostly french fries and potato chips will get you into malnutrition trouble really fast.
again, veganism is hard work and not necessarily cheap either


This however was my problem - I was vegetarian for five years but found it impossible to gain weight.

you can can gain enough weight if you take regular pure-soy-protein shakes, but eating massive amounts of soy does up your estrogen over time which in turn messes with your testosterone levels etc.

[Summerspeaker]

Before I would eat around 30-40 grams protein a day, at most. Now I eat at least 200 grams.

That's really quite a bit and almost certainly more than you need (http://www.pcrm.org/search/?cid=251) according to nutritionists.


again, veganism is hard work and not necessarily cheap either

It's free for me, thanks to the food donation networks in town and my position in them.

I agree that folks shouldn't go completely vegan simply for health.

[black_tar_heroin]

That's really quite a bit and almost certainly more than you need (http://www.pcrm.org/search/?cid=251) according to nutritionists.Hi,

its actually not a lot, and its pretty modest to what most weight-lifters consume (some recommend up to 2 grams per pound of body-weight). The article which you cited is the recommended daily dosage for your average sedentary adult. When an increase in lean body mass is the desired outcome high-protein diets are appropriate to develop muscle as well as maintain it...

[PhoenixAsh]

Nutritionists generally know jack shit about food when it comes to powerlifting/bodybuilding diets.

And that calculation in that link is absolute nonsense. It does not factor in your height, lean body mass (excluding skeleton, fat) and does not take into account your activity level, sex and age. As completely useless as BMI calculations go. A person who uses his muscles extensively needs at least between 1-2 grams per kilogram of weight in protein simply tot sustain, repair and fascilitate growth. Especially since the absorption factor of protein is somewhere around 60% if its unrefined.

High carb diets have a detrimental effect on insuline levels. Something which has been observed not only in modern times in which regular diets consist more and more of carbohydrates. But which was also observed throughout the ages in bone finds and anthropological studies or remains. High carb diets show more deformities and more malfunctions in growth and development. So thats not healthy either.

A balanced diet is the best healthy option for most people. With 50% of calories from carbs, 40% from protein, 10% from fat.

[CommunityBeliever]

I follow the vegan lifestyle. I strongly oppose the farming of domesticated animals for animal products such as meat, eggs, diary, leather, ivory, etc, because growing an animal for these products comes at a great cost to our resources, the environment, etc, and we have so (http://invitromeat.org/) many (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_fur) alternatives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soy_milk) in an advance industrial society.

However, I am pragmatic about this. I do not oppose the ancient hunter-gatherers who got their meat from hunting, because besides the fact they got a lot of exercise doing it, when they hunted they actually needed to do it for their survival or their health because missing something important called agriculture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture).

If capitalism hypothetically destroyed our civilisation, e.g with a worldwide EMP destroying all our technology, this would send us back to an uncivilised hunter-gatherer society. In this case then meat/animal-product consumption would make rational sense again, and I would proceed to abandon the vegan lifestyle.

I also don't oppose all animal testing, because that might actually have some tangible benefit to society, unlike animal farming.

[praxis1966]

Eh, I don't mean to say I was eating no meat, I meant to say I was eating very little, certainly less than I need now with the exercise I do. Before I would eat around 30-40 grams protein a day, at most. Now I eat at least 200 grams. Before I could barely squat 20 kg, now I squat my weight and above.

Meh I get plenty of protein. That's actually the largest misconception about a vegetarian or vegan diet. The most difficult thing to get is iron because non-heme iron is harder for the body to absorb. Taking a simple vitamin C supplement or upping your citrus intake helps overcome this, though.


And I guess it all depends on what you define as 'healthy.' I'm guessing that you define someone who can run a 5 minute as 'healthy' or someone who can dunk a basketball at your height. That's great, but that's your criteria. To me, those things aren't as pertinent.

For me, it was generally always about athletic performance back then. Now that I'm older and that doesn't matter so much, it's really just about being healthy, ie living longer. Admittedly, I've been kinda lax in that department lately, but I think the primary place that I've fallen down is in eating too many processed foods which I think is making my sodium levels too high (though I can't be sure because I haven't been properly tested for it).


Secondly, I wasn't questioning whether or not it is healthy to have a vegan diet, I was responding with a grasp of my personal circumstances. A vegan diet may be great for someone, but I'd find it very difficult to achieve what I personally want for my body with such a diet.

