Key Elements of a Fascist Movement

[B0LSHEVIK]

Fascist movements come in all sorts of flavors, but they do usually share similarities. Im also not saying that these are the only similarities. Theres probably many more, but these came into my head the quickest. In my very humble opinion I think that these fascist movements share attributes such as:

1) A sense of order. A well known bureaucracy seen as competent and strong willed.

2) Traditionalism, or past glories. Mussolini recalled the greatness of ancient Rome. Hitler used the image of the Teutonic Knights rolling across Europe and the steppe in conquest of the fatherland. Franco told stories of the original reconquest of Spain from the brown moros, and how he too, was delivering Spain back to god. But they all promised a return to a perceived golden era.

3) Militant rank-and-file.


That being said, I think the tea party has everything needed except #1. All those idiots need is a person that unlike Palin, Bachmann, or Perry; isnt a complete and utter *****. Thats quite scary I think.

[BIG BROTHER]

Fascist movements come in all sorts of flavors, but they do usually share similarities. Im also not saying that these are the only similarities. Theres probably many more, but these came into my head the quickest. In my very humble opinion I think that these fascist movements share attributes such as:

1) A sense of order. A well known bureaucracy seen as competent and strong willed.

2) Traditionalism, or past glories. Mussolini recalled the greatness of ancient Rome. Hitler used the image of the Teutonic Knights rolling across Europe and the steppe in conquest of the fatherland. Franco told stories of the original reconquest of Spain from the brown moros, and how he too, was delivering Spain back to god. But they all promised a return to a perceived golden era.

3) Militant rank-and-file.


That being said, I think the tea party has everything needed except #1. All those idiots need is a person that unlike Palin, Bachmann, or Perry; isnt a complete and utter *****. Thats quite scary I think.


I think you are wrong to be honest.

The Tea party can hardly be described as a movement, as it has been very artificially created.

A traditional right wing party, could have all those things you mentioned and that still wouldn't make it facist.

I am not an expert in fascism, but I do think that one important characteristic of it is mass support, militaristic tendencies, chauvinist nationalism, and it has in goal to destroy any independent movement and organization outside the interests of the corporate state.

[La Comédie Noire]

Well there's always the ole stand by:

http://www.ellensplace.net/fascism.html

But more importantly I think a fascist movement is defined by it's actions against leftist organizations and working class movements. Fascism is usually a reaction to a very strong leftist movement.

The main question is what is there that the tea party movement could destroy? Not much.

Also the Tea Party doesn't seem to be anything, but a current within the Republican Party.

But I do think it's scary they are even becoming intolerant of the right of center, corporate monied Democrats. Going so far as to call them "socialists."

[Geiseric]

"take the country back!" "join the fight!" "those immigrants and muslims are destroying the white race!" tea party is proto fascist, they definately are racist, cheuvanist, and use religion as an excuse for their racism and cheuvanism. if we don't take them seriously, they'll eventually get all their racist, petit bourgeois and reactionary gun owners to do a puctch on the state, and everybody on this forum, if we're to exist outside of conspiracies will have been killed. THEY HAVE THE POSSIBILITY TO WIN ELECTIONS!!! i can't say in words how scary that is.

[BIG BROTHER]

"take the country back!" "join the fight!" "those immigrants and muslims are destroying the white race!" tea party is proto fascist, they definately are racist, cheuvanist, and use religion as an excuse for their racism and cheuvanism. if we don't take them seriously, they'll eventually get all their racist, petit bourgeois and reactionary gun owners to do a puctch on the state, and everybody on this forum, if we're to exist outside of conspiracies will have been killed. THEY HAVE THE POSSIBILITY TO WIN ELECTIONS!!! i can't say in words how scary that is.

Thats just regular gringo chauvinism to us. Fascism is taking this at an extreme, systematic level.

The bourgoise state wouldn't allow a real fascist movement to grow in this country, because even that is a gamble for the, so it is used only as a last resort against a strong radical movement, which is inexisting in the US.

And as a survey showed recently, Muslims are more popular than the tea in the US which shows how truly populare they are.

[citizen of industry]

The certainly have elements of fascism. Best to keep a wary eye on them. Depending on how economic conditions develop I could definitely see a large fascist movement developing in the US. I was talking to an ex-military "buddy" of mine the other day, a working class guy. We took opposite paths after getting out of the military. He blames unemployment on "Mexicans taking our jobs," has a very pessimistic view on humanity generally, buys into the "dog-eat-dog" concept of the human race. Has conspiracy-theory view about the government ("someone behind the scenes is pulling all the strings") but doesn't reject capitalism. He recognizes the economy collapsing and sees a "world war three" in the future. This is the kind of material a fascist movement would be made of, and a lot of working-class people in the US share this view.

[B0LSHEVIK]

I think you are wrong to be honest.

The Tea party can hardly be described as a movement, as it has been very artificially created.

A traditional right wing party, could have all those things you mentioned and that still wouldn't make it facist.

I am not an expert in fascism, but I do think that one important characteristic of it is mass support, militaristic tendencies, chauvinist nationalism, and it has in goal to destroy any independent movement and organization outside the interests of the corporate state.

