CM's ramblings: Preaching to the choir.

[ComradeMan]

This is just a musing of mind based on purely non-empirical evidence, anecdotes and personal experience. :D

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/preach_to_the_choir

Preaching to the choir. In Italian "sfondare una porta aperta" (break down an open door).

I get the impression these days when I read the newspapers, listen to discussions on a wide-range of subjects from politics, economics, science etc that people are basically not communicating. They are intra-communicating "intralking" in that all we seem to here is preaching to the choir. Democrats go to Democrat rallies (obviously) and listen to Democrats and all cheer etc. Rabbis speak to their congregations, priests likewise- can you imagine a rabbi giving a sermon in a church or vice-versa? Can you imagine a Democrat candidate going to a Republican rally and speaking? Can you imagine Richard Dawkins at the Southern Baptist Convention? :D

What's the problem you might say? Isn't it to be expected? But it seems to be pernicious. TV channels cater for a group, newspapers have their leanings and thus Daily Mail readers in England will be as outraged as the reporters who report on yet another asylum seeker scandal or whatnot. More and more we seem to be segmented. We used to just have a few channels on TV that showed a wide-range of things, now we have all of these specialist channels- each one for each group. When it comes to politics it's hardly a surprise.

But what good does this do? It seems all we get is sound bites and echo-chambers and that furthermore conditions us in a pavlovian sense to accept that and even to like it- afterall when a group of people agree with you it gives you a sense of confirmation and being right and boosts your ego too.

I am convinced that a lot of human conflict is down to fear, prejudice and basic misunderstanding and if, in the age of information, we don't start engaging in more dialogue and communicating with people who we might not necessarily agree with then these conflicts will continue ad infinitum.

[RichardAWilson]

Society's problem goes beyond preaching to the choir. We've lost our social capital. We'd rather position ourselves in front of the television (video game, computer, etc.) than play cards with friends, mingle with co-workers and devote our time to charitable causes.

In certain areas (I.e. big cities), social interaction is limited to basic niceties on the elevator. We're becoming a nation without a soul, one where we've come to resemble machines more than social beings.

This trend even prevails among our youth. The television (X Box) has become a daycare center. Instead of eating home cooked meals around the dinner table, countless families are eating pizza and TV Dinners in different rooms of the house. "Family time," which used to be every day, is now restricted to short outings to McDonald's.

[Bud Struggle]

Society's problem goes beyond preaching to the choir. We've lost our social capital. We'd rather position ourselves in front of the television (video game, computer, etc.) than play cards with friends, mingle with co-workers and devote our time to charitable causes.

In certain areas (I.e. big cities), social interaction is limited to basic niceties on the elevator. We're becoming a nation without a soul, one where we've come to resemble machines more than social beings.

This trend even prevails among our youth. The television (X Box) has become a daycare center. Instead of eating home cooked meals around the dinner table, countless families are eating pizza and TV Dinners in different rooms of the house. "Family time," which used to be every day, is now restricted to short outings to McDonald's.

Damn Comrade, with a couple of minor changes this could be a Pat Robertson rant. :D

[ComradeMan]

Damn Comrade, with a couple of minor changes this could be a Pat Robertson rant. :D

Pat Robertson?

[RichardAWilson]

:cool: Wasn't the direction I was going with it. (I see what you're saying though)

Comrade, he's a radical right-wing preacher.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson

A true bastard.



On 700 Club program Robertson stated regarding the August 23, 2011 2011 Virginia earthquake, “All across the Eastern seaboard, there are men who get manicures, wear designer eyewear and know about thread counts,” Rev. Robertson.

“God finds this somewhat gay-like behavior confusing, and He responded by getting mildly peeved.”

God will strike back at people who act sort of gay with all kinds of mild responses,” he said. “If you keep getting pedicures and facials, you can expect two to three inches of rain and some really hot humid days in your future.”

He needs a face lift.

[ComradeMan]

^^^^ Didn't Jesus kind of have a pedicure once?
;)

[RichardAWilson]

:sneaky: It wasn't a sin for him though.

[ComradeMan]

:sneaky: It wasn't a sin for him though.

As far as I am concerned Christian Right is a contradiction in terms. These guys would have probably crucified Jesus for being a commie... oh, wait--- that's kind of what happened anyway.

