China and Classical Fascism

[Rafiq]

I've came across fascist forums, (not neo Nazi or racist) where fascist theorists discuss stuff, out of curiosity.

I managed to discover a lot of fascists actually consider China an example of Fascism(in the qualified sense), with some exceptions...

Just how credible is this label?

[Red Future]

Its rubbish ...they only admire it as they see the CCP as having

Strong Leadership ?

Nationalist pride ( think the revamp in Chinese Nationalism in the 1990s on mainland China) partly to replace Socialism as a motivational tool.

[Rafiq]

No, I believe its more along the lines of a commanded economy where state and corporate power emerge as one and work toward the interests of the nation (bourgeoisie).

[L.A.P.]

inb4 the PSL and CPGB users start to rage.

[Red Future]

I was referring to particulars that Fascists would find admirable in the CCPs governance of China.

[Apoi_Viitor]

I can certainly see why. I would say the corporatist economy is a major factor, combined with the general illiberal and undemocratic nature of the regime are the main reasons. The fact that China is often portrayed in the media as being an economic success (and possibly the next world superpower), all while rejecting liberalism and bourgeios democracy, probably gives Fascists the idea that their beliefs can be successfully implemented.

[Kiev Communard]

I was referring to particulars that Fascists would find admirable in the CCPs governance of China.

The do find a lot of admirable in China's economic model, which is in fact remarkably similar to Mussolini's "corporate State", while the more "anti-imperialist" (i.e. Third Positionist) varieties of fascists support China for the same reason as they praise Gaddafi: due to the perceived "anti-materialism" of these regimes as opposed to "morally decadent" West.

[Wanted Man]

inb4 the PSL and CPGB users start to rage.

In b4 xx1994xx gets a verbal warning for trolling... as in right now. If you do not have anything useful to post in Theory, go to some poorly moderated forum instead.

[Revolutionair]

Good job Wanted Man. It's not like it's important for other leftists to understand why the fuck people are still supporting the Chinese government. Maybe he should have hinted at that in a different way, but his point still stands.

I feel like saying fuck revleft if it's such a shithole where you can't say anything. But revleft is worth reading as long as robbo203 is still posting, so I won't.

On topic:
If one of the major elements of fascism is undemocratic (in the Western sense of the word) class collaboration then China could certainly qualify as fascist. Chinese fascism was also the response to a failed socialist revolution.

[eric922]

Good job Wanted Man. It's not like it's important for other leftists to understand why the fuck people are still supporting the Chinese government. Maybe he should have hinted at that in a different way, but his point still stands.

I feel like saying fuck revleft if it's such a shithole where you can't say anything. But revleft is worth reading as long as robbo203 is still posting, so I won't.

On topic:
If one of the major elements of fascism is undemocratic (in the Western sense of the word) class collaboration then China could certainly qualify as fascist. Chinese fascism was also the response to a failed socialist revolution.
Being undemocratic is an element of Fascism, but that hardly means any undemocratic state can be called Fascist. Monarchies for instance,weren't democratic, but they weren't Fascist either.

[Rafiq]

China's economy resembles Fascism very well, though, not just for being undemocratic.

[Comrade-Z]

The main problem I see with characterizing China as fascist is that fascism is generally distinguished from traditional authoritarian capitalism by the fact that fascism mobilizes the petty-bourgeoisie and portions of the working class in defense of capitalism...and usually in support of some national crusade as well (which is usually what motivates those workers to get on board), whereas traditional authoritarian capitalism wants society demobilized, depoliticized, and merely steadily plodding away.

China strikes me as far more of a traditional authoritarian capitalism society than a fascist one. For one thing, there isn't much of a petty-bourgeoisie to mobilize, and I just don't get the sense that the Chinese leadership wants its society mobilized and politicized, even in favor of its policies...because such mobilization always has a small chance of getting out of hand (such as Hitler having to purge the SA of "left-National Socialists" dreaming of a new, thoroughly Nazi-fied military).

It seems much more to me that the Chinese leadership prefers a tranquil, obedient, Confucian society, which is not what I would describe as fascism.

[Sasha]

i would qualify china more as an dictatorship of the corrupt bureaucracy, if you want fascism you need to look more to north-korea and burma.

[Comrade-Z]

I'd really have to get an inside look at North Korean society to be able to judge it as "fascist" or not. The impression that the regime obviously wants to convey to outsiders with stuff like the mass games is that the population is mobilized and politicized in support of the regime...but I suspect that this might be window-dressing. For example, I've also heard that Pyongyang can feel like a creepy ghost town at times, which makes me think that North Korea is also merely more traditionally authoritarian, albeit with a bizarre sprinkling of some sort of ancient godking propaganda.

[W1N5T0N]

North Korea is just a state in which a small group of people hold all the power and wealth. whereas the rest of the nation is in constant starvation and have to sell their work in order to get scraps.

Thats not even fascism. It sounds to me like some kind of capitalism/feudalism with a cover of Communism. Funny, how that works.

[Rafiq]

Okay, Fascism's Nationalist characteristics among China's model is debatable, however the economic model put forward by Fascists greatly resembles what we are seeing in China.

[Comrade-Z]

Oh, there's rampant corporativism, no doubt. Corporativism can come in many shades, such as the liberal corporativism of the New Deal or the fascist corporativism of Nazi Germany...and many shades in between (which is I think where China falls).