3/4s of a million may die in Somalia (UN)

[Tommy4ever]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14785304

I didn't have a concept of just how bad things were in Somalia. The UN has estimated that the famine could cause 750,000 deaths whilst a population of 12 million people across East Africa are at risk.

[Nox]

nvm

[Tommy4ever]

Poor taste.

[Die Rote Fahne]

What do you expect from a Libertarian Paradise? :D

Yeah, that's ignorant and off topic.

[Red Commissar]

The main problem I don't like with this report is it says the famine conditions apply only in areas controlled by Shahab, though it seems to be affecting a good chunk of the Horn of Africa, with its impacts being felt the strongest in Somalia on account of no real government to account of. The internationally recognized one (ie the American one) in Mogadishu, as we know, has little power outside of the capital and we've even seen them have trouble in the capital.

Everything outside as we also know is warlord hell. And they serve their interests first and foremost. And this isn't just Shahab.

At the rate things have gone it ends up making Siad Barre's messy government look effective in comparison.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

The main problem I don't like with this report is it says the famine conditions apply only in areas controlled by Shahab, though it seems to be affecting a good chunk of the Horn of Africa, with its impacts being felt the strongest in Somalia on account of no real government to account of. The internationally recognized one (ie the American one) in Mogadishu, as we know, has little power outside of the capital and we've even seen them have trouble in the capital.

Everything outside as we also know is warlord hell. And they serve their interests first and foremost. And this isn't just Shahab.


The problem is that Shabab blocks aid groups from coming in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14785304


The UN-backed authority controls the capital, Mogadishu but few other areas.
Unni Karunakara, head of medical charity Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF), says al-Shabab's restrictions on aid workers mean many people in Somalia cannot be helped - and says aid agencies should be more open about this when appealing for more money.
"The grim reality of Somalia today is we are not able to get to south and central Somalia, which we consider to be the epicentre of the crisis," he told the BBC World Service.

...

Some officials from al-Shabab, which has links to al-Qaeda, have accused Western aid groups of exaggerating the scale of the crisis for political reasons.


This makes an already bad situation even worse. You are right to say that warlords contribute to the problem too but it's even worse when Al Shabab pretends the problem doesn't exist, accuses aid groups of meddling, and tells them to get lost despite the fact that millions desperately need the food from foreign aid.

The longer term and more systemic problem is the lack of local agricultural infrastructure and good governance. 20 years of never-ending civil war prevent Somalians from building up the kind of food surpluses which they need to survive these kinds of horrible disasters. It is a tragedy with many causes.



At the rate things have gone it ends up making Siad Barre's messy government look effective in comparison.He was one of the major contributing factors to the current instability.

[Red Commissar]

The problem is that Shabab blocks aid groups from coming in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14785304



This makes an already bad situation even worse. You are right to say that warlords contribute to the problem too but it's even worse when Al Shabab pretends the problem doesn't exist, accuses aid groups of meddling, and tells them to get lost despite the fact that millions desperately need the food from foreign aid.

Yes, and my point is, contrary to the UN claims, it isn't just Shabaab doing it. It's childish to just go and blame EVERYTHING on them and act like other groups aren't contributing in their own way. This just smacks of the 'olol mooslims' angle that a lot of outlets have pushed to sidestep other issues in the region.

Somalia problems currently can't be put solely on Shabaab. It would be there with our with out them- some other group would have filled in their role anyways. It's easy to go parrot what these sources say with out thinking much about it and blame it on the token Muslim terrorist group and ignore the others. Yes, Shabaab blocks supplies, but so do other groups. It's what they do as warlords.

News outlets usually ignore the other groups because it's easy to try and tie this into the greater "War on Terror" line and drum up calls for 'humanitarian intervention'.



He was one of the major contributing factors to the current instability.

Yes, that's why I said "messy government". I'm well aware of his failed policies regarding the clans and tribes. I didn't mean that comment to come off as support for him.

[Ocean Seal]

What do you expect from a Libertarian Paradise? :D
The people of Somalia never chose to be a libertarian paradise. They never chose to have strongmen rule over them, and they never chose to get into that situation in the first place.

[Dragovich]

It's a shame that the Somalis are suffering. :(

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Yes, and my point is, contrary to the UN claims, it isn't just Shabaab doing it. It's childish to just go and blame EVERYTHING on them and act like other groups aren't contributing in their own way. This just smacks of the 'olol mooslims' angle that a lot of outlets have pushed to sidestep other issues in the region.

Somalia problems currently can't be put solely on Shabaab. It would be there with our with out them- some other group would have filled in their role anyways. It's easy to go parrot what these sources say with out thinking much about it and blame it on the token Muslim terrorist group and ignore the others. Yes, Shabaab blocks supplies, but so do other groups. It's what they do as warlords.

News outlets usually ignore the other groups because it's easy to try and tie this into the greater "War on Terror" line and drum up calls for 'humanitarian intervention'.


You are responding to an earlier version of my response. I deleted what I had originally said and offered a more nuanced argument.

Anyways, there is a bit of a logical fallacy here. Al Shabab may not be the only cause, however the past experience of international institutions blaming terror groups to justify intervention and Muslim groups receiving exaggerated share of the blame before it doesn't mean that al Shabab is not a particular obstacle in distributing aid right now. Al Shabab shouldn't be confused with Muslims in general, and opposition to their ideology should not be confused with Islamophobia. I don't like Hindu nationalism in India or Christian exceptionalism in America but that doesn't mean I am necessarily opposed to the Hindu faith or Christian faith.

Another fallacy is that calling out al Shabab's activities should not be confused with believing that the current problems have multiple causes. One can accuse al Shabab of exacerbating existing problems without laying all of the blame at their feet. I agree with you that al Shabab does not have a monopoly on blame as I said in the updated version of what I put up before you responded. But they are certainly exacerbating the problem more than any other one particular actor (from what I understand their power and reach is much greater than that of any one particular warlord)



Yes, that's why I said "messy government". I'm well aware of his failed policies regarding the clans and tribes. I didn't mean that comment to come off as support for him.OK this makes sense (I know Mao supported him I dont know if there are hardcore Maoists who uphold his system or not and I'm not 100% sure as to your politics).