Which I'm assuming given your referencing of it that you're a power lifter. The truth is that you probably don't need as much protein as you think you do... In fact, over-consumption of protein can actually lead to health problems.

http://www.pcrm.org/search/?cid=132


In 100 grams of chicken there's about 30 grams of protein. In tofu there's 8. That's 2.5 kg of tofu to eat the equivalent protein in 660 grams of chicken.

I know which one I'd rather be eating.

Ever hear of a beans and nuts, bro? Tofu isn't the only source of protein for vegans. Besides, I eat dairy and eggs. You don't have to eat a crapload of tofu to get protein, you just need to combine a couple of these things in one meal and you're done.


I'm somewhat skeptical. If you're not eating fish nor taking fish oil then where are you getting Eicsapentaenoic acid from? Sure, you can consume flaxseed but your body then has to convert alpha-linolenic acid into EPA, which is less efficient then from taking it from the richest source directly (oily fish). Numerous studies have shown the impact of a lack of EPA on the brain, and the improvement in mental health from subsequently increasing the amount we consume. Even psycho mentioned above hardcore vegans having to get B12 shots.

I'm not gonna do your research for you, but there are plenty of places. Various vegetable oils and certain kinds of nuts are pretty high in EPA. As for B12, there are plenty of fortified products out there these days... Although I don't know how readily available they are in Europe (where psycho is). Apart from that, a lot of meat substitutes (which I eat a lot of) have it.


Sure, I was a person who consumed animal product and did suffer deficiencies of the nutrients listed. Solution?

I ate more.

Sure, that's one solution. Or you could pick up a copies of Diet for A Small Planet and The Farm cookbook and educate yourself...

EDIT: I ate a veggie burger with cheese and a side of pasta primavera whilst writing this post and it was delicious.

[black_tar_heroin]

Which I'm assuming given your referencing of it that you're a power lifter. No, numbers don't motivate me, aesthetics do.


The truth is that you probably don't need as much protein as you think you do... In fact, over-consumption of protein can actually lead to health problems.

http://www.pcrm.org/search/?cid=132 A lot of these so-called 'problems' have been debunked by further research. I can't post links, but you can google-search these studies:


Myth #1 “High protein diets are bad for your kidneys”

There is not a single scientific study published in a reputable peer – reviewed journal using healthy adults with normal kidney function that has shown any kidney dysfunction what so ever from a high protein diet. Not one of the studies done with healthy athletes that examined this issue, or other research I have read, has shown any kidney abnormalities at all. For example, a recent study that examined the renal (kidney) function of athletes who follow a high protein diet–that is protein intake well above the US RDA– found no negative effects of a higher protein intake on the kidney function of these athletes.


The study called “Do Regular High Protein Diets Have Potential Health Risks on Kidney Function in Athletes? (International Journal of Sport Nutrition, 10 {1}) examined the kidney function of bodybuilders and other well-trained athletes following a high and medium protein diet.


The athletes underwent a 7-day nutrition record analysis as well as blood sample and urine collection to determine if their high-medium protein intakes affected their kidney function. The study found the athletes had renal clearances of creatinine, urea, albumin, and glomular filtration rates that were within the normal range.


The authors concluded “there were no correlations between protein intake and creatinine clearance, albumin excretion rate, and calcium excretion rate.” Furthermore, animals studies done using high protein diets also fail to show any kidney dysfunction in healthy animals.


One study that looked at the effects of a high protein diet on older dogs (“Effects of aging and dietary protein intake on uninephrectomized geriatric dogs.” Am J Vet Res 1994 Sep;55(9):1282-90) found not only did a high protein diet have no ill effects on the dogs kidneys, the dogs getting the higher protein intakes lived longer! Now don’t forget, in the real world, where millions of athletes have been following high protein diets for decades, there has never been a case of kidney failure in a healthy athlete that was determined to have been caused solely by a high protein diet.
If the high protein diet was indeed putting undo stress on our kidneys, we would have seen many cases of kidney abnormalities, but we don’t nor will we. From a personal perspective as a trainer for many top athletes from various sports, I have known bodybuilders eating considerably more than the RDA recommends (above 600 grams a day) who showed no kidney dysfunction or kidney problems and I personally read the blood tests! Bottom line? Higher than RDA intakes of protein will have absolutely no ill effects on the kidney function of a healthy athlete,
period.


