High School Economics

[Johnny Kerosene]

So I just started my senior year of high school, I have to take a semester of Economics. I was hoping, although in hindsight these hopes were rather naive, that it would be an unbiased (or at least not overly biased) presentation of what economy and how various systems work. I was expecting there to be more of a focus on Capitalism, because you know, but I figured they'd at least no what the hell other systems are and what not. Then we got our textbooks yesterday.

The Bold words are key terms for the section, meaning they're listed in the glossary and presumably have some importance in regards to economics

In the United States, the economic freedoms that we as Americans enjoy are an important reason for our patriotism. Patriotism is the love of one's country-- the passion that inspires a person to serve his or her country, either in defending it from invasion or protecting its rights and maintaning ts laws and institutions, The freedoms that allow any American to who so chooses to become an entrepreneur, for example, are continuing sources of pride and patriotism.


Socialism and Communism
The words most often associated with centrally planned economies are Socialism and Communism. They are most often used interchangeably but we need to make a distinction between the two terms.
Socialism is a social and political philosophy based on the belief that democratic means should be used to distribute wealth evenly throughout a society. Real equality, socialists argue, can only exist when political equality is coupled with economic equality. Economic equality is possible only if the public controls the centers of economic power. Although socialists nations may be democracies, socialism requires a high defree of central planning to achieve economic equality.

Well that was nearly as stupid as expected, but then right after that in the next paragraph we get:

Communism is a political system that arose out of the philosophy of socialism. Communism is characterized by a centrally planned economy with all economic political power resting in the hands of the central government.
Unlike socialists, however, communists believed that a socialist society can only come about after a violent revolution. While socialist economies can still allow for democracy, communist governments are Authoritarian Authoritarian governments exact strict obedience from their citizens and do not allow individuals freedom of judgement and action. Throughout history, communist nations have been dominated by a single political party or dictator. The former Soviet Union was a communist ntion that provides us with a good case study of how a centrally planned economy works-- and doesn't work.

Clearly the The Soviet Union was the epitome of Socialism, and Socialism is not like a stepping stone to communism, which is definitely not a classless stateless, and is in fact run by a dictator.

I think I'm going to hate this class.

[Red Future]

To be honest though you wont find it hard to put forward arguments for a centrally planned economy and workers control of the means of production ..so long as you argue your points calmly and with evidence.A lot of the time people will be unable to counter your points (as they think automatically from a capitalist viewpoint).

You could have a discussion with your teacher about the actual definition....textbook "mistakes" are hated by teachers generally.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

I fucking hated Econ, you probably will too.

[Johnny Kerosene]

It also said in the sidebar that Marx and Engels were socialist writers who wrote the communist manifesto, which introduced their socialist philosophy, and that Lenin and the Bolsheviks were the first communists or something like that.

[Agent Ducky]

WTF. I hope my econ class isn't like that in senior year. I will throw stuff.

[$lim_$weezy]

I started senior year as well, and my economics teacher is a business major and a football coach. He has posters on the walls about "economic freedom", by which it is meant "free trade". But the thing that pisses me off the most is that there is nothing about competing theories in the entire textbook. The word "neoclassical" is never used once. It's going to make students think that neoclassicism and pro-market junk are the entirety of economics! It even defines the "economic perspective" as one based on market transaction and rational self-interest (which, by the way, is defined so as to mean any decision ever made for any reason).

Johnny Kerosene, what textbook is that? It is even worse than ours!

[ZeroNowhere]

So I just started my senior year of high school, I have to take a semester of Economics.Thus began many a tragic tale.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Johnny your textbook sounds like mine, try and find something about immigration and see what it says. Mine said that the country is being "besieged by Mexican and Chinese immigrants". WTF? Also in class we were taught that Iran is currently a planned economy, therefore putting it all the way at the far-left on a spectrum the teacher created. The countries all the way on the left were China, Cuba, North Korea, and Iran :glare:. A Chinese foreign exchange student in my class obviously had a problem with that chart and let the teacher have a piece of his mind.

That's probably what you're going to have to deal with. And the movies, the fucking movies are all libertarian themed.

[Red Commissar]

High School economy classes seem to be like that everywhere. When I took it then- this is probably five years ago now- I remember thinking much of the same thing. Though I wasn't a "socialist" then so it really didn't affect me.

But looking back on it I remember how slanted the course was. Lot of good about our current system, bad about anything else. I remember when my teacher described "Communism" it was more along the lines that it made people "want" less, and according to her this meant people wouldn't mind being poor or something.

