Let's all discuss the state of the left in America.

[CynicalIdealist]

By my own admission, I feel pretty hopeless about the left in America, and I'm sure such is the case with many of you.

The more I experience the world--whether the real world or actual socialist movements--the more I truly realize just how many barriers there are to even the most remotely radical ideas, let alone communism. I'm currently taking community college courses right now, and I've noticed that even the supposedly more political classes emphasize liberal solutions that completely divert people from the workers' movement and even from collective action in general. Obviously, most of us know that intentional ideological barriers prevent us from having a wider audience, but it's one thing to theorize about it and one thing to experience it and begin to understand it.

As for the actual socialist left it's in disarray. I'm personally not a Leninist so I have little interest in PSL, but my two other local Sacramento socialist movements--ISO and Socialist Organizer--are both at the extreme end of disorganized because in the absence of a strong workers' movement, they've tried to primarily recruit students as opposed to workers, who simply join as a college experience and then leave.

The thing is, I think about the solutions of different organizations, and I have pessimism about all of them: orthodox M-Ls/Maoists defend every remotely "socialist" state and come off as anachronistic in their defense of Stalin; Trotskyists are all separate and the most popular ones have resorted to the student movement as a last resort; left-communists aren't even on the radar because they seem reluctant to engage in activism (which I don't blame them for in a sense, since current activism is limited in scope and message); and finally, regarding anarchists, we have very few class struggle anarchists, and admittedly I myself am skeptical of IWW's one big union tactic.

Now, all that being said, obviously there isn't a "blueprint" for us socialists, but I have to confess to not even having a rough picture of what is it that I'm supposed to do, and furthermore, what we're supposed to do. I can point out one thing that I think we're doing wrong, and that's the fact that we're fragmented as opposed to united, but other than that, I literally have no solutions. Right now I'm cynical, because I don't understand...

1. How we're supposed to promote socialism in the real world with all of the ideological barriers against it.

2. Who, if anyone, is a good representative of the socialist movement right now, and if there's even any point in recruiting people for said organization(s).

In short, I MYSELF don't feel much a sense of direction in how I want to proceed in life promoting the class struggle or whatever, but I also get the feeling that this is the case for most of us here.

So let's discuss our course of action. Should we be more involved in unionizing, despite the barriers to unionization and the limits of unions? Should we try to get jobs in teaching, despite the barriers to teachers who would promote actual struggle? Should we fragmented-as-fuck socialist parties try to join forces, for the sake of even the slightest bit of relevance?

In short, what is to be done? Let's have a real conversation about this. I feel like this board needs to be less about discussing socialism in the abstract and more about discussing ways to move forward.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

State of the Left: Cannot say too much has been accomplished by the actual left,so this is to say people need to take some risks or really get active in direct action initiatives.

[RedMarxist]

"The Left" in my high school doesn't even exist. Every student there sees me reading Karl Marx or Lenin as a curiosity, I'm basically the only Communist/Marxist-Leninist in the whole school.

But of course that is because I'm in high school and most people are still formulating their own personal politics for themselves.

When I get to college I plan to join the Socialist movement there(what kind of Socialism and how big I cannot say). But beyond that little/or large group in College I will join two years down the road(if it still exists by then), Socialism seems dead to me at least where I live . Thank you for the Internet!

Because of the large diversity of Communist currents in existence, it is impossible to unite them all as one big happy family. The best one can do is unite, for example, all of the Leninist/Maoist parties such as the PSL and Revolutionary Communist Party of America into one Unified Communist Party(as they did in Nepal to form the UCPN)

If anyone can give me tips about "being a Communist" in college, please help me out here. I want to get involved in my Socialist movement there(again I don't know anything about it my bro told me about it as he is older then me) and maybe further politicize the nascent Socialist movement there.

[pastradamus]

TOPIC MOVED TO POLITICS AS PER OP'S REQUEST.

To add my own two cents;
When I was young the left in Ireland was pretty big. But, as I went into my teens it was miniscule to say the most. However, now it is growing and is a political force once again.

What im getting at here is that just because there aren't many leftists in your high school in America (there weren't many in mine) does not mean those people wont be leftists when you grow up. It all depends on influence.