So far, the data continues to support what we in the sports nutrition/bodybuilding field have been saying for decades, higher than RDA intakes of protein are perfectly healthy for athletes and their kidneys. Now of course too much of anything can be harmful and I suppose it’s possible a healthy person could eat enough protein over a long enough period of time to effect kidney function, but it is very unlikely and has yet to be shown in the scientific literature in healthy athletes or “regular” people for that matter.

Myth #2 “High protein diets cause Osteoporosis”

So what about the osteoporosis claim? That’s a bit more complicated but the conclusion is the same. In fact, recent data not only totally debunks this myth, but shows it may be the other way around!
The pathology of osteoporosis involves a combination of many risk factors and physiological variables such as macro nutrient intakes (carbs, proteins, fats), micro nutrient intakes (vitamins, minerals, etc), hormonal profiles, lack of exercise, gender, family history, and a few others.
The theory is that high protein intakes raise the acidity of the blood and the body must use minerals from bone stores to “buffer” the blood and bring the blood acidity down, thus depleting one’s bones of minerals. Though some early studies appeared to show higher protein intakes caused an excretion of calcium, which would ultimately lead to bone loss, recent studies have debunked that assertion and do not support the claim that higher than RDA intakes of protein will lead to bone loss (“Excess dietary protein may not adversely affect bone.” J Nutr 1998 Jun;128(6):1054-7).
Even if there was a clear link between a high protein diet and osteoporosis in all populations (and there is not) athletes have few of the above risk factors as they tend to get plenty of exercise, calories, minerals, vitamins, and have positive hormonal profiles.
Fact of the matter is, studies have shown athletes to have denser bones than sedentary people, there are millions of athletes who follow high protein diets without any signs of premature bone loss, and we don’t have ex athletes who are now older with higher rates of osteoporosis. What about regular people? One prominent researcher did an exhaustive review of the literature called “Optimal Intakes of Protein in the Human Diet” (Millward DJ .Proc Nutr Soc 1999 May;58(2):403-13) and came to some interesting conclusions on the issue. The study outlined an extensive body of recent data showing that high protein diets may in fact be beneficial for reducing blood pressure and stroke mortality. On the matter of bone loss, the review paper concludes “For bone health the established views of risk of high protein intakes are not supported by newly-emerging data, with benefit indicated in the elderly.”
Interestingly, a large body of research is now showing that the elderly may in fact require higher intakes of protein that is currently being recommended (“Increased protein requirements in elderly people: new data and retrospective reassessments.Am J Clin Nutr 1994 Oct;60(4):501-9).
Of course some will tell you that eating meat will increase bone loss, but a recent study 572 women and 388 men between the ages of 55 and 92 years, actually found animal protein consumption was associated with an increase in bone density over vegetable proteins! (Am J Epidemiol 2002;155:636-644.). So how long will it take for the conservative medical/nutritional community to give up on this myth that higher than RDA intakes or protein will make your bones turn into saw dust? I have no idea but clearly it’s untrue.
Myth#3, Meat Causes Cancer.

The belief that meat, in particular red meat, contributes to cancer is, like heart disease, a popular idea that is not supported by the facts. Although it is true that some studies have shown a connection between meat eating and some types of cancer, its important to look at the studies carefully to determine what kind of meat is being discussed, as well as the preparation methods used. Since we only have one word for "meat" in English, it is often difficult to know which "meat" is under discussion in a study unless the authors of the study specifically say so.

The study which began the meat=cancer theory was done by Dr. Ernst Wynder in the 1970s. Wynder claimed that there was a direct, causal connection between animal fat intake and incidence of colon cancer. Actually, his data on "animal fats" were really on vegetable fats. In other words, the meat=cancer theory is based on a phony study.

If one looks closely at the research, however, one quickly sees that it is processed meats like cold cuts and sausages that are usually implicated in cancer causation and not meat per se. Furthermore, cooking methods seem to play a part in whether or not a meat becomes carcinogenic. In other words, it is the added chemicals to the meat and the chosen cooking method that are at fault and not the meat itself.

In the end, although sometimes a connection between meat and cancer is found, the actual mechanism of how it happens has eluded scientists. This means that it is likely that other factors besides meat are playing roles in some cases of cancer. Remember: studies of meat-eating traditional peoples show that they have very little incidence of cancer. This demonstrates that other factors are at work when cancer appears in a modern meat-eating person. It is not scientifically fair to single out one dietary factor in placing blame, while ignoring other more likely candidates.

