Alex Jones stealing our scthick....libertarians becoming new radicals?

[RadioRaheem84]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5U3HEwugSk

Alex Jones puts Noam Chomsky in plain speak with this rant. It's actually quite lucid and cogent for a usual tin foil nutcase.

He talks about monopoly capital and how capitalists are raiding the public trough to finance their projects, i.e. socializing the risks, privatizing the gains.

BUT he turns it around and makes it seem as though it's not capitalism but "corporatism" or "crony capitalism" and then proceeds to call this ridiculous plundering "socialism" or "socialism for the rich".

He admits that socialism doesn't exist anymore in any real sense, but that what the capitalists are doing is a form of socialism?

The internet libertarian and anti-NWO crowd are really stealing some of our analysis and turning it on it's head by claiming that what is needed is a restructuring to make the market more free!

For such a keen albeit rough analysis of the capital accumulation process, Jones mutilates whatever insight he has with his paleo-con, libertarian, nonsense.

What are to do when this is the majority alternative view for people looking for real analysis?

[Susurrus]

They accuse us of being utopian, and then dream of a perfect land of small business owners? uh-huh suuurrrrre.

[RedSonRising]

They're becoming a group that associates "statist" ideologies with each other, much like tea-party crackpots, and accuse the government of a variety of conspiracies, claiming there is a globalist communist fascist satanic plot to horridly monitor and depopulate the world. And when they say that, they unwittingly reveal that they don't know it's been happening to some degree to working class populations everywhere, and are just scared shitless that their sheltered lives are going to get affected for once.

I think this phenomenon is mostly limited to US middle-class whites, because they fail to see any concrete political consequences that real hierarchical decision-making has on the domestic working class, or third world populations. When there was a Tsunami in southeast Asia or a hurricane in the Caribbean or the shooting of protestors in the Middle East or the murdering of trade unionists by coca-cola hired paramilitaries in Colombia, there were no screams of an ascending New World Order by this political sub-culture. It just isn't even acknowledged or registered as a sign of unjust power by real existing social structures.

Meanwhile, the Federal Reserve or FEMA is mentioned at all in the public sphere, and all hell is supposed to break loose because they control the dollar and want to see it fucked over so they can put is into internment camps by overriding the constitution so they can own and control.... THE (relatively secure white middle-class American) WORLD!



Seriously, a good hour of conversation from us with any of these internet followers would do some good to shake the myths of utopian market corruption.

[Die Neue Zeit]

I'm more concerned about "left libertarianism" a la Kevin Carson (the kind that says that corporations are formed by state charters), actually.

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

I got to about 1:35 and kept hearing "crony capitalism," (funny phrase) and stopped. It's amazing to me how the majority of the people in the American media are just dancing around the fact that the problem is capitalism, it isn't "crony," capitalism, it's just capitalism, that's how it works, do you like it? Does it taste good? If not then stfu and stand out of our way. I don't understand how no matter how close they get, they always have to spin things and add an adjective instead of just saying "capitalism is the problem."

[Susurrus]

It's amazing to me how the majority of the people in the American media are just dancing around the fact that the problem is capitalism, it isn't "crony," capitalism, it's just capitalism, that's how it works, do you like it? Does it taste good? If not then stfu and stand out of our way. I don't understand how no matter how close they get, they always have to spin things and add an adjective instead of just saying "capitalism is the problem."

The effects of 80+ years of propaganda

[Susurrus]

Oh for heaven's sake, this clinches his idiocy:

gZRUUFCrPSk


"Communism... is a movement of the economic elite to create levers of control for societies through large centralized governments..."

