The NRA

[Leftsolidarity]

Why do some people not like the NRA? I've never found reasons not to like them but then again I've never learned anything about them.

[RichardAWilson]

They're Republicans? Most of them also oppose reproductive choice, marriage, etc.

[Dumb]

Eh, to be honest I actually agree with them on gun control. Can't have a revolution without guns.

Edit: To be clear, I was joking about the notion that I'd side with the NRA. (And probably should not have made that joke - will this count as trolling?)

[Os Cangaceiros]

My parents are NRA members, and I think I'm one too, because I think they signed me up (lol). Anyway, their publications come to my house, and I read them when I'm bored. The problem (or one of them) with the NRA is that they're not just about "gun rights", they're also about a whole lotta revolting cop/military worship, patriotic jingoism, "tough on crime" stances, etc. There's nothing really good about them from a revolutionary perspective, I don't think...they're just another advocacy group, like a million others, except for people who like guns.

[Leftsolidarity]

Oh I see, I just knew that they were for gun rights and shit. I guess you could say I'm "pro-gun" because I mean fuck what are revolutionaries with weapons? If they are all that other stuff though I understand why.

[Commissar Rykov]

The NRA are a bizarre group that have extended beyond the mandate of giving firearms training to citizens. That was the whole point of the group after the Civil War since General Burnside found that American citizens utterly sucked especially Urban Soldiers who usually had no real time with an actual firearm before they were drafted. The idea was to give the citizenry arms training especially in Urban Areas. For obvious reasons they shifted way from that and it has largely become a club for Republicans who complain about everything under the sun.

[~Spectre]

The NRA were formed in the post civil war period in response to laws that outlawed the Ku Klux Klan.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I think it's easy enough to be against both the NRA and also against gun restrictions - or at least how it's handled by the government.

I don't know that much about them or their history. But the whole gun culture generally seems to be wrapped up in a lot of right-wing freakery. There were some Limbaugh-dittoing, confederate-flag on the back of the truck driving, "Well I'm not a racist but..."-ing, Militia-apologizing people at my high school that were way into the NRA.

But I'm not in favor of gun restrictions and they are superficially correct in their slogan "guns don't kill people, people do". I mean, they're right to criticize the liberal view that gun violence is somehow the source of problems and can be minimized. But they don't mean that in that way, I think they mean it like: "guns don't kill people, inherently wicked or sociopathic individuals (or maybe certain kinds of induviduals) do... so you better arm yourself to the teeth."

I guess a radical alternative would be something like, "Guns aren't the source of violence in society, inequality/unemployment/alienation/despair/competition/imperialism/capitalism is."


The NRA were formed in the post civil war period in response to laws that outlawed the Ku Klux Klan.

^Wow! Do you have a link where I can read more about that?

[The Man]

They're Republicans? Most of them also oppose reproductive choice, marriage, etc.

That's actually untrue. I've been in the NRA for a few years now, and they even support Harry Reid in the elections because he supports guns.

[Commissar Rykov]

The NRA were formed in the post civil war period in response to laws that outlawed the Ku Klux Klan.
Incorrect it was formed by General Burnside a Union Officer because he found Union Soldiers sucked with taking care of and using firearms during the Civil War. It had nothing to do with the Klan.

Feeling lazy so I will just link to the wiki article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rifle_Association#History

[W1N5T0N]

http://www.danzfamily.com/archives/blogphotos/08/880-from-my-cold-dead-hands.jpg

[Red Future]

http://www.danzfamily.com/archives/blogphotos/08/880-from-my-cold-dead-hands.jpg


Anyone seen Bowling for Columbine ? he features ingloriously in that..

[The Douche]

NRA has nothing to do with the KKK, sorry.

[CommieTroll]

A group of reactionaries, I'd be surprised if a vast majority of their members didn't vote Republican. I do support gun ownership under any circumstances and that's probably the only thing I can agree with them on

[Red Future]

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/443/the-nras-image-improves-as-support-for-gun-control-slips
Good Stats Graph about the NRA

[W1N5T0N]

NRA rhymes with KKK

[Commissar Rykov]

A group of reactionaries, I'd be surprised if a vast majority of their members didn't vote Republican. I do support gun ownership under any circumstances and that's probably the only thing I can agree with them on
The NRA is an extremely diverse group of people whose only thing they have in common is keeping gun ownership in the hands of the People. Senior leadership though has proven to be extremely reactionary at times though.