[Susurrus]

So I just spent an hour and a half in a college level class listening to North Korea being referred to as communism.

[Rafiq]

Don't waste time trying to argue, or debunk the text you read. I've been down that road and it ain't useful. It's easier to just feel bad for the losers who wrote it and the teacher who believes it...

[Obs]

You know, most of my teachers are pretty chill about me being a communist. It often leads to some very interesting discussions, and it's led to me making friends with a few of them.

[Susurrus]

Actually, my teacher is a right libertarian (and a religious fundie from what i hear) and he was pretty open to my protests.

[Agent Ducky]

You know, most of my teachers are pretty chill about me being a communist. It often leads to some very interesting discussions, and it's led to me making friends with a few of them.
Same here. A lot of them encourage me because it starts discussions and moves the class along. XD

[Weezer]

I live for class discussions on socialism and communism. You should've seen me when my English class was reading Animal Farm. :laugh:

No but really, you can't expect high school textbooks to be anything but reactionary. If some anti-communist idiots in your class start spewing shit or if your teacher does, just argue with them. Show how weak their arguments are.

[GPDP]

The definition your textbook gives of communism is par the course, really. I'm actually far more surprised at how nice they make socialism sound (and surprisingly accurate, too - most economics books describe socialism as being a mixed economy).

However, I would not have expected an economics textbook to get into a jingoistic ultra-patriotic discourse about how great 'muricah is. I mean, I suppose it shouldn't surprise me, but I honestly thought that kind of thing only rears its head on government and U.S. history textbooks.

[Rusty Shackleford]

when i was first getting political, my econ teacher was talking about "pies" and how as the economy grows more people get larger shares of the "pie"

i think i said "bullshit" just a little too loud. didnt stop the class though. i wasnt a disruptive person, really.

[Tommy4ever]

I did Economics during my last 4 years of Senior School. It wasn't so bad as the textbooks you described, I mean they briefly described Communism as a system of state planning, but really not much was said about it. Pretty useful for getting a view of the capitalist system from the point of view of the Keynsians and Monetarists.

Though, in my final exam in May I quoted Capital 3 times and used Marxist concepts in many of my answers despite the fact that none of that stuff (obviously) is taught. I ended up with an A, so the marker must have appreciated it. :D

[Susurrus]

So my assignment for AP Gov is currently to explain why the USSR et al wasn't communist.

My hobby is now my education. :D

[Johnny Kerosene]

Johnny Kerosene, what textbook is that? It is even worse than ours!

http://www.homeeducatorsresource.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_full/isbn_images/013181544X.jpg


You know, most of my teachers are pretty chill about me being a communist. It often leads to some very interesting discussions, and it's led to me making friends with a few of them.

Not all of my teachers are shit, like my Humanities teacher. He's cool as fuck. He installed a functioning, Roman-themed wall fountain next to the door. There's also a painting of Adam and Eve in the back corner, in which Eve is topless, which probably irked the school board. He told us that the system has had twelve years to program us, and he's got nine months to deprogram us, and that he thinks he can do it. He's one of the, if not the, most liked teacher in the school. The work for that class consists of Discussions, and writing in our journals which he doesn't read to encourage us to be as candid as possible, and giving a valedictory speech at the end of the year. He also shows us two songs each day. Today the songs were God Bless America by Kate something or other and some guy named bill, and this land was made for you and me by Woodie Guthrie, and he said that one of his students earlier in the day asked him if he was patriotic, to which he replied "I'm always feeling patriotic, but not in the same way most of you are. I'm patriotic by being united with all of you, not by standing behind a government that goes and exploits other countries." (He said it much better than I did) I just about jumped up with a raised fist and shouted solidarity.

[Pioneers_Violin]

Everyone here so far seems to realize it but I'll point it out anyway:

School is full of Propaganda and Big, Fat Lies.

I was in school a very long time ago and it was the same then.
Only some of the lies have changed.

Like most of the younger students here, I was lucky enough to figure out that the Teacher and the Textbooks were often completely wrong or just plain lying.
This is actually a good thing.

Really! It has already taught you how to spot lies and think for yourself.

When you graduate, you'll be better prepared to deal with the big bad world that awaits you.

Of course, it's terrible for those that believe all that crap.... See if you can't wake a few of them up.