[socialistjustin]

The left is pretty small right now. A lot of people are finding Marx because of the crisis, but the active left is quite small. For example, in Vegas, we really dont have an active left group here. This is a big city right in the middle of the crisis and theres nothing here. Libertarians are doing well here(Paul gets a decent chunk of primary votes), but we are far behind them.

[eric922]

The left is pretty small right now. A lot of people are finding Marx because of the crisis, but the active left is quite small. For example, in Vegas, we really dont have an active left group here. This is a big city right in the middle of the crisis and theres nothing here. Libertarians are doing well here(Paul gets a decent chunk of primary votes), but we are far behind them.
Well that makes sense, the only bets more foolish than the ones in Vegas are the bets placed on the Free Market.

[Paulappaul]

The State of the Left is reflected in the State of the working class. When the Working Class is weak, the Left is Weak. Wisconson and the last Presidential Election renewed an interest in Left. Since 2008 I think the Left has been making some big head way.

[Geiseric]

Well this topic can be written about in huge essays. The working class is turning more to the left, what needs to be done is the formation of a new social democratic party, one which has all of the smaller activist groups taking part in it. The labor unions won't turn revolutionary soon, but if we let capitalism rule the world through globalisation, we're looking at the end of history.

[Commissar Rykov]

Well this topic can be written about in huge essays. The working class is turning more to the left, what needs to be done is the formation of a new social democratic party, one which has all of the smaller activist groups taking part in it. The labor unions won't turn revolutionary soon, but if we let capitalism rule the world through globalisation, we're looking at the end of history.
It will definitely make throwing off our shackles pretty damn hard if not impossible.

[jake williams]

The working class is turning more to the left
Evidence? The only real organized resistance and expression of popular rage about the recession that I've seen is the right wing populists, particularly the Tea Party, other than, say, Wisconsin and some other minor things (and the "migrant rights" movements and so on that have been strong before the recession).

The US workng class has been sort of passively social democratic basically forever. In fact there have been some opinion poll trends suggesting views are actually moving to the right. There's a belief that "the left" is in power and it isn't working. Few even social democratic or even left-keynesian solutions are being posed and the right, specifically the ultra-right, is getting more triumphalist.

I'm not at all dismissive about the possibilities for the left right now in the US, but things are really bad right now, and it's going to take a whole lot of work to (re)build a real working class movement.

[Column No.4]

I think peoples political ideas are shifting more towards Anarchism as opposed to Socialism or Communism, mainly because both political parties are dissatisfying.

[Os Cangaceiros]

A lot of the real radicalism in the USA is of the populist right variety. There are plenty of people out there who hate the police, dislike the government, and have no warm feelings towards corporations/"big business" (although they certainly aren't anti-capitalistic). But they're more in line with the militia/"patriot movement", the Gordon Kahl's of the world etc. I think that the government is more worried about them than the left at this point, them and radical environmentalists. Like a poster in another thread mentioned, and I agree, right-wing populists can tap into class anger in the USA in a way that the left has been unable to, in the last couple decades.

The left in the USA on the other hand is mostly toothless. It seems to be mostly based in the university system. I'm not saying that it doesn't have working class members, or that many students are not working class themselves, but it does limit the kind of outreach that happens, IMO.

Ultimately I think it's mostly irrelevant, though. I'd be extremely suprised if the next revolutionary movement emerged out of a leftist group in the USA, or even had much of anything to do with an established leftist group that exists today.

[citizen of industry]

I think we can forget about uniting the fragmented left. All these different parties vary so much in vision and theory. Just look at some of the threads on here. Someone asks about parties in the US and the verbal artillery come out. Personally I think we should utilize a united front whenever possible. Many of these different parties and organizations agree on some issues, they should cooperate on those issues.

As someone also mentioned, the state of the left is reflected in the state of the working class. A unionized, class-conscious working class is going to form and join socialist parties. I think unionism is important, especially in the largely unorganized service industry.

I think people are a lot more open to the idea now, than when I was younger. The economic crisis and the war have contributed to that. If there isn't much growth in socialist parties, there is certainly a big change in opinion polls. "Capitalism" is a dirty word. Something like just under half of American's polled see socialism as preferable to capitalism. Sales of Marx's books, particularly Capital, have gone up tremendously since 2008.

I've also noticed more people are attracted to anarchism or anarcho-syndicalism. I don't think that's such a bad thing though. The more people against capitalism the more popular opinion swings left.