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

It's mainly a petty bourgeois association with numerous right-wing reactionaries making up it's membership if not it's main and primary base. I think leftists could agree with the NRA in relation to firearm policy but really we do not need the bourgeoisie to tell us or give us a damn thing; there is always the black market. Guns and ammo can always be obtained.

[Pioneers_Violin]

My father was an NRA person.
He taught all of us to shoot too, which is a good thing.

His philosophy about guns was basically:
Without guns, the people have no power. Without power, a tyrannical government or any other powerful group like Big Business or Big Religion can march right in and take over. The next thing you know, people start disappearing in the middle of the night, never to be seen or heard from again and you find yourself "just following orders - or else".

So, on a basic level, back then the NRA used to be an advocate of "Power to the People", which is a good thing. What they are now, I don't know.

Interestingly, modern anti-gun laws have their roots in Nazi Germany!
Hitler compelled German gun owners to register with the state. Next thing you know, these people started disappearing very quickly and the German people had their power usurped by the Nazi regime.

Decades later, some American politicians translated the Nazi gun laws into English and passed them into law here! I believe that happened in 1968. Father was very upset about that for many, many years. Decades, really. I don't think he ever got over it.

[Comrade_Stalin]

The NRA is an extremely diverse group of people whose only thing they have in common is keeping gun ownership in the hands of the People. Senior leadership though has proven to be extremely reactionary at times though.

A Question then, if the NRA are for "keeping gun ownership in the hands of the People", then why are they not for Conscription? As this would force the goverment to put "real" weapons in the hands of the people for a period of time. Right now the NRA what assualt rifle and bigger clip size but can any of that measure up to driving a tank?

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

A Question then, if the NRA are for "keeping gun ownership in the hands of the People", then why are they not for Conscription? As this would force the goverment to put "real" weapons in the hands of the people for a period of time. Right now the NRA what assualt rifle and bigger clip size but can any of that measure up to driving a tank?

Wut?

[The Douche]

My father was an NRA person.
He taught all of us to shoot too, which is a good thing.

His philosophy about guns was basically:
Without guns, the people have no power. Without power, a tyrannical government or any other powerful group like Big Business or Big Religion can march right in and take over. The next thing you know, people start disappearing in the middle of the night, never to be seen or heard from again and you find yourself "just following orders - or else".

So, on a basic level, back then the NRA used to be an advocate of "Power to the People", which is a good thing. What they are now, I don't know.

Interestingly, modern anti-gun laws have their roots in Nazi Germany!
Hitler compelled German gun owners to register with the state. Next thing you know, these people started disappearing very quickly and the German people had their power usurped by the Nazi regime.

Decades later, some American politicians translated the Nazi gun laws into English and passed them into law here! I believe that happened in 1968. Father was very upset about that for many, many years. Decades, really. I don't think he ever got over it.


Hahaha. False.

[Frank Zapatista]

Have any of you guys heard of the Pink Pistols? It's a LGBT gun rights organization. Their slogan is "armed gays don't get bashed". Interesting concept.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Pistols
http://www.pinkpistols.org/

[Rusty Shackleford]

Registering and keeping track of firearms is something i do not oppose. And that isnt some crypto-nazi side of me. Its just smart.


honestly, it seems conservatives like to call everything fascist/nazi almost as much as revleft does :lol:

Hell, beck in colonial times, people were required to have guns to fight and oppress indians(Maryland required men bring firearms to church). thats a gun law. i dont think american colonialists were nazis lol.

[The Douche]

Registering and keeping track of firearms is something i do not oppose. And that isnt some crypto-nazi side of me. Its just smart.


honestly, it seems conservatives like to call everything fascist/nazi almost as much as revleft does :lol:

Hell, beck in colonial times, people were required to have guns to fight and oppress indians(Maryland required men bring firearms to church). thats a gun law. i dont think american colonialists were nazis lol.

