Prospects for Socialist Revolution in America-a hopeful myth?

[RedMarxist]

Comrades, how likely do you think a socialist revolution in America will/can be? Do you believe it is just a hopeful myth Marxists live by just to wake up every morning and go through their day, or is it a genuine possibly as the economic crisis increases?

Furthermore, on a side note, do you think the True Democracy movement in Greece(I know its been the topic of oh so many threads in the ongoing struggles section) could potentially kick of a world revolution, with socialist over/undertones? many of their demands are wholly socialist("worker control", blatant pleas for socialism/semi-socialism, destruction of the market and the bankers) or will it become just another failed people's revolt, crushed by imperialism?

your dear young comrade,

--RedMarxist--

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Well of course I believe revolution is possible in America. I wouldn't be a communist if I believed it was impossible, I'd be a reformist. Now whether that's just hopeful thinking is another discussion.

[RedMarxist]

Right now however, I am skeptical of a revolution occurring anytime soon. And I am also scared-scared that if worst comes to worst the forces of reaction will hunt us down, attempt to crush us. I guess then the only option then is to fight back in self-defense?

More and more, as I have studied Lenin's writings and the history of Communism and Socialism, have I become convinced that there must be a vanguard party to lead the march towards revolution.

More and more, my idea of revolution has went from idealistic, immature, and hopeful "democratic Marxism" when I first got attracted to Marxism towards a slightly more authoritarian, ridged form of revolutionary socialism. a far cry from actual autocracy, I think that order of some sort must be ensured when the revolution kicks off, or else we will be doomed to falter.

I don't necessarily support the party actually taking power post-revolution(we all know how well that turned out...), but some form of power(democracy of some sort?) must, and I say MUST, exist for Communism to actually be reached.

Furthermore, if worst comes to worst, then at least self-defense violence must be utilized to the utmost if the revolution is to succeed.

Again I am shaping this off of the continuing revolutions that have erupted in my life time so who knows, my views may change.


But What I have seen, cannot happen again.

[Susurrus]

Right now however, I am skeptical of a revolution occurring anytime soon. And I am also scared-scared that if worst comes to worst the forces of reaction will hunt us down, attempt to crush us. I guess then the only option then is to fight back in self-defense?

Well of course.



I don't necessarily support the party actually taking power post-revolution(we all know how well that turned out...), but some form of power(democracy of some sort?) must, and I say MUST, exist for Communism to actually be reached.

Power in the hands of the people rather than a party or the bourgeoisie, such as in the soviet councils that Lenin seized power from.

[Caj]

More and more, as I have studied Lenin's writings and the history of Communism and Socialism, have I become convinced that there must be a vanguard party to lead the march towards revolution.

. . .

I don't necessarily support the party actually taking power post-revolution

Your views sound closer to Bakuninist vanguardism than Leninist.

[Kamos]

The revolution will most likely not happen because of a gradual buildup of communists, but rather because of a few disastrous events that really get the people thinking about the system. So, yes, anything is possible since we can't foresee these events very well.

[Susurrus]

The revolution will most likely not happen because of a gradual buildup of communists, but rather because of a few disastrous events that really get the people thinking about the system. So, yes, anything is possible since we can't foresee these events very well.


Probably more of a combination of the two.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

We just had a thread like this a week ago: http://www.revleft.com/vb/revolution-u-s-t160173/index.html?t=160173

[Streetwaves]

Probably more of a combination of the two.

I agree. The buildup would have to be pretty gradual, though. Anything more will throw the crazy machine in place in America right now into full swing.

[CommieTroll]

Of course it's possible but the means of how it will be achieved are disputed, to me an armed uprising is a bit futile so I guess the workers need to obtain class consciousness and revolutionary conditions are excellent. But the US propaganda machine is in full swing even though there hasn't been a major ''Red Scare'' in years but I'd say Red Scares in America never end or in any Capitalist country for that matter. My faith lies in the American proletariat and the CPUSA but I'm sure a lot of people here will disagree with me. And the case of revolution and the working class in America is interesting, John Steinbeck described it best with
"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." Hopefully the CIA don't bug my phone conversations now :laugh:

[Column No.4]

The recent unrealized admission by the Republican party that theyre anti-working class has made me think we might be looking at a revolution in at least my lifetime.