[A Marxist Historian]

Well this topic can be written about in huge essays. The working class is turning more to the left, what needs to be done is the formation of a new social democratic party, one which has all of the smaller activist groups taking part in it. The labor unions won't turn revolutionary soon, but if we let capitalism rule the world through globalisation, we're looking at the end of history.

A big topic indeed. The situation is not good.

The one good thing however is that there is no real social democratic party to channel radicalization away from revolutionary ideas. Instead that role is played, much less effectively, by Obama mania, which is dwindling.

Putting all the little left groups together into one big (well, small to medium sized actually) social democratic party is just about the most effective way to prevent America ever having a revolution we could find.

What we need is a revolutionary workers party, not some new edition of the British Labour Party to put some Tony Blair or other in power to screw the workers big time.

First figure out what the right program is, and organize around that. Program first!

I like the Spartacist program, though organizationally they are pretty small. Given a real explosion of radicalization, they could be the nucleus a real revolutionary movement could cohere around. All other groups are just at best poor imitations IMHO, if even that.

-M.H.-

[A Marxist Historian]

I think we can forget about uniting the fragmented left. All these different parties vary so much in vision and theory. Just look at some of the threads on here. Someone asks about parties in the US and the verbal artillery come out. Personally I think we should utilize a united front whenever possible. Many of these different parties and organizations agree on some issues, they should cooperate on those issues.

As someone also mentioned, the state of the left is reflected in the state of the working class. A unionized, class-conscious working class is going to form and join socialist parties. I think unionism is important, especially in the largely unorganized service industry.

I think people are a lot more open to the idea now, than when I was younger. The economic crisis and the war have contributed to that. If there isn't much growth in socialist parties, there is certainly a big change in opinion polls. "Capitalism" is a dirty word. Something like just under half of American's polled see socialism as preferable to capitalism. Sales of Marx's books, particularly Capital, have gone up tremendously since 2008.

I've also noticed more people are attracted to anarchism or anarcho-syndicalism. I don't think that's such a bad thing though. The more people against capitalism the more popular opinion swings left.

There's a good amount of truth in what you say. When the upsurge happens, it definitely won't start out led by any particular political group. For it to get anywhere however, it will need leadership, which to some degree will come about organically and spontaneously and to some degree from intervention from the outside by revolutionaries. Hopefully flowing together.

I am totally opposed to "unite for unity" left coalitions, which always mean that whichever group is most right wing and least revolutionary ends up calling the shots.

But I am totally in favor of of everybody in the workers and radical movements, not just the left groups, uniting around particular action issues of the moment, like supporting strikes and defending political prisoners. It's in the process of joint struggle together that the people of the different groups can figure out in practice who is right and who is wrong, not in debates on Revleft or anywhere else.

IMHO, it is the Spartacists who are right and everybody else who is wrong. But that has to be demonstrated in practice.

-M.H.-

[Delenda Carthago]

Let's all discuss the state of the left in America.

Isnt this what the "Politics" section is about?

[citizen of industry]

Y

[citizen of industry]

There's a good amount of truth in what you say. When the upsurge happens, it definitely won't start out led by any particular political group. For it to get anywhere however, it will need leadership, which to some degree will come about organically and spontaneously and to some degree from intervention from the outside by revolutionaries. Hopefully flowing together.

I am totally opposed to "unite for unity" left coalitions, which always mean that whichever group is most right wing and least revolutionary ends up calling the shots.

But I am totally in favor of of everybody in the workers and radical movements, not just the left groups, uniting around particular action issues of the moment, like supporting strikes and defending political prisoners. It's in the process of joint struggle together that the people of the different groups can figure out in practice who is right and who is wrong, not in debates on Revleft or anywhere else.

IMHO, it is the Spartacists who are right and everybody else who is wrong. But that has to be demonstrated in practice.

-M.H.-

Yesterday I attended a large anti-nuke demo in Tokyo. I was really impressed at the turnout, much larger than expected. It was a good example of united front. There were so many groups represented, anarchists, different socialist groups and student groups, environmentalists, unions, and even animal rights activists. So many of these groups are at each others throats usually, but everyone was marching together over that one issue. And it occurred to me as we were marching, that for people watching, we looked like one, homogenous unit, the revolutionary left of Japan.