It should be noted here that Seventh Day Adventists are often studied in population analyses to prove that a vegetarian diet is healthier and is associated with a lower risk for cancer (but see a later paragraph in this section). While it is true that most members of this Christian denomination do not eat meat, they also do not smoke or drink alcohol, coffee or tea, all of which are likely factors in promoting cancer.

The Mormons are a religious group often overlooked in vegetarian studies. Although their Church urges moderation, Mormons do not abstain from meat. As with the Adventists, Mormons also avoid tobacco, alcohol, and caffeine. Despite being meat eaters, a study of Utah Mormons showed they had a 22% lower rate for cancer in general and a 34% lower mortality for colon cancer than the US average. A study of Puerto Ricans, who eat large amounts of fatty pork, nevertheless revealed very low rates of colon and breast cancer. Similar results can be adduced to demonstrate that meat and animal fat consumption do not correlate with cancer. Obviously, other factors are at work.

It is usually claimed that vegetarians have lower cancer rates than meat-eaters, but a 1994 study of vegetarian California Seventh Day Adventists showed that, while they did have lower rates for some cancers (e.g., breast and lung), they had higher rates for several others (Hodgkin's disease, malignant melanoma, brain, skin, uterine, prostate, endometrial, cervical and ovarian), some quite significantly. In that study the authors actually admitted that:

Meat consumption, however, was not associated with a higher [cancer] risk.

And that,

No significant association between breast cancer and a high consumption of animal fats or animal products in general was noted.

Further, it is usually claimed that a diet rich in plant foods like whole grains and legumes will reduce one's risks for cancer, but research going back to the last century demonstrates that carbohydrate-based diets are the prime dietary instigators of cancer, not diets based on minimally processed animal foods

The mainstream health and vegetarian media have done such an effective job of "beef bashing," that most people think there is nothing healthful about meat, especially red meat. In reality, however, animal flesh foods like beef and lamb are excellent sources of a variety of nutrients as any food/nutrient table will show. Nutrients like vitamins A, D, several of the B-complex, essential fatty acids (in small amounts), magnesium, zinc, phosphorous, potassium, iron, taurine, and selenium are abundant in beef, lamb, pork, fish and shellfish, and poultry. Nutritional factors like coenzyme Q10, carnitine, and alpha-lipoic acid are also present. Some of these nutrients are only found in animal foods--plants do not supply them.
Myth#4, "You don't need as much Protein as you think you do"


For those of you who may need a brush up, one review paper on the subject by one of the top researchers in the field (Dr. Peter Lemon) states “…These data suggest that the RDA for those engaged in regular endurance exercise should be about 1.2-1.4 grams of protein/kilogram of body mass (150%-175% of the current RDA) and 1.7 – 1.8 grams of protein/kilogram of body mass per day (212%-225% of the current RDA) for strength exercisers” (“Is increased dietary protein necessary or beneficial for individuals with a physically active life style?” Nutr. Rev. 54:S169-175, 1996).

Another group of researchers in the field of protein metabolism have came to similar conclusions repeatedly (“Evaluation of protein requirements for trained strength athletes.” J. Applied. Phys. 73(5): 1986-1995, 1992.) They found that strength training athletes eating approximately the RDA/RNI for protein showed a decreased whole body protein synthesis (losing muscle jack!) on a protein intake of 0.86 grams per kilogram of bodyweight.
They came to an almost identical conclusion as that of Dr. Lemon in recommending at least 1.76g per kilogram of bodyweight per day for strength training athletes for staying in positive nitrogen balance/increases in whole body protein synthesis.


They concluded “In summary, protein requirements for athletes performing strength training are greater than sedentary individuals and are above the current Canadian and US recommended daily protein intake requirements for young healthy males.”
Ever hear of a beans and nuts, bro? Tofu isn't the only source of protein for vegans. Besides, I eat dairy and eggs. You don't have to eat a crapload of tofu to get protein, you just need to combine a couple of these things in one meal and you're done. Firstly, I'm not your 'bro.' Secondly, its my understanding that vegans don't consume either dairy or eggs. Lastly, its pertinent for my diet to have protein in all 5-6 meals (not just one big meal) to reduce catabolism.


I'm not gonna do your research for you, but there are plenty of places. Various vegetable oils and certain kinds of nuts are pretty high in EPA. Uh... what? Vegetable oil is the LAST place you would find EPA; the whole fucking problem is people consuming far more vegetable oils in the first place and the lack of fish in the typical Western diet. Contrast the high levels of cardiovascular disease (as well as mental health problems) in places where little fish is consumed to places where fish is part of a staple diet. Please, show me what vegetable oils or nuts are high in EPA.