[TelevisionIncarnate]

Don't think so, at least not a communist revolution. Most of the people I talk to have ideas about defeating corporatism and installing something close to capitalism but without corporations...which is an oxymoron. If you even go as far as mentioning communism, they label you right off the bat as an evil warmongering murderer. Even so, most of the people don't even care about their current political situation. As Kamos said, people need a wakeup call.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Of course it's possible but the means of how it will be achieved are disputed, to me an armed uprising is a bit futile so I guess the workers need to obtain class consciousness and revolutionary conditions are excellent. But the US propaganda machine is in full swing even though there hasn't been a major ''Red Scare'' in years but I'd say Red Scares in America never end or in any Capitalist country for that matter. My faith lies in the American proletariat and the CPUSA but I'm sure a lot of people here will disagree with me. And the case of revolution and the working class in America is interesting, John Steinbeck described it best with Hopefully the CIA don't bug my phone conversations now :laugh:
:laugh:
That's hella funny bro, the CPUSA leading some proletarian revolution.

[RedMarxist]

The CPUSA is reformist. Back in the day though, way back when revolution was rocking Russia, it sure as hell stood for revolution, but like the KKE over time it lost its original purpose and started dabbling in Bourgeois politics.

No, what we need(esp. the working class poor) is a true worker's party. A vanguard that seeks to educate, agitate, and revolutionize across America. And this task at hand will not be done just by sitting at our computers and talking about it...It will require considerable effort on account of the far left.

I have always been fascinated by politics. From Polk to Lenin, it is just so interesting to read about all the struggles, the strive for victory over ones political enemies, and the compromises that must be made to obtain that victory.

Rest assured we will be...attacked by the forces of reaction. But we must continue to agitate, to protest the Bourgeoisie's power over society. Right now the far left is only a fragment of its former grand past self. We must change that.

And I believe that we can. We need a vanguard party, not so we can lord over the proletariat post-revolution, but so that during the revolution the advanced workers and communists can organize society for a epic shift, for the final struggle against reaction.

The only struggle that is lost is the one that was never attempted in the first place.

Socialism today, Socialism forever!

[Agent Equality]

Right now however, I am skeptical of a revolution occurring anytime soon. And I am also scared-scared that if worst comes to worst the forces of reaction will hunt us down, attempt to crush us. I guess then the only option then is to fight back in self-defense?

More and more, as I have studied Lenin's writings and the history of Communism and Socialism, have I become convinced that there must be a vanguard party to lead the march towards revolution.

More and more, my idea of revolution has went from idealistic, immature, and hopeful "democratic Marxism" when I first got attracted to Marxism towards a slightly more authoritarian, ridged form of revolutionary socialism. a far cry from actual autocracy, I think that order of some sort must be ensured when the revolution kicks off, or else we will be doomed to falter.

I don't necessarily support the party actually taking power post-revolution(we all know how well that turned out...), but some form of power(democracy of some sort?) must, and I say MUST, exist for Communism to actually be reached.

Furthermore, if worst comes to worst, then at least self-defense violence must be utilized to the utmost if the revolution is to succeed.

Again I am shaping this off of the continuing revolutions that have erupted in my life time so who knows, my views may change.


But What I have seen, cannot happen again.

You honestly expect that the Vanguard party will give up power once its won the revolution? History repeats itself my friend. What makes you think that this vanguard party will somehow be different from all the others that have come before it in other parts of the world?

People naturally want the power to control their own destinies. And when you give a certain group of people more power over that then other less qualified people(i.e. the proletariat, workers, people, etc.) then that certain group will naturally want to maintain that power.