[ВАЛТЕР]

I think a lot of people in the US are Socialists and do not even realize it. When I was in the US these past few months when I would speak with people about leftist ideas, however not announcing that they are leftist they would generally agree with me. Maybe I was just lucky or maybe there is a Socialist in everyone. (This was in Oklahoma BTW. Doesn't get more conservative than that.)

[ВАЛТЕР]

Yesterday I attended a large anti-nuke demo in Tokyo. I was really impressed at the turnout, much larger than expected. It was a good example of united front. There were so many groups represented, anarchists, different socialist groups and student groups, environmentalists, unions, and even animal rights activists. So many of these groups are at each others throats usually, but everyone was marching together over that one issue. And it occurred to me as we were marching, that for people watching, we looked like one, homogenous unit, the revolutionary left of Japan.

I've heard that the Japanese Communist Party has been steadily increasing in size the past few years. Do you know how true this is?

[citizen of industry]

I think a lot of people in the US are Socialists and do not even realize it. When I was in the US these past few months when I would speak with people about leftist ideas, however not announcing that they are leftist they would generally agree with me. Maybe I was just lucky or maybe there is a Socialist in everyone. (This was in Oklahoma BTW. Doesn't get more conservative than that.)

That's the successful result of all the years anti-socialist propaganda. Ask the same people what they think of socialism, they'll spout all the typical statements. Ask them what they think of the specific ideas and they agree. Ask them what they think of capitalism they say they hate it, and hate consumerism, but that there is no other option.

[citizen of industry]

I've heard that the Japanese Communist Party has been steadily increasing in size the past few years. Do you know how true this is?

JCP is one of the largest communist parties in the world, around 500,000 members. After 2008, membership expanded, especially among youth. Sales of kani kosen (crabbing boat), a famous communist novel here also went up by a lot. I don't know if it is still expanding or not. They are not a revolutionary party though. They support "democratic revolution" and only participate in electoral activities. The trade union federation affiliated with them, zenroren, is fairly large, over 700,000 members, but is not militant. But I was still happy membership went up. When they are having an election drive I always take the flyers the guys hand to me. There's not a big difference between them and the other opposition party, SDP (social democrats).

[ВАЛТЕР]

JCP is one of the largest communist parties in the world, around 500,000 members. After 2008, membership expanded, especially among youth. Sales of kani kosen (crabbing boat), a famous communist novel here also went up by a lot. I don't know if it is still expanding or not. They are not a revolutionary party though. They support "democratic revolution" and only participate in electoral activities. The trade union federation affiliated with them, zenroren, is fairly large, over 700,000 members, but is not militant. But I was still happy membership went up. When they are having an election drive I always take the flyers the guys hand to me. There's not a big difference between them and the other opposition party, SDP (social democrats).

That's a shame there are so many of them but they aren't militant.:( If they wanted to they could cause some serious problems for both the government, as well as the American occupiers. Oh well, eventually when they realize that elections and voting don't get Communists anywhere and will take to the streets...eventually.

[ВАЛТЕР]

That's the successful result of all the years anti-socialist propaganda. Ask the same people what they think of socialism, they'll spout all the typical statements. Ask them what they think of the specific ideas and they agree. Ask them what they think of capitalism they say they hate it, and hate consumerism, but that there is no other option.

This is very true. I actually had a discussion on Communism at a friend's house with about 5-6 people. Once they heard the facts on the matter they were generally a lot more accepting of it. They had kind of a moment of enlightenment and I can say I think I planted a seed. One remarked "When the revolution comes and the bullets start flying I want you by my side." :laugh:

It's amazing how so many of them think the Nazis were socialists and were a left wing party. Shocking really.

[Jimmie Higgins]

1. How we're supposed to promote socialism in the real world with all of the ideological barriers against it.The ruling ideas of any age are the ideas of the ruling class, so there'll never be a shortage of ideological barriers to people who want to have a totally different system. But, on the other hand, material circumstances of capitalism tend to push people to challenge the system - even if at first they don't really see it that way. You don't need to read Marx, as a worker, to think, "Shit, we could run this better than the damn company bosses". But these everyday conclusions go out into the ether if there is no way to actually see those ideas played out.

This is why things like Wisconsin gained so much broad working class support (outside the workers immediately effected). People are angry and many do not buy the idea that the answer to the economic crisis is handing money to banks and making workers either unemployed or overworked.