Sure, that's one solution. Or you could pick up a copies of Diet for A Small Planet and The Farm cookbook and educate yourself...I love how vegans/vegetarians can be so sanctimonious about their way of life.

Point is, your diet may work for you. That's great. But don't be so arrogant to assume it works for everyone, because I certainly don't think the same for mine.


EDIT: I ate a veggie burger with cheese and a side of pasta primavera whilst writing this post and it was delicious. I ate a tuna sandwich with cucumber, tomato, cheddar cheese and mayonnaise.

[Summerspeaker]

Nutritionists generally know jack shit about food when it comes to powerlifting/bodybuilding diets.

Or perhaps the reverse. I'm unconvinced anybody really understand nutrition at this point - seriously, it's all so contradictory - but piles of sources suggest the gram-per-lb guideline is excessive even for intense strength training. Personally, I couldn't care less protein these days. I used to worry about it, now I just eat whatever I can scavenge while going for vegetables and avoiding refined carbs as much as possible.

[Le Libérer]

Even though this isnt vegan its fairly healthy. I cooked it for my room mate tonight who has been diagnosed with diabetes.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g17/tmt45z9/organictacos.jpg
The fish (tilapia) was soaked in lemon juice then slow grilled in chili powder, ground black pepper and garlic. Organic whole wheat crispy corn tortillas, dressed with avocado, spinach, plain yogurt, jalepeno peppers, a mixture of cheddar and mozzarella cheese and salsa. The pinto beans were topped with cheese, plain yogurt, peppers, avocado, and salsa. I wrestled with making Spanish brown rice but this was better.
For desert, sugar free angel food cake, fresh pureed strawberries and real whipped cream.

I was trying to use up the diary and tilapia we have. Its going to be pretty tough for me to give it up.

[socialistjustin]

I wish you were my roommate as that looks a helluva lot better than the oven crisp chicken sub I had from Subway.

[Zav]

I'm vegan. I was a lacto-vegetarian for a while before I was vegan, so I didn't notice as dramatic an increase in energy as those who switch directly from carnivorous diets, though it was still quite prominent. I've also lost a lot of excess weight, along with other health benefits.
Here's a link to download Forks over Knives, in case anyone wants to watch it:
http://www.fileserve.com/file/h6sKGeP

EDIT: There is so much conflicting research about vegan diets that one must wonder what percentage of it has been falsified. It seems that most would be falsified against veganism, though doubtless some has been falsified to support it. The food industry has much more motive, and certainly the more means than an organisation like PETA, for example.

[PhoenixAsh]

Or perhaps the reverse. I'm unconvinced anybody really understand nutrition at this point - seriously, it's all so contradictory - but piles of sources suggest the gram-per-lb guideline is excessive even for intense strength training. Personally, I couldn't care less protein these days. I used to worry about it, now I just eat whatever I can scavenge while going for vegetables and avoiding refined carbs as much as possible.

Actually the 1 gram per kilo of body weight has been extensively researched. Especially concerning nitrogen balance. Several studies done indicated that the avarage a body builder would not lose lean body weight on was 1.05 grams/kilo...though some induviduals need a higher amount. Studies also show that depending on age and on stage of development the requirements start of higher than that and can be limited again when muscle increase has plateaud.

I notice a conciderable longer lasting muscle ache in recovery when I eat less than 1 gram of protein than when I eat more. I also have deviated downward in muscle buildup. Though I have yet to test if that is because of the proteine or if it is because of a plateau...but the decline is marked in measurements exactly one week after I started my new diet. So there is bound to be a correlation.

1 gram/kilo is easilly obtainable. Most people, including vegans and vegetarians, will have little trouble eating that.

But I agree with you that there is a whole lot of contradiction out there.

[Summerspeaker]

Actually the 1 gram per kilo of body weight has been extensively researched.

I didn't say anything about the gram-per-kilo guideline. :lol: From what I've seen, reasonable suggestions go as a high as 1.7 grams per kilogram - that's still less than a gram per lb (2.2 grams per kilo).

[PhoenixAsh]

I didn't say anything about the gram-per-kilo guideline. :lol: From what I've seen, reasonable suggestions go as a high as 1.7 grams per kilogram - that's still less than a gram per lb (2.2 grams per kilo).

