What is Primitivism?

[Nox]

From what I have gathered, it seems like being opposed to technology.

The first thing that comes to mind is Pol Pot. Was he a primitivist?

So what exactly is Primitivism? It seems like a strange concept and I'd like to learn about what it involves.

[RedRose]

Basically it's what you said, it's a theory that society would be beter if we were deindustrialised, and returned to a more 'feral' state. I think the only major movement following it is the Anarcho-primitivism movement, which advocates complete anarchy, and then a process of 'rewilding' or something similar.

Sounds like quite a romantic idea, returning to the wild and all that, but I'm happy with my technology for now :D

[Tommy4ever]

Essentially these dellusional people think that the world would be a much better place if we reverted to a pre-industrial society without modern technology. They ignore all reason and common sense, because they are more in touch with mother nature. Or something.

[Red Commissar]

Yeah, primitivists are basically anti-technology as Tommy others aid.

Pol-Pot wouldn't be considered a primitivist though, the Khmer Rouge had not disowned technology or industry, but I guess could be argued as a combination of agrarian populism and the need to vacate urban areas due to the ongoing war (not apologizing for what he did, mind you).

A main component of the Primtivists, especially from an anarchist viewpoint, is they posit that technology has allowed for the state to centralize its authority and able to dominate people. In their opinion it will never be possible to destroy the state unless the technology the state utilizes is destroyed.

The Unabomber here in the states pretty much followed that view and for the most part it appears to be what most Primitivists, at least those claiming to be anarchists, hold. This can be taken a step further to the point that they might reject even normal settlements and say that a hunter-gatherer type existence would be more preferable, as the foundations of a 'state' began with people settling down into towns and engaging in agriculture.

[Os Cangaceiros]

It was kind of popular in the radical milieu during the 90's/early 2000's*, but I think that's it's popularity has waned in recent years.

You still have folks who are into "animal rights" and environmentalism and direct action related to those causes, but not so much of the Zerzan-ite crap.

*or so I've been told. I wasn't paying attention to politics back then.

[Commissar Rykov]

I have found Primitivism to have gathered a following in parts of the Far Right not very seriously but take some Hitler Racialism and Racial Holy War ideas and mix with Primitivist Tribalism and you get some batshit weird ideas.

[bcbm]

The Unabomber here in the states pretty much followed that view and for the most part it appears to be what most Primitivists, at least those claiming to be anarchists, hold.

the unabomber was in no way an anarchist and anarcho-primitivists, while having some similar ideas, have critiqued him. there was a pretty long running discussion about him in green anarchy magazine, i think

[CommieTroll]

Without the advances of modern medicine or modern food production 90% of the global population would die so that's enough to win any argument with them. And there'd be no computers to get on RevLeft so for now I can say I'm not or it:laugh:

[Red Commissar]

the unabomber was in no way an anarchist and anarcho-primitivists, while having some similar ideas, have critiqued him. there was a pretty long running discussion about him in green anarchy magazine, i think

I didn't say he was an anarcho-primitivist, but he held views similar to them in regards to the point that technology and other advances tended to benefit state power and as such the first step towards anarchy would be to return to a more "natural" condition, free of anything that a state would be able to use to form. Only brought him up because as far as solid examples go along the lines of technology=state power he's the only one that put it into concrete action. I can't say I've actually met an anarcho-primitivist irl, nor seen any of their publications. Just what I've come across here on the forums when they came up.

Unabomber himself was rather critical of 'left' ideologies I think.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

I didn't say he was an anarcho-primitivist, but he held views similar to them in regards to the point that technology and other advances tended to benefit state power and as such the first step towards anarchy would be to return to a more "natural" condition, free of anything that a state would be able to use to form. Only brought him up because as far as solid examples go along the lines of technology=state power he's the only one that put it into concrete action. I can't say I've actually met an anarcho-primitivist irl, nor seen any of their publications. Just what I've come across here on the forums when they came up.

Unabomber himself was rather critical of 'left' ideologies I think.
I've read parts of the Unabomber manifesto out of curiosity, and I get the feeling he is referring to US Liberals, not leftists in general, although he refers to the 'left'.

[Sentinel]

It was kind of popular in the radical milieu during the 90's/early 2000's*, but I think that's it's popularity has waned in recent years.

You still have folks who are into "animal rights" and environmentalism and direct action related to those causes, but not so much of the Zerzan-ite crap.

*or so I've been told. I wasn't paying attention to politics back then.Indeed. If anything this is telling of the desperate state of the left during that time. The bureacratic states of the so called socialist bloc had just recently collapsed, which (regardless of the actual nature of these states) had led to the capitalists triumphantly proclaiming the 'end of history', and to a massive demoralisation of the entire workers movement.

The crisis of capitalism and the heightened state of class tensions in the current period, combined with a new generation not as affected by the disillusionment caused by the events of the 90s entering the stage, have since led to a beginning revival of the serious, class war oriented left.

This has forced ideas like 'anarcho-primitivism' to the background where they properly belong.

[onix]

ok. i never associated 'primitivism' with either polpot's (stalinist) disestablishling campaigns, nor have i ever met more then a couple very youthfull anarchists to promote even moderate 'rewilding' of humankind. so politically it is marginal.

however, in art of all kinds it represents a diverse thing, and the idea of primitivism as a technique in social development or philosophical thinking attracts me.

the murderous example of historical capitalism's relation with 'primitives' may serve.

[Plagueround]

Without the advances of modern medicine or modern food production 90% of the global population would die so that's enough to win any argument with them. And there'd be no computers to get on RevLeft so for now I can say I'm not or it:laugh:

Their counter argument is that we don't necessarily have a choice and that it will happen whether we like it or not, because industrial society isn't sustainable, so that doesn't really "win" the argument automatically. Many of them appear to be of this mindset, although some of them really are just bat shit insane.

[Plagueround]

ok. i never associated 'primitivism' with either polpot's (stalinist) disestablishling campaigns, nor have i ever met more then a couple very youthfull anarchists to promote even moderate 'rewilding' of humankind. so politically it is marginal.

however, in art of all kinds it represents a diverse thing, and the idea of primitivism as a technique in social development or philosophical thinking attracts me.

the murderous example of historical capitalism's relation with 'primitives' may serve.

Where "primitivists" often get it wrong in relation to our traditional societies is that traditional societies were not opposed to development and technology, but did (at least in our case) pay some attention to how it impacted the environment around them, which is why many spoke out against the technologies that were displacing them and the ecosystems they depended on. This still occurs to this day. The traditionalists I've met and spoken to have much to say on the subject, but there are some things one doesn't put on the internet. Seek out your elders if you've got any.
Modern primitivists, on the other hand, often delve into useless proclamations about anything but making basic tools as unsustainable death machines set to enslave us all. :|