But the problem is a sort of bind for radicals in the US right now. If it takes action to solidify class-consciousness, but it takes class-consiousness to begin to have more militant action, how do we get out of that catch-22?

There's no easy answer and so I think it does mean trying to help workers build rank and file resistance or build social-movements against oppression or whatnot. These movements will produce the sorts of questions and the sorts of workers who are trying to figure out an alternative and then our ideas can have more meaning and resonance.


2. Who, if anyone, is a good representative of the socialist movement right now, and if there's even any point in recruiting people for said organization(s).I think Paulappaul said it best when he pointed out the link between the radical left and the class struggle. All of the existing groups out there are too small and disconnected from the general working class for the situation we face now.

I think struggle is explosive and in the US most periods of class militancy came in short sudden upsurges: the labor battles of the 1800s, 1920s to 1930s, Jim-Crow to Black Power. With this in mind and with the historical context we find ourselves in now where many more people are questioning the system and some of them are beginning to fight back, any group that had an outward focus on helping to build class fight-back as well as promote socialist (in the sense of anti-capitalist working class self-emancipation) answers is, IMO, doing something right. It's also the reason I think we need to organize as radicals now so that the smaller numbers of people currently radicalizing can help - in small ways at first - build a left that will be relevant when millions of people begin to radicalize.


So let's discuss our course of action. Should we be more involved in unionizing, despite the barriers to unionization and the limits of unions? Should we try to get jobs in teaching, despite the barriers to teachers who would promote actual struggle? Should we fragmented-as-fuck socialist parties try to join forces, for the sake of even the slightest bit of relevance?Trying to teach people or trying to create a broad socialist group without a general working class struggle won't create class fight back in my opinion. Not to say either of these things is useless: radicals should work together whenever possible when it makes sense to do so - part of being outwardly focused is also building networks and working-relationships with other groups. As far as educating people, obviously Howard Zinn or Chomsky have helped convince a lot of people about left-wing ideas and history and analysis of the world. But I think part of their high-profile on the left is due to them living, since the 1970s, in a time of low struggle. It is a great service to the working class to have "A People's History of the US" and people like that who helped preserve the historical lessons and experiences of workers in the past. The prominent figures on the US left during times of struggle, however, have been people like the IWW leaders or Eugene Debs or other people who made their reputations through struggles. I think our time is going to be more like that and so the task now is to try and find the areas of struggle where people are already beginning to confront the system, even if not totally in a clear way yet.

So I think areas of struggle that may radicalize faster are probably things to do with:

1) the prison system and police - the black and latino working classes have been hit the hardest by the recession and any home equity that black workers began to build up in the last generation and a half since the civil rights movement has been destroyed. This is a class struggle that is also a struggle against oppression and, finally, it is a weak spot for the capitalists because they need to repress more during times of economic crisis and increased class struggle (and now we are starting to have both) but the system is also overloaded and expensive. The fact that schools are being cut while prisons are built puts the priorities of the system in sharp relief and shows all workers how racism directed against some workers (young black, Latino, native American males) is ultimately an attack on all workers.

2) Labor. This should go without saying. I don't know where in particular we should start, I think we need to be trying everything to help develop worker's struggles both within the bureaucratic unions (rank and file caucuses and movements) and among the unorganized like undocumented immigrants and service workers etc (like the IWW has traditionally done and I think will have increasing success with in the near future if things keep going as they are).

3) Austerity. In my opinion, young people are radicalizing faster world-wide than any other group of people. Students in the US are being squeezed by higher fees and more cuts - a graduating college student today will likely have a job that does not require a degree and right now, a graduated student makes only one dollar more than he/she would have in 1979. This is going to break a lot of illusions of a lot of people and is going to cause some major anger out there. Youth unemployment in general is higher than for other groups of workers, and I think the general realization of downward mobility is going to result in some shit hitting the fan.