Ok...neither did I ;-) Hence perhaps the confusion about your post :D

[thriller]

As far as the "that's not healthy look at this study" replies goes, I think everyone is different. Just because one person feel healthy and happy on one particular diet doesn't mean someone else will. It depends on how one lives their life. I do landscaping, and push my physical body to the limit almost everyday. I need a totally different diet than someone who may not be hauling wheel barrels full of rock for 9 hours a day. I think the idea of healthy is
subjective. I think we can all agree tho, that a diet of ALL double cheeseburger and a diet of ALL soy are both bad for someone.


The Workers United Will Never Be Defeated!

[Le Libérer]

Okay Ive been doing this for almost a week. I'm incredibly tired. I can see why there would be a need for B12 shots.

[praxis1966]

Okay Ive been doing this for almost a week. I'm incredibly tired. I can see why there would be a need for B12 shots.

Yeah, I would've recommended that you go through a lacto-vegetarian phase instead of jumping straight into veganism if I weren't so worked up arguing with somebody. Go ahead, say it, "You obsessive doofus." lol

Anyway, like most things, you're generally better off if you make a slower transition. To use an analogy of exercise, you wouldn't go from a sedentary lifestyle to running 5K a day. You have to build slowly toward that in order to give your body time to acclimate.

[Le Libérer]

Yeah, I would've recommended that you go through a lacto-vegetarian phase instead of jumping straight into veganism if I weren't so worked up arguing with somebody. Go ahead, say it, "You obsessive doofus." lol

Anyway, like most things, you're generally better off if you make a slower transition. To use an analogy of exercise, you wouldn't go from a sedentary lifestyle to running 5K a day. You have to build slowly toward that in order to give your body time to acclimate.
Whew. Then dairy, here I come. :)

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

I have an ovo-lacto vegetarian diet which I compromise on special occaisions when I fancy a bit of fish for dinner. I'm incredibly healthy (if I didn't smoke and drink, I'd be Adonis), if you plan it correctly you can get an adequate amount of each nutrient your body requires. Combine it with regular exercize and you're a bastion of good health.

I believe that a person can have a good diet either carnivorous, pesco, vegetarian or vegan as long as they balance it correctly. I've met big, fat vegetarians that eat incredibly unhealthy foods and I've met many meat eaters that are in excellent shape, its all about planning your diet correctly. However, I do feel that a vegetarian diet is the best way to go, using dairy that comes from happy cows and eggs from happy chickens, preferably your own. That way you have a diet which doesn't rely on hurting animals and you also miss out on the problems that meat poses to your body in the long run, and judging by the research in that film, meat really does pose problems to the body.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Carnivorous diets are perfectly healthy as long as you moderate what meat you eat, and how much.

Obviously, free-range chickens are going to be the healthiest, as we all know the shit that goes on in battery-chicken farms, and the same with beef really. Red meat consumption shouldn't top 500g per week, the less the better but you want to have at least 200g per week just to keep your iron levels up.

I stay away from butter, lard etc. completely, it's a useless source of animal fat that will just lead you to an early grave. It's best to get your protein from a mix of animals (i.e. meat) and non-animals sources (nuts!), and your fats from almost completely non-animal sources (extra virgin olive oil).

I've been vegetarian before, briefly, for a month. The health benefits were great and you can eat a lot of nuts, green leaf salads, brown pasta, basmati rice and olive oil. I don't really have an argument against vegetarianism, I just like meat and don't view moderate consumption as unhealthy or unethical.

I realise i'm totally off topic so i'll shut up, as I have nothing to say on veganism, it's the one area of nutrition I know nothing about.:confused:

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Also COTR that looks fucking delicious. I've just been to the gym and now i'm hungry.:crying:

[seobts]

Even though this isnt vegan its fairly healthy. I cooked it for my room mate tonight who has been diagnosed with diabetes.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g17/tmt45z9/organictacos.jpg
The fish (tilapia) was soaked in lemon juice then slow grilled in chili powder, ground black pepper and garlic. Organic whole wheat crispy corn tortillas, dressed with avocado, spinach, plain yogurt, jalepeno peppers, a mixture of cheddar and mozzarella cheese and salsa. The pinto beans were topped with cheese, plain yogurt, peppers, avocado, and salsa. I wrestled with making Spanish brown rice but this was better.
For desert, sugar free angel food cake, fresh pureed strawberries and real whipped cream.

I was trying to use up the diary and tilapia we have. Its going to be pretty tough for me to give it up.
Your food looks so delicious. :blink::blink:
I am a vegetarian one. I like vegetable much because I will have a healthier life and can save the world.