The only possible way your vanguard party could work is if the party was the people. That means that you would have to abolish ranks and other forms of hierarchy so deeply rooted in the communist party system and allow all to join and actively participate in discussions and decision making. The party would have to be directly democratic and union in nature. But then at this point, why would you even have need of the party? Why even call it the vanguard party anymore? Once the masses are educated and given the power to control their own destinies, then there would no longer be a need to any such organization to organize the people, as they would organize themselves.

Sadly, this is not what will pan out if another vanguard party were to lead the revolution. A vanguard party is a form of hierarchy. When you create a hierarchy, no MATTER your intentions, there will always be those who wish to maintain the hierarchy, no exceptions. Thus you will have managed to create inequality in the persuit of creating equality, as has been the case with every single Vanguard party-won revolution.

Albert Einstein once said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"

The Vanguard party is a proven failure, maybe not kicking off the revolution, but certainly upholding socialist and communist ideals and practices.

[Commissar Rykov]

:laugh:
That's hella funny bro, the CPUSA leading some proletarian revolution.
The CPUSA is about as revolutionary as the GOP. Honestly the CPUSA is what made me leave Far Left politics when I was younger because it was more interested in selling out to Corporate Democrat interests than it was in actual Working Class Conditions. I couldn't stress enough how people need to avoid that party like the plague if they are even remotely serious Marxists of any stripe.

[Psy]

A revolution occurs because the social order can no longer sustain its rule due to antagonisms and contradictions in the social orders, kinda like how regardless of how much the current ruling class pays for bourgeois economists the economists can only tell the ruling class to weather the storm.

As for the role of vanguards, to get rid of vanguard is to get rid of all Marxists party till the revolution. Vanguard means advance of, and the only want no to be advances of the masses in class consciousness is not educate ourself on class issues to the masses do.

[RedMarxist]

You misunderstood me. I was trying to explain how helpful-and successful, a vanguard party is during a revolution, not after.

Using the KOE as an example in Greece. They are disseminating socialist propaganda, agitating etc, yet are independent of the direct democracy movement. Yet, because of them, many socialist ideals have sprouted up in the protesters demands that would not have materialized without the 'advanced communist class' bringing forth suggestions.

So how then, is it a proven failure. Sure, under the right circumstances, it cane become a single-party dictatorship, but again during a revolution it can be very helpful and actually guide the masses.

I'm not saying have it be the sole party post-revolution, what I'm saying is its there, so why not use it to spread peacefully socialist ideals? There is a new phenomenon called Multi-Party Democracy. look it up.

Its what 1917 Russia was before things went to Hell during the Civil War and foreign intervention.

[ВАЛТЕР]

I think a socialist revolution, anywhere, needs a very militant faction supporting it, because as history has proven the bourgeois ruling class will not concede anything without a fight.

However, for the US it is first vital to make the word "socialist" acceptable in society, since nowadays it is viewed as a "bad" word with socialists being the "enemy".

[RedMarxist]

agreed. Before we can do anything, we must make socialism seem acceptable to at least half of the American population.

Problem is, due to decades of propaganda and the experience of seeing "Communism fail", and with it "history ending", after the collapse of the USSR in 1991, combined with the belief that China is still "Communist" despite heavy market reforms(to the point wherein China has nothing to do with revolutionary China of the early post-civil war days with the exception of still being led by a Communist party), the image of Socialism is effectively tarnished in America and in most of the world beyond repair except in poor peasant communities and in several advanced European nations.(as well as a few other places but its limited support-wise)

combine this with the fact that most older(and rapidly declining) Communist Parties long ago traded in their red flags for greener pastures, the odds of a vanguard party actually doing anything come revolution is negligible.

Communism must be reinvented as a legitimate, obtainable movement.

And even though I'm still in High School , even I can see that sitting here answering your post wont do us any good. This generation(my generation) must act. The older generation has largely failed. For the left to rise again a new type of worker's party MUST be created soon. Without a worker's mass party, then how can the people be persuaded to join our side of the barricades? Whats stopping them from tuning into Fox "News" or CNN? Whats stopping them from joining the police or military force to help suppress a popular socialist movement?