Again, I don't think there are short-cuts or easy answers - there's too much we can be doing and too few of us at the moment to do it. But we need to get out there, and try and help the people who are struggling now and that will help pave the way for larger and more radical struggles in the future.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

The first problem is that your conflating the left with the working class's struggle for emancipation. The two are not the same.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Oh well, eventually when they realize that elections and voting don't get Communists anywhere and will take to the streets...eventually.I think the majority of Japanese workers realized that a long time ago. I know quite a few Japanese people. I've been to Japan several times. I'm in contact with people there on a nearly daily basis. From talking with them, staying up on events, etc., I've repeatedly seen a complete distaste for the bourgeois political circus. But I've also seen searches for real alternatives.

Japan has had 6 prime ministers in 5 years. None of them are or were popular. In fact, they've all been abysmally unpopular, as have almost the entirety of government from the local levels on up.

rVuGwc9dlhQ

There was enough of a movement in Japan after the October Revolution to prompt a red scare. There were also big eruptions during the international wave of the 60's too.

And now? A piece of "proletarian literature" about a worker mutiny on a ship has become a best seller. Thousands are flocking to the (utterly reformist) Communist Party, desperately looking for another way. The economy has been stagnant for decades. There are millions who are unemployed or temporary workers, with no kind of future to look forward to at all. The bourgeoisie and its state have proven time and time again that they are incapable of solving the burning problems of the day, like the earthquake and fallout that came afterward. It's not out of the realm of possibilities to see a real social explosion in Japan sometime soon.

The whole world is a tinderbox and sparks are popping up all around us.

[Rafiq]

The real problem is that the Proletariat in the U.S. are unorganized. They are relying on petty-Liberal Micheal Moore democratic party shit, what they need is a new vanguard.

Basically all the Communist parties in the U.S. are Nostalgic Fukuyama parties, that of which are desperately irrelevant.

Remember in the 20's, the workers had countless Unions, the IWW, various communist organizations to "Hitch a ride" to class struggle? They don't have that anymore, but that's exactly what they need.

I think there is big potential. But it is not organized yet.

[Jimmie Higgins]

The real problem is that the Proletariat in the U.S. are unorganized. They are relying on petty-Liberal Micheal Moore democratic party shit, what they need is a new vanguard.How can there be an advanced militant portion of a worker's struggle if there is not much worker's struggle. IMO conscious revolutionaries are an important subjective factor in building fight-back in a successful way and connecting the "class-dots" between existing areas of worker's struggle, but conscious revolutionaries don't create working class struggle - working class struggle creates consious revolutionaries.


Basically all the Communist parties in the U.S. are Nostalgic Fukuyama parties, that of which are desperately irrelevant. I'm not sure what you mean by "Nostalgic Fukuyama" parties (do you mean pre-USSR collapse?). But yes there isn't really an organic connection between the people who have already radicalized and the class in general. This is true of all revolutionaries and the reason why IMO we are seeing some more kind of adventurist tactics by non-organized radicals and why many organized radicals have had a tenancy to try and substitute themselves in the US. It's the impatience of being a revolutionary in non-revolutionary times... but we are seeing more class anger and action these days and so I think more radicals will start to see organizing among workers in self-initiated struggles as the important task.


Remember in the 20's, the workers had countless Unions, the IWW, various communist organizations to "Hitch a ride" to class struggle? They don't have that anymore, but that's exactly what they need. The 1920s may not be the best example - they were like a mini-1950s or 1980-1990 for class struggle. After the Russian Revolution and the war there was an upsurge in struggle but then a sharp decline with things like the Palmer Raids a lot of anti-anarchist and anti-Bolshevik sentiment, a rise of a new KKK (targeting immigrants and labor militants) and then a post-war economic boom that convinced many people that class struggle was a thing of the past (as people thought in the 1990s and 1950s). The IWW declined and the CP was disorganized and the Socialist Party was only the right-wing of the party after most of the left-wing had gone to the IWW and CP.

But I think the 1920s also show why it is necessary for those who are already radical to try and lay some groundwork to make it easier for the many more who will potentially radicalize when class struggle picks up. The connections to working class communities, the bringing together of the native and immigrant left and participating in the mine-strikes helped the militants of the 1920s survive a period of decline and grow rapidly when class struggle picked up in the mid-1930s.

[Rocky Rococo]

I'd say the most valuable thing we can be doing at this point is getting practical, on the ground organizing experience however small-scale and low-level it may be. In fact, small scale and low level may just be redeeming qualities to bring into being a movement without any significant institutional inheritance, without mentors and teachers. We have to be our own teachers and learn by doing ourselves. Accept that conditions not of our own making limit us to baby steps now, don't allow that to back us off the baby steps of very simple neighborhood type organizing. We're not even ready to build an organization now, so don't worry about organization building for now. Let's get some experience in actual organizing, however small-scale,first.