I don't see the benefit of registration, what purpose do you think it serves?

It would certainly complicate individual sales, probably to the point where the state would outlaw them.

[Rusty Shackleford]

I don't see the benefit of registration, what purpose do you think it serves?

It would certainly complicate individual sales, probably to the point where the state would outlaw them.

slippery slope argument.
Doctors are registered and they are not outlawed.
automobiles are registered and they are not outlawed.
Registers register cash tendered in a sale. Cash, registers, and sales are not prohibited. (ok i just wanted to have fun with that one)

Switzerland is almost like colonial Maryland. All men are required to, at some point, register and get conscripted into the military, then given a rifle some ammo and some grenades(i dont know if this is true) incase the mountains get shot at. Albania did the same thing, but also gve everyone a summer bunker.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Decades later, some American politicians translated the Nazi gun laws into English and passed them into law here! I believe that happened in 1968.

If it was 1968, my guess would be that the laws passed had more to do with groups like the Black Panther Party arming themselves to defend against police aggression, and people in the riots of the era taking shots at National Guardsmen and police than with transplanting NAZI laws here for some reason.

I don't know much about the history behind the federal anti-gun laws, but in California, it was specifically the Black Panther Party that led NRA-idol Ronald Regan (then Gov.) to support and pass laws against guns in cities in the late 1960s.

I think that specific history shows some of the hypocrisy of both liberals and conservatives around this issue.

[Susurrus]

Switzerland is almost like colonial Maryland. All men are required to, at some point, register and get conscripted into the military, then given a rifle some ammo and some grenades(i dont know if this is true) incase the mountains get shot at. Albania did the same thing, but also gve everyone a summer bunker.

This sounds pretty awesome to be honest. In a communist society, it might be a good idea to do something similar.

But there really is no reason to register firearms. It's not effective in fighting crime, it's not effective in reducing the number of firearms, and it's not even effective in quelling rebellion.

[Misanthrope]

As previously stated, their politics breed and support right-wing Christian conservatism.

[Leftsolidarity]

But there really is no reason to register firearms. It's not effective in fighting crime,

Umm do you have anything to back that up?

[Iron Felix]

They are basically the advertising department of gun companies.

[Susurrus]

Umm do you have anything to back that up?

Yakuza, Russian Mafia, Triads, all in countries with extremely strict gun control. Not to mention that any criminal who wants a gun will get it via black market, rather than an official source.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Yakuza, Russian Mafia, Triads, all in countries with extremely strict gun control. Not to mention that any criminal who wants a gun will get it via black market, rather than an official source.
not to mention the Irish were able to get heavy weapons from Libya to fight the british.

that and the ATF itself is involved in smuggling :lol:

[Magón]

Oh I see, I just knew that they were for gun rights and shit. I guess you could say I'm "pro-gun" because I mean fuck what are revolutionaries with weapons? If they are all that other stuff though I understand why.

I'm pro-gun too, but damn, I hate the NRA. Mainly for some of the reasons Explosive Situation mentioned.

[Terminator X]

The NRA is a gun club for white, overtly-patriotic males who like to say "witty" things like the aforementioned "guns don't kill people, people do" and "I'll give you my gun when you take it from my cold, dead hands" and vote overwhelmingly Republican/Tea Party in US elections. (And I love the "look, they're not so bad, they endorsed Harry Reid!" argument on a supposedly revolutionary leftist message board).

The fact that they are finding support on this site is pretty nauseating. This is the group you are defending:



"We believe that God, guns and guts made our country free and we're fighting to keep all three," NRA member Ray Oostdyk, from Virginia, said in between speeches mainly by Republican contenders vying for their party's nomination for the 2008 presidential election, including Rudy Giuliani.

"The NRA speaks for the gun owner, the American patriot who still supports the premises our founding fathers created this country upon," added John Jenkins, who had traveled from the midwestern state of Indiana to be at the convention, called "Celebration of American Values".

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/McCain_calls_white_male_NRA_members_0922.html


You can easily support some form of gun ownership rights without associating with these shitbags.