[$lim_$weezy]

Oh man, today was the dreaded "types of economic systems" discussion. On one extreme, Pure Market (represented by Adam Smith) and on the other, Pure Command (represented by Karl Marx, who advocated "total government intervention, deciding everything about you and for you"). Then came, in about 30 seconds, every single cliche, idiotic anti-communist argument I have ever heard. He hit human nature, Stalin, "some people are more equal than others", "looks great on paper", "you can't just treat everyone equally", etc.

I raised my hand to say Marx didn't actually advocate a lot of what the teacher was saying he did, but he didn't even believe me XD.

[GPDP]

Oh man, today was the dreaded "types of economic systems" discussion. On one extreme, Pure Market (represented by Adam Smith) and on the other, Pure Command (represented by Karl Marx, who advocated "total government intervention, deciding everything about you and for you"). Then came, in about 30 seconds, every single cliche, idiotic anti-communist argument I have ever heard. He hit human nature, Stalin, "some people are more equal than others", "looks great on paper", "you can't just treat everyone equally", etc.

I raised my hand to say Marx didn't actually advocate a lot of what the teacher was saying he did, but he didn't even believe me XD.

Just about the same thing happened with me, only it was in college, and when I raised my hand to say Marx didn't say any of that shit (and this was when I was BARELY getting acquainted with Marx, mind you), the professor sidestepped me and went on with the lecture.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

I feel like my A.P. European History teacher did a fairly accurate description of Marx and his work. He wasn't a communist/marxist/anarchist but I think it was pretty spot-on. Although we didn't delve as deep as an Economics class would, but we hit a lot of theory because you can't study European History without being class conscious, it just wouldn't make sense. It led up pretty well to the Russian Revolution.

I think he made a few comments on Stalin, but he seemed honest about Marx and Lenin, which was cool I suppose.

Has any person who has taken a class in economics or European History ever touched upon anarchism? We did very briefly when talking about the Spanish civil war, and in American History because of the insurrectionists and all the assassinations (or attempts) around the turn of the century (in both America and Europe). Of course Marxism and the Soviet Union has overshadowed anarchism on a global scale, but just curious.

[Johnny Kerosene]

I feel like my A.P. European History teacher did a fairly accurate description of Marx and his work. He wasn't a communist/marxist/anarchist but I think it was pretty spot-on. Although we didn't delve as deep as an Economics class would, but we hit a lot of theory because you can't study European History without being class conscious, it just wouldn't make sense. It led up pretty well to the Russian Revolution.

I think he made a few comments on Stalin, but he seemed honest about Marx and Lenin, which was cool I suppose.

Has any person who has taken a class in economics or European History ever touched upon anarchism? We did very briefly when talking about the Spanish civil war, and in American History because of the insurrectionists and all the assassinations (or attempts) around the turn of the century (in both America and Europe). Of course Marxism and the Soviet Union has overshadowed anarchism on a global scale, but just curious.

We didn't talk about Anarchism too much (or at all as far as I can remember but I didn't pay much attention) when I took AP euro, though teacher presented communism and what not from a fairly unbiased point of view. So far in my Economics class we have discussed a couple of basic economic terms and concepts, and how much better a market economy is than the evil authoritarian command economy Communist Soviet Union. And the latter has come up everyday. Every. Fucking. Day. The worst part is that they don't even provide any evidence to support their points. It's like, here's a picture of something in the Soviet Union. This is what it is, and how terrible it is, and that's why communism is so terrible, not once acknowledging that the Soviet Union wasn't Communist, and not once providing a source for any of the claims made. No bibliography, no primary sources, just a shitty textbook and the noisy freshman football team coach.

[Rusty Shackleford]

As for talking about anarchists.

in my AP US Histroy class by the time it was 1880s -1920s there was obviously the talk of the labor movement like the Knights of Labor and shit like that. there was talk about sacco and vanzetti, haymarket riots, and szogzlogzog. but, i dont remember a single mention of anarchism. it was before i was politically minded though. what was AWESOME though was there was a soviet flag in the classroom above the window that faced the field and street. i guess you could say it was positioned in such a place that it was in the direction of 'freedom' :lol:

the teacher was a great guy. but, he seemed to be very 'macho.' he was an older fella and usually did the announcements for the football games and was obsessed with FSU. i think he used to be a PE teacher and coach before he became a history teacher. i dont remember him being sexist though, and definitely not racist.

[thefinalmarch]

Never ever take an economics class if you can avoid it.