[tanklv]

There's a "left" in Amerikkka?!

Who'd a thunk...

All I see is a right wing party and a bat shit insane right wing party.

And some few individuals making sense (in a sane sort of way) occasionally allowed to get thru the fog...but no truely "left"...

Oh, and a large contingent of Obamabot groupies who worship the idea of the person without really caring about that persons right wing actual policies - like rooting for your favorite football team - and it's rather disgusting...they would be apoplectic if bush* or any repuke did certain things, but because Obama does it, it's now OK...

Of course, anybody with a modicum of "common sense" is considered "extreme left wing" nowadays...

[Sendero Rojo]

I’ve recently come to the conclusion that there is no left in the USA. There is no real class struggle in the USA. What class struggle there is will can never reach a boiling point because it’s constantly cooled with the blood of the third-world, of genocide, and of chattel slavery. Any truly revolutionary movement here will be easily crushed, not just by the will of the capitalist class, but by the will of the common people who will never give up their American lifestyles. What the “left” want here is not revolution, but rather Sweden or something like that, more American lifestyles (which our earth cannot sustain) for everyone, and unless your “revolutionary” movement is prepared to give it to them immediately then you’ll feel their wrath.

The only potential revolutionary force in the US are not workers (who‘re increasingly drawn from only the strictly capitalist-approved stratas), but those who catch hell everyday in the worst ways due to the workings of the capitalist system as a whole: Black people, Latina(o’s), Native peoples, non-White minorities in general, women, gay people, prisoners and former prisoners, homeless people etc.. And even these people cannot possibly lead a successful revolution here, it will be easily drowned in blood by the capitalists and the workers (who have tasted the blood of the third-world enabled superwages they receive and overwhelmingly want more, see: unionists, “socialists“, the I$O-types, liberals, etc.. not to mention just the common workers ), but still should be organized into a global communist organization with leadership with the proper vision to see that first world workers are the class enemy of the common people of the world. If you want to change the world, support third-world communist movements and if you‘re in the first-world realize that you‘re behind enemy lines.

[Sendero Rojo]

I’ve recently come to the conclusion that there is no left in the USA. There is no real class struggle in the USA. What class struggle there is will never reach a boiling point because it’s constantly cooled with the blood of the third-world, of genocide, and of chattel slavery. Any truly revolutionary movement here will be easily crushed, not just by the will of the capitalist class, but by the will of the common people who will never give up their American lifestyles. What the “left” want here is not revolution, but rather Sweden or something like that, more American lifestyles (which our earth cannot sustain) for everyone, and unless your “revolutionary” movement is prepared to give it to them immediately then you’ll feel their wrath. The only potential revolutionary force in the US are not workers (who‘re increasingly drawn from only the strictly capitalist-approved stratas), but those who catch hell everyday in the worst ways due to the workings of the capitalist system as a whole: Black people, Latina(o’s), Native peoples, non-White minorities in general, women, gay people, prisoners and former prisoners, homeless people etc.. And even these people cannot possibly lead a successful revolution here, it will be easily drowned in blood by the capitalists and the workers (who have tasted the blood of the third world enabled superwages they receive and overwhelmingly want more, see: unionists, “socialists“, the I$O-types, liberals, etc.. not to mention just the common workers ), but still should be organized into a global communist organization with leadership with the proper vision to see that first world workers are the class enemy of the common people of the world. If you want to change the world, support third-world communist movements and if you‘re in the first-world realize that you‘re behind enemy lines.