[MooseCracker]

Propaganda definitely plays a major role in peoples fear of investigating other/ left options. Alex Jones, Jesse Ventura et al are definitely Tea-Party supporters they prop Ron Paul up all the time. i rant offline all the time about the usurpation of class struggle. 'Look you're poor and suffering and other people are too, so what you need to do is support the system that keeps you down in an unfettered form' - heaven forbid that you have leaders that might accept some input from you working people, it's much better to accept leadership from the wealthiest owners of your companies. The other ideology that drives me nuts is the response "that's not real capitalism" 'cause everybody who works hard and has faith can magically have a massively successful business. We on the left have a real responsibility to push back and reveal the flaws right now but i think we also need to pay attention to how they are capturing so much attention and find the points that people are drawn to.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Isn't the term "Crony Capitalism" a little redundant? :rolleyes:

[GPDP]

Isn't the term "Crony Capitalism" a little redundant? :rolleyes:

It's just one of many terms constructed to dance around the question of capitalism. Another one that always gets brought up by social-dems is "casino capitalism." Corporatism is also popular among both left and right-wing liberals.

In the end, they're all plain old capitalism, as we should all know. But seeing as liberals of all stripes are by and far idealists, they tend to judge the merits of capitalism on whether it lives up to the ideal of capitalism rather than its material basis. Thus, when capitalism is seen as failing, it's suddenly not REAAAAAAAAAL capitalism, but a corruption of what their economics textbook says it is.

Of course, they rarely afford the same leniency when it comes to socialism.

[Rafiq]

Since when are we concerned with what Alex Jones sais?

[Jimmie Higgins]

He talks about monopoly capital and how capitalists are raiding the public trough to finance their projects, i.e. socializing the risks, privatizing the gains.The short answer is that even a broken clock is rights twice a day... and as far as clocks go, this one is a cuckoo!


The internet libertarian and anti-NWO crowd are really stealing some of our analysis and turning it on it's head by claiming that what is needed is a restructuring to make the market more free! Nothing new, before 60 years ago someone like him would make an analysis of capitalism and the harm it's doing but then conclude, and that's why the jew-bankers have to be stopped!

That's what old school right-wing populist demagoguery (and a lot of forms of fascism too) is all about. These people know they are being fucked but they are mostly petty-bourgeois in outlook, have no idea how society works, are mad as hell, but also don't have any social way to deal with it.


What are to do when this is the majority alternative view for people looking for real analysis?The majority of people who don't really move past the internet into the real world that is. More people know of socialism is than who Alex Jones is... more people only know who Alex Jones is because of the Charlie Sheen rant than actually follow him or his ideas.

Demagogues can get a radio following, but even Glenn Beck can't really make a movement that's more than a paper-tiger of useful idiots for corporations. History is full of cults worse than this and crazy ranters like this... we don't get that impression because they come and go and are largely irrelevant and their followers follow for a while and then jump onto something else.

The people I know who buy into Alex Jones type shit are literally irrelevant at this point and will continue to be so unless they eventually evolve into full-fledged fascists as crisis intensifies. These listeners spend most of their time online and literally believe that there is more than a 50% chance that the world will end in 2012. I know one of these guys and he's all over the map - believing in Aliens controlling events one day, believing that chemicals are being put into our food to make men's penises smaller then next.

Things are crazy, the ruling class's ideological grip is unraveling and so there's bound to be a lot of weird shit out there and it will probably continue. This is why it is useless for radicals to fight only or mainly in the ideological arena - our best weapon is our numbers and reality. They can't prove the NWO, cause it doesn't exist so they will only be a movement of followers and big-men, we can prove our shit in practice as the struggle intensifies and that will show millions of people who talks the talk and who walks the walk... and why they should be walking too.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Oh for heaven's sake, this clinches his idiocy:You haven't heard much of Alex Jones' ideas have you.

_t3POfNbx6M

PtKT11WmQcY

[Hexen]

The effects of 80+ years of propaganda

I have a feeling that this is the core reason why we won't be seeing a revolution and it seems like the capitalists have already won at this point.

[HEAD ICE]

i dont care what yall think but before 9/11 alex jones was actually pretty interesting. not syaing the stuff he said was true or not but he did some amusing local investigative journalism.

[Hexen]

Also there was a video game that recently came out which is about conspiracy theories (Deus Ex: Human Revolution) which pretty much invalidated conspiracy claims.