The revolution must happen in America, or at least in Western Europe first before anything can be done. The experiences drawn from "Socialism in One Country" and the Cold War tell us that the revolution must be international, if not global first, as to limit the influence of the bourgeoisie.

So you can either join me and others o we can all continue *****ing on this forum about all sorts of random crap. I don't know about you but we still have a world to win, a world I intend to help win.

I don['t want to die a wage slave sucking up to some dickish boss. Screw that!

I want to help make a revolution along with my fellow man, side by side. I want to be part of a new generation of rebels. As a Communist steeped in Marxist theory, I have a mission to lead the proletariat to victory, seeing as how I know the line of march.

Do you just want to sit here and take it? or do you want to rise up and carve out a new world for yourself? hmmm?

Lenin's legacy will not be forgotten. Its time for my generation to seize the day.

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

A proletarian revolution in America is entirely possible and really, it's inevitable. The way in which capitalism functions, the very way in which it works inevitably will provide the material basis for a revolution. Further with rigorous propaganda, worker's organization and other such things; a revolution seems not only possible but again, inevitable. There is really nothing the bourgeoisie can do to stop us, their time will come. As Uncle Joe said, "when we hang the capitalists they will sell us the rope."

[RedMarxist]

I know man. Capitalism is fucking up the world and all these environmentalists think they can solve environmental problems by cutting back on logging, no pun intended.

All these workers think they can not join a Union and actually think they are benefiting and have it good.

And of those who do join a Union, they just will get ostracized or worse.

There are all these politicians who think that they are doing the country a favor, yet gorge themselves on inefficient bureaucracy and end up running the town/city/country into the ground.

America is functioning much like an empire, not to say that is one already. And like an empire, what does she do? she oppresses the third world to benefit her own citizens, but because the Bourgeoisie want more more more even the common citizens suffer.

America, if she continues on the current path, will end up like Russia in 1917. Constant unwinable wars, economic recession, no jobs, lack of hope...we need a revolution.

[Commissar Rykov]

I know man. Capitalism is fucking up the world and all these environmentalists think they can solve environmental problems by cutting back on logging, no pun intended.

All these workers think they can not join a Union and actually think they are benefiting and have it good.

And of those who do join a Union, they just will get ostracized or worse.

There are all these politicians who think that they are doing the country a favor, yet gorge themselves on inefficient bureaucracy and end up running the town/city/country into the ground.

America is functioning much like an empire, not to say that is one already. And like an empire, what does she do? she oppresses the third world to benefit her own citizens, but because the Bourgeoisie want more more more even the common citizens suffer.

America, if she continues on the current path, will end up like Russia in 1917. Constant unwinable wars, economic recession, no jobs, lack of hope...we need a revolution.
America has functioned as an Empire for a very long time...like shortly after the Revolution. The Bourgeoisie had power and felt the need for more land that is why you had shit like Manifest Destiny and the Monroe Doctrine.

[RedMarxist]

I'm reading A Nation Of Vast Designs, and in it it describes how American president Polk basically engineered the Mexican-American War by pushing the Texas Annexation issue to its limit. Basically he used it as a cause for war and invaded Mexican territory. He also threatened Britain with war if they did not cede the Oregon territory to America.

I hate the mentality that as Americans, we deserve a land stretching from sea to shining sea, as if no one was there before us. I just despise the fact that because we are top dog, our army can impose "democracy" onto entire sovereign nations.

America, ever since 9/11 and the 2008 economic 'Great Recession', has been rapidly turning into a police state. I so badly want to change things but I am powerless at this age. Can't get into politics yet, still have not gone to college, everyone at my school hate Communists.

I hope that the Greek people can set the world straight by overthrowing Capitalist "democracy" in their nation, which indeed is there stated goal.

Just hope NATO or the UN peacekeepers don't find a reason to "restore order" to Greece come revolution.