[Tommy4ever]

Is there any good analysis of capitalism from the standpoint of social alienation out there?

[ZeroNowhere]

Is there any good analysis of capitalism from the standpoint of social alienation out there?
They're mostly just a repetition of the general conservative stuff about lack of face-to-face interaction and games of football with mates in the sun, 'internet addiction', people listening to music rather than speaking, and so on, albeit with anti-capitalist phrases and snippets of Marxist terminology thrown around for decoration. Personally, I'm wholly in favour of social alienation. Glenn Gould had the right idea.


I get the impression these days when I read the newspapers, listen to discussions on a wide-range of subjects from politics, economics, science etc that people are basically not communicating. They are intra-communicating "intralking" in that all we seem to here is preaching to the choir. Democrats go to Democrat rallies (obviously) and listen to Democrats and all cheer etc. Rabbis speak to their congregations, priests likewise- can you imagine a rabbi giving a sermon in a church or vice-versa? Can you imagine a Democrat candidate going to a Republican rally and speaking? Can you imagine Richard Dawkins at the Southern Baptist Convention? :DWell, preaching to the choir tends to be enjoyable for the choir, I guess. These things are basically feel-good events, and if one has one's politics because it makes one feel good, it's basically just a positive reinforcement. Debate is just about as productive, and otherwise a lot worse. One can't eliminate groupthink by extending the group, as compromise does, nor by simple conversion, which really doesn't change things at all and rather serves as a positive reinforcement. There can be no competition between truth-seekers.

Still, though, I don't think that any solution can begin simply from people talking to people with different viewpoints, but rather conversing with themselves, if anything. The last thing that one wants if one has doubts is to expose them to the many varied shades of evangelists or expose oneself to the self-righteous pharisees of debate. Compromise is generally worse. In any case, people have not written thousands of pages of books and made years' worth of music for people to engage in small talk and go on dates, so some solitary thought could always be done with.

Ultimately, though, when a theoretical basis is entirely lacking, there's nothing productive to be done in discussion with oneself or others but to judge this state unsatisfactory and oneself seek the truth. Once this is pursued, others can help, but the basic orientation cannot be imposed or propagandized. Still, people may be stubborn as they like, but, ultimately, veritas vincit.

[RGacky3]

Pat Robertson is a hateful corporatist skumbag, nothing more than a bigot with a bible.

And you rant sounds NOTHING like anything he would have said.

BUt yeah, people liksten to people who they agree with, I read capitalists news and analysis as well, I just don't buy it.

[citizen of industry]

That's why I don't enjoy the union rallies so much (demonstrations, yes, rallies, no). It's just a bunch of people giving speeches and everyone going, "yeah!" "Alright!"

At the last annual meeting I went to it was two hours of speeches on the different branch accomplishments, then they spent 15 minutes voting and broke down for discussion only for about 30 minutes, then the meeting ended for lack of time. I kept thinking why are we here? If we're going to bother assembling, let's demonstrate or something. Or at least have a lengthy voting and branch discussion. Why the slap-on-the-back speeches?

[ComradeMan]

That's why I don't enjoy the union rallies so much (demonstrations, yes, rallies, no). It's just a bunch of people giving speeches and everyone going, "yeah!" "Alright!"

At the last annual meeting I went to it was two hours of speeches on the different branch accomplishments, then they spent 15 minutes voting and broke down for discussion only for about 30 minutes, then the meeting ended for lack of time. I kept thinking why are we here? If we're going to bother assembling, let's demonstrate or something. Or at least have a lengthy voting and branch discussion. Why the slap-on-the-back speeches?

I can relate to that- the mass back-slapping and self-congratulating that goes on.

[Bud Struggle]

That's why I don't enjoy the union rallies so much (demonstrations, yes, rallies, no). It's just a bunch of people giving speeches and everyone going, "yeah!" "Alright!"


I've been to a IWW meeting (or two) and all we did was sing songs.

[¿Que?]

Maybe that's the way things are, I don't know. However, let's consider the Italian version of the phrase, translated to "break down an open door." Now we get a different picture, one of invading somewhere where you have actually been allowed in, or something like that. Sorry, I'm not sure what I'm trying to say, except that I'm trying to use a different metaphor to elicit a different response to the same empirical phenomena.

I mean, all we really want is to be happy, right?