Point is you'll never see a game, film, etc that points to the main source of the problem (capitalism) and also a post-revolutionary society because they can't be biting the hand that feeds them (companies/corporations selling the products are a part of capitalism) or keeping people informed about reality and envisioning a better future for everyone.

[Susurrus]

Point is you'll never see a game, film, etc that points to the main source of the problem (capitalism) and also a post-revolutionary society.


Ken Loach films and plenty of fiction books.

[Proukunin]

this mother fucker needs to calm down..i won't lie i used to follow him but he is the reason i become a socialist..

[Jimmie Higgins]

this mother fucker needs to calm down..i won't lie i used to follow him but he is the reason i become a socialist..No shame in being someone who develops their ideas and grows. :)

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

i dont care what yall think but before 9/11 alex jones was actually pretty interesting. not syaing the stuff he said was true or not but he did some amusing local investigative journalism.

Fuck no he wasn't. He was even more gung-ho about everything being communism before that. America Destroyed By Design characterised the UN as a global communist conspiracy taking the United States over by endorsing fucking National Parks and reserves, and that some rubbish investment group Gorbachev was involved in that owned some port facilities was a major step in the eventual dominance of the United States by the commies and the return of the Soviet Union which was apparently just in hiding... Not to mention his close friendship to some of the insane lunatics that still dwell in Cold War paranoia and rant about communist plots non-stop like David Estulin, those people belong in mental health-care facilities.

[RadioRaheem84]

I think the whole libertarian internet and presumptions about capitalism is what keeps a lot of people from fighting back the way other nations are.

[~Spectre]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5U3HEwugSk
Alex Jones puts Noam Chomsky in plain speak with this rant. It's actually quite lucid and cogent for a usual tin foil nutcase.


Noam Chomsky already speaks plainly. Part of Chomsky's appeal is that he likes to avoid jargon, which makes him much more accessible to a lot of folks. I don't think we need Alex Jones to put things in "plain speak".

Ironically that you bring them up though, as Jones interviewed Chomsky and ended the interview by saying Chomsky wasn't "as honest as he could be" and then once Chomsky was safely off the line, proceeded to scream how Chomsky was an NWO schill/moron/enabler who had not even half the brains of the great Alex Jones. Seriously.

[Os Cangaceiros]

The problem is that Chomsky's voice is more effective than sleeping pills when it comes to eliciting an effect of heavy sedation.

[Jimmie Higgins]

The problem is that Chomsky's voice is more effective than sleeping pills when it comes to eliciting an effect of heavy sedation.I kinda always wondered why people love him so much. His insights and writings are fantastic, but as a speaker and public figure... really? A 3 hour movie of him talking... really?

Howard Zinn wasn't a firebrand either, but he seemed like your kindly neighbor or uncle or something so he had that going for him. He also came across as humble whereas Chomsky comes across as a prof. - nothing really wrong with that coz he is one:lol: but again, I'm just suprized he became a public figure.

[RadioRaheem84]

Chomsky's lectures are pretty boring and academic even if he does speak plainly.

Parenti is exciting on the other hand, not filled with jargon and passionate without going off on a rant.

Zinn does have that grandfather telling a story approach to him.

Surprisingly, Robert McChesney of Monthly Review is a really good speaker. He is very confident in what he says and seems like he could take down a lot of critics of socialism or his theory.

[seventeethdecember2016]

I think Jones has some things of value to share. Obvious he isn't lying about everything he says, but he certainly isn't telling the truth either. At a bare minimum, I believe 10% of what he says may be true, which is good enough for me.

[Small Geezer]

Is Alex Jones legit?

[Small Geezer]

Chomsky's lectures are pretty boring and academic even if he does speak plainly.

Parenti is exciting on the other hand, not filled with jargon and passionate without going off on a rant.

Zinn does have that grandfather telling a story approach to him.

Surprisingly, Robert McChesney of Monthly Review is a really good speaker. He is very confident in what he says and seems like he could take down a lot of critics of socialism or his theory.