[Iraultzaile Ezkerreko]

I’ve recently come to the conclusion that there is no left in the USA. There is no real class struggle in the USA. What class struggle there is will never reach a boiling point because it’s constantly cooled with the blood of the third-world, of genocide, and of chattel slavery. Any truly revolutionary movement here will be easily crushed, not just by the will of the capitalist class, but by the will of the common people who will never give up their American lifestyles. What the “left” want here is not revolution, but rather Sweden or something like that, more American lifestyles (which our earth cannot sustain) for everyone, and unless your “revolutionary” movement is prepared to give it to them immediately then you’ll feel their wrath. The only potential revolutionary force in the US are not workers (who‘re increasingly drawn from only the strictly capitalist-approved stratas), but those who catch hell everyday in the worst ways due to the workings of the capitalist system as a whole: Black people, Latina(o’s), Native peoples, non-White minorities in general, women, gay people, prisoners and former prisoners, homeless people etc.. And even these people cannot possibly lead a successful revolution here, it will be easily drowned in blood by the capitalists and the workers (who have tasted the blood of the third world enabled superwages they receive and overwhelmingly want more, see: unionists, “socialists“, the I$O-types, liberals, etc.. not to mention just the common workers ), but still should be organized into a global communist organization with leadership with the proper vision to see that first world workers are the class enemy of the common people of the world. If you want to change the world, support third-world communist movements and if you‘re in the first-world realize that you‘re behind enemy lines.

TL;DR - "If you want to change the world, do nothing, fetishize the third-world from your parents basement, and wait for someone else to do something and organize the struggle while you sit on your computer and complain."

[Winkers Fons]

I think we could all agree that traditional socialist rhetoric and imagery is highly stigmatized in the U.S. We need to come across in a way that is more friendly to the average American worker.

The reason why the tea party is so successful is because people can see themselves in those rallies instead of some kid wearing a Che t-shirt. We will never get anywhere as long as the revolutionary movement looks so alien to everyday Americans.

My advice: Show up to rallies playing country music and wearing blue jeans.

[Comrade]

Absolutely non-existent. I don't consider bourgeois corporatists with a slight interest in the environment to accurately represent the left. Socialists and Communists have been so demonized in this country that even Democrats consistently attack socialism.

[A Marxist Historian]

Yesterday I attended a large anti-nuke demo in Tokyo. I was really impressed at the turnout, much larger than expected. It was a good example of united front. There were so many groups represented, anarchists, different socialist groups and student groups, environmentalists, unions, and even animal rights activists. So many of these groups are at each others throats usually, but everyone was marching together over that one issue. And it occurred to me as we were marching, that for people watching, we looked like one, homogenous unit, the revolutionary left of Japan.

An example of what's wrong.

Because like it or not, at this point Japan cannot survive without nuclear power. Shut down all the nuke plants, and the whole population of Japan would be thrown into permanent poverty and suffering. The Japanese capitalists have gone so thoroughly into nuclear power that if you shut all the plants down, the whole country would come to a halt.

The Japanese people were completely freaked out over Fukushima, and rightly so. Nothing is safe in the hands of the capitalist class, and nuclear power most of all. So the Japanese people like the idea of getting rid of all nuke plants ... in theory.

In practice, they are not going to fight for that, as they know better in their hearts of hearts.

So if the whole Japanese left unites around ending nuclear power, it has made itself irrelevant and useless, though it'll probably help the vote totals and demo sizes for a while.

The perfect example of the disaster of "uniting for unity."

-M.H.-

[A Marxist Historian]

That's the successful result of all the years anti-socialist propaganda. Ask the same people what they think of socialism, they'll spout all the typical statements. Ask them what they think of the specific ideas and they agree. Ask them what they think of capitalism they say they hate it, and hate consumerism, but that there is no other option.

And why is that anti-socialist propaganda so successful? Because of the collapse of the Soviet Union, which gave people the idea that socialism might be a nice idea in theory, but in practice doesn't work.

So the *first* job to be done to rebuild a socialist movement is to understand what went down in the Soviet Union, and why. Without that, socialists and revolutionaries will never get anywhere.

And that's why IMHO the Spartacists are the only left group that is any good. They are the only one which defended the Soviet Union right to the last ditch as a conquest of the working class of the whole world, while condemning *all* Stalinist bureaucrats as no good.

Without an understanding of the only big attempt ever to create a socialist society and what went wrong with it, there is just no way that a movement for socialism can possibly succeed.

-M.H.-

[A Marxist Historian]

The first problem is that your conflating the left with the working class's struggle for emancipation. The two are not the same.

It is through the left, the conscious part of the working class, that the working class struggles for its emancipation.

The Archie Bunkers don't want to be emancipated, they just want a better deal for themselves out of capitalism, or at best for people like themselves, with the same skin color etc.

So yes, in the last analysis they are the same.

-M.H.-