Libya

[SJBarley]

Greetings comrades,
now my question is this - what is the general consensus on colonel gaddafi's rule?

Now obviously I know the different tendencies etc will have a different opinion so please let me know your position on gaddafi along with your alignment (M-L, Anarchist etc)
Furthermore I believe that NATOs actions were criminal not just unjust, the current conflict is not my concern, I was just previously unaware of the situation in Libya (apart from the talks between them and scotland over the lockerbee bomber) and as such I would like to know where the left stands on Libya PRIOR to the "revolution".

Cheers

[Nox]

Libya will be worse off without him; despite all of his flaws, he gave the Libyan people a good quality of life.

That's all I've got to say on the matter.

[Sasha]

The same could be said ahout Franco, mussolini, mubarak, *gasp* hitler or any other halfway capable dictator, completely meaningless statement and an conclusion grasped from thin air

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Libya will be worse off without him; despite all of his flaws, he gave the Libyan people a good quality of life.

That's all I've got to say on the matter.

By what standard? Obviously many Libyans don't agree with that assessment. Say what you will about the rebels but it astounds me that anyone could really think that this guy provided a good standard of living.

[W1N5T0N]

Sure, if you think secret police, torturing of innocents, stealing billions of dollars from your people and funding international terrorism are cornerstones of "the good life".
but we have had this discussion too often...
Gaddaffi is an asshole like all other dictators.

No democracy is for me no good life.

[Yugo45]

Mark my words, in 20 years 90% of Libya will cry for Gaddafi to come back.

Just you wait and see ;)

[Sasha]

Mark my words, in 20 years 90% of Libya will cry for Gaddafi to come back.

Just you wait and see ;);)

Even if he escapes death now gadaffi will be dead in 20 years but i assume you ment that hyperbolic.
But even then, be honest, how many former Yugoslavians are crying for tito to be back? I doubt you would reach 9% let alone 90%. And tito has a lot better papers for being positively remembered than gadaffi.

Heck, even after the devastating war and occupation not even the iraqis want sadam back.

[ColonelCossack]

By what standard? Obviously many Libyans don't agree with that assessment. Say what you will about the rebels but it astounds me that anyone could really think that this guy provided a good standard of living.

I heard that libya had the highest living standard in Africa... and this was from the guardian or something.. or the independent... or the observer... I can't quite remember...

albiet citation fucking needed. sorry. :(

[Yugo45]

But even then, be honest, how many former Yugoslavians are crying for tito to be back? I doubt you would reach 9% let alone 90%.

Lol 9%? It's AT LEAST 70%. Well, I'm just judging by Bosnia. I don't know how it is in rest of the Yugoslav republics, though from what I hear it's the same more or less.

95% of people who were alive when Tito was around, are crying for him.

The ones who are not crying for him are the kids who got either brainwashed by the mosque/church, the west, or their nationalist parents (the 5%).


The reason why I said that people will be crying for Gaddafi in 20 years was judging by how people are crying for Tito now. Even those people who wrecked Yugoslavia are crying for him now.

Sure, Gaddafi has his flaws. But will the people be better off with the so called rebels governing over them? I am almost positve that they will not.

The only thing that the new Libya will manage to do is to become a NATO colony. Just like all the ex-Yugoslav republics. Oh and they'll get "democracy" and live happily ever after. Well, the western version of Democracy, and all the benefits it carries.

Like:

The standard going from the highest in Africa to lowest,
The average wage becoming 200$,
Unemployment rate going up by the day,
80% of factories closing down,
Other 20% factories privitising and going from 2000 workers to 200,
The difference between classes becoming higher then ever..

You know, those sort of benefits.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

I heard that libya had the highest living standard in Africa... and this was from the guardian or something.. or the independent... or the observer... I can't quite remember...

albiet citation fucking needed. sorry. :(

It is true that Libya has a high living standard relative to African countries. But no subsaharan African country has tolerable living standards thanks to the tragic history of that part of the world and no other North African country is living on millions of barrels of oil, so Libya should instead be compared with other deserted oil-rich states in the Arab world. Nor has Gaddafi been doing that much recently to raise those living standards, especially in the parts of the country which started protesting his rule initially. Yes he spent some of the oil money on social welfare but hey so does the Saudi government-its not particularly hard for oil-rich states to create a limited welfare state. His government strategically allows areas or social groups which are opposed to some of his policies to get the least welfare spending, and they have been dismantling what was left of even this fairly limited welfare state.

Not to mention the usual claims of high living standards in Libya don't include the very real possibility of getting sent to a Libyan prison.

In one Libyan hospital, sanitary conditions were so bad that 400 children contracted HIV. This happened in Benghazi, which is an indicator of exactly how bad social services had become in that part of the country. And this was over a decade before this uprising! When the kids got HIV, his government of course decided to execute the foreign working-class nurses instead of hold the bourgeois bureaucrats responsible for the whole mess to escape any blame themselves. Only some diplomatic effort got them released.

Shit, if that's the kind of government which "Socialists" now support why dont we all just move to fucking Norway? At least there you don't get tortured in jail and the supposed "welfare state" is stronger.

[Luís Henrique]

what is the general consensus on colonel gaddafi's rule?

There is no consensus. But I suppose you have already realised that from the posts above.

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

Mark my words, in 20 years 90% of Libya will cry for Gaddafi to come back.


Con los años, me van a estar pidiendo que vuelva el gobierno militar.

Luís Henrique