The problem, comrade, is can they ever expect to be seriously interviewed on any channel that isn't RT or France2? Even that doesn't happen to often unless it's a heavily framed subject that benefits those independantly imperialist countries. Allthough France is up for debate.

[Walt]

The libertarians seek to control the internet. And they've been doing so for the past few years quite successfully. All it takes is one visit on YouTube, and I'm sure within 10 minutes of browsing you're sure to find multiple advertisements by the Austrian party, indoctrinating teenagers and young adults into believing capitalism is perfect, and to make it more perfect, we must destroy the state and eliminate regulatory systems.

This is done in an almost cult-esque fashion, and the support they've received over the past few years is unmatched. If the left does nothing to challenge these radicals with our own form of evangelic preaching radicals, we've let the politics of the internet become a handover to the right.

Peter Schiff, Lee Doren (HowTheWorldWorks), Tom Woods Jr, Mises/Cato Institute are nearly unchallenged in the world of the internet, thus they've risen to great levels. Why not stop them?

[workersadvocate]

Agh, just found out the other day that one of my co-workers is one of those Alex Jones fans. Talked my rar off about one wacky conspiracy theory after another until I snatched my chance to escape, expecting aliens, batboy (remember 'Weekly World News' tabloid at the checkout lane of every grocery store?) or "the Jews" to get blamed next.

Alex Jones and his ilk thrive upon fearmongering and cultivating the outlook of powerless individuals who are victims of secret conspiring powers. What is the Alex Jones solution?
Be afraid, tell everyone you know to be also afraid, and keep tuning into his bullshit program and buying merchandise from Infowars, who are the only source of "truth".
The Alex Jones fan thinks that he ( I've never met a diehard female fan yet) needs to get " "prepared", by which is meant some individualist survivalist Rambo bullshit...and continuing to tune in to Alex Jones!

[Yazman]

I'm glad to see serious discussion here. Let's keep it that way guys :)

[RadioRaheem84]

The only reason I even listen to him at all is that he digs up good stories about the government. I ignore his NWO spin on it, but I find out about the crazy stuff our government is up to.

I am just getting annoyed at the libertarian campaign out there to claim the top spot of revolutionary politics.

Something has to be done.

[Ocean Seal]

Basically they want an environment of perfect competition which won't lead to monopolies. Don't know how they aren't dumb enough to see the problem with that.

[GPDP]

Meh, I hear far more bullshit about the Jews being behind everything than Alex Jones-esque narratives about the NWO, at least on sites like 4chan.

[workersadvocate]

Basically they want an environment of perfect competition which won't lead to monopolies. Don't know how they aren't dumb enough to see the problem with that.

It's small-fry individualist middle class thinking....

[tanklv]

It's just one of many terms constructed to dance around the question of capitalism. Another one that always gets brought up by social-dems is "casino capitalism." Corporatism is also popular among both left and right-wing liberals.

In the end, they're all plain old capitalism, as we should all know. But seeing as liberals of all stripes are by and far idealists, they tend to judge the merits of capitalism on whether it lives up to the ideal of capitalism rather than its material basis. Thus, when capitalism is seen as failing, it's suddenly not REAAAAAAAAAL capitalism, but a corruption of what their economics textbook says it is.

Of course, they rarely afford the same leniency when it comes to socialism.


ahh - there are NO "right wing liberals".

Left wing = liberals.

Right wing = conservatives.

Get that fucking straight.

Otherwise you sound very ignorant.

[Leftsolidarity]

ahh - there are NO "right wing liberals".

Left wing = liberals.

Right wing = conservatives.

Get that fucking straight.

Otherwise you sound very ignorant.

Liberals are to the right of us. Capitalists in general are to the right of us so it isn't exactly incorrect to label them as "right-wing".

[o well this is ok I guess]

Our "schtick" isn't exactly trademarked or anything. It's not as if we're particularly divided from run-of-the-mill populism.

[GPDP]

ahh - there are NO "right wing liberals".

Left wing = liberals.

Right wing = conservatives.

Get that fucking straight.

Otherwise you sound very ignorant.

So then we're just extreme liberals, since liberals are, by your definition, left-wing, right?

Also, European liberals are totally left-wing. Nope, they're not known to be vehemently pro-capitalist. No siree.

[Ostrinski]

ahh - there are NO "right wing liberals".

Left wing = liberals.

Right wing = conservatives.

Get that fucking straight.

Otherwise you sound very ignorant.I think Rafiq said it the best in the Liberals - Friend or Foe thread.

Because Liberals themselves include conservatives. You guys realize that Liberalism is the foundational basis for bourgeois thought, right? Conservatives, right wingers, etc. are all Liberals, too.

[RadioRaheem84]

So then we're just extreme liberals, since liberals are, by your definition, left-wing, right?

Also, European liberals are totally left-wing. Nope, they're not known to be vehemently pro-capitalist. No siree.


In the US, right wingers consider us "extreme liberals".

:rolleyes: Liberal extremists = communists

[Rafiq]

Alex Jones got rich off this shit. It's all marketting. Perhaps I should do the same thing to make money

[GPDP]

Alex Jones got rich off this shit. It's all marketting. Perhaps I should do the same thing to make money

You have to wonder, though. What if Alex Jones had basically the same style of reporting and documentaries and stuff, but the analysis was solidly leftist? Would he still have garnered a fanbase?

Then again, if he had been a real leftist, I'm not sure he would've sold or charged for shit outside of asking for donations.

[Bronco]

I'm more concerned about "left libertarianism" a la Kevin Carson (the kind that says that corporations are formed by state charters), actually.

Why?

[RadioRaheem84]

You have to wonder, though. What if Alex Jones had basically the same style of reporting and documentaries and stuff, but the analysis was solidly leftist? Would he still have garnered a fanbase?

Then again, if he had been a real leftist, I'm not sure he would've sold or charged for shit outside of asking for donations.

He believes in a lot of the stuff he spews, it's just he has also made a cozy as hell living off of it.

If Jones had been leftist, he would've not have had the same air time as Jones.

[GPDP]

He believes in a lot of the stuff he spews, it's just he has also made a cozy as hell living off of it.

If Jones had been leftist, he would've not have had the same air time as Jones.

Yeah, guess the problem would've been finding a platform. As batshit crazy as his conspiracy theories are, they are harmless to those in power, so he's basically ignored and left alone to spew his crap. If he converted to Marxism tomorrow, I guarantee he'd be completely demonized and blacklisted EVERYWHERE.

[Shotgun Opera]

I have to wonder why we're even considering rubbing shoulders with Jones.

The guy practically breathes confirmation bias, his only function seems to be converting oxygen to carbon dioxide and torching bandwidth.

It continues to just blow my mind that this guy is taken with any degree of seriousness. We need to take him as a sign of what NOT to do. Put him in the same basket as David Icke, learn what he does so you know not to do it, and forget about him.

[Deicide]

How do you people approach 'Anarcho-Capitalists' like Stefan Moleneux?

[Deicide]

I have to wonder why we're even considering rubbing shoulders with Jones.

The guy practically breathes confirmation bias, his only function seems to be converting oxygen to carbon dioxide and torching bandwidth.

It continues to just blow my mind that this guy is taken with any degree of seriousness. We need to take him as a sign of what NOT to do. Put him in the same basket as David Icke, learn what he does so you know not to do it, and forget about him.

Rofl, David Icke is a fucking lunatic, but he's taken seriously by an increasing amount of people. What's happening to the world, seriously.

I can't stand the smugness of conspiracy theorists and how the majority of them, use the conspiracy world view as an analysis toolkit.

For example, I've come across several nut jobs, who believe that communism, fascism, and essentially, every political ideology in existence, was invented by the 'powers that be', the 'illuminati' or the 'Zionist Jews' to control the world, by keeping the world in constant ideological conflict and war.