It was artificially created no doubt by the America's ruling class. BUT, the rank and file idiots truly believe in their bullshit nonsense, just talk to one of them!

The tea party is militaristic. 'Support our troops' and all that nonsense. 'National security before social security' I saw at a Tea rally once. They are EXTREMELY nationalistic/chauvinist. Haven't you seen them wrapped in flags yelling 'remember the founders!!' And THEY think 'liberals are destroying America.' I dont know, but when someone is destroying something you love, then common sense says you must destroy them right? They are very dangerous in my opinion. All they need is that one person to unite behind and follow to destruction. If Palin or Bachmann didnt have puny IQ's, they could easily have 35% of Americans eating out their hands.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I think it's more useful to think of Tea Party types as having a case of right-wing authoritarianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_authoritarianism). "Fascist" has too many historical overtones and stereotypes associated with it (goose-stepping and smart uniforms), and in any case refers to a specific political philosophy with no direct link to the current Tea Party.

[Salyut]

Get a copy of this book from the library. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism#Robert_Paxton) It will explain everything in more detail then I could.

[chegitz guevara]

Fascist movements come in all sorts of flavors, but they do usually share similarities. Im also not saying that these are the only similarities. Theres probably many more, but these came into my head the quickest. In my very humble opinion I think that these fascist movements share attributes such as:

1) A sense of order. A well known bureaucracy seen as competent and strong willed.

2) Traditionalism, or past glories. Mussolini recalled the greatness of ancient Rome. Hitler used the image of the Teutonic Knights rolling across Europe and the steppe in conquest of the fatherland. Franco told stories of the original reconquest of Spain from the brown moros, and how he too, was delivering Spain back to god. But they all promised a return to a perceived golden era.

3) Militant rank-and-file.


That being said, I think the tea party has everything needed except #1. All those idiots need is a person that unlike Palin, Bachmann, or Perry; isnt a complete and utter *****. Thats quite scary I think.

No.

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=248179891882284

You might not have access to that. I thought I made it available for all.

[Apoi_Viitor]

Get a copy of this book from the library. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism#Robert_Paxton) It will explain everything in more detail then I could.

When I first read the OP, I decided to go pull out my copy of that book and re-read it. Off the top of my head, all I can recall is that Robert Paxton claimed that Fascism wasn't a set of ideas or characteristics but a process. And that the KKK were the first Fascist movement.

[Apoi_Viitor]

if we don't take them seriously, they'll eventually get all their racist, petit bourgeois and reactionary gun owners to do a puctch on the state, and everybody on this forum, if we're to exist outside of conspiracies will have been killed. THEY HAVE THE POSSIBILITY TO WIN ELECTIONS!!! i can't say in words how scary that is.

This is absolutely ridiculous. Both the Tea Party movement and the bourgeios have complete confidence in bourgeios democracy. There's no reason to think, even for a second, that the tea party would support a "putsch" on the state.

[Flying Trotsky]

I took this from an old blog post of mine, but I think it does a decent job of breaking down Fascism into layman's terms:


Nearly a century ago, Communist leader Leon Trotsky defined Fascism as “…Nothing but Capitalist reaction…”. A reaction to what? There are a number of factors that can result in the rise of Fascism but in order to understand the events that cause this reaction, we must first understand what Fascism is.
One’s might make the assumption that Fascism is the same as Nazism. This is only partly true. Nazism is a white supremacist ideology that originated in Germany, based roughly off of a twisted interpretation of the works of Friedrich Nietzsche. Nazism can perhaps best be described as a subdivision of Fascism (in other words, all Nazis are Fascists, not all Fascists are Nazis). Fascism itself could best be described as the polar opposite of Communism. While Communism demands the eventual abolition of the state, Fascism requires the existence of an almost all-powerful centralized government. While Communism calls for the abolition of private property and traditionalism, Fascism is based on conserving Capitalism and tradition. In short, Fascism can be described as a far-right Capitalist police state.


In short, Fascism is conservatism on steroids. The militarization and policing aren't tenets within Fascism, but necessary in order to instate and enforce Fascism.

[Ocean Seal]

I think that everyone has forgotten the most important tenet of fascism: Anti-communism.
The purpose of fascism is to stop whatever communist/anarchist movement exists and is going to disenfranchise the bourgeoisie. Its the hyper-defensive state of capitalism.

[Tim Finnegan]

Get a copy of this book from the library. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism#Robert_Paxton) It will explain everything in more detail then I could.
Griffin's concept of palingenetic ultranationalism is also worth looking into. I'm not sure how neatly they can be synthesised, but they provide interesting perspectives.

[Leftsolidarity]

Fascism is not capitalistic, the Tea Party is ultra-capitalist. While they both suck, they are not the same.

[Tim Finnegan]

Fascism is not capitalistic...
In what sense?

[Leftsolidarity]

In what sense?

Copy and paste:


Fascism was founded during World War I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I) by Italian national syndicalists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_syndicalism) who combined left-wing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics) and right-wing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics) political views, .....It entails a distinctive type of anti-capitalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-capitalism) and is typically, with a few exceptions, anti-clerical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-clericalism). It rejects egalitarianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egalitarianism), materialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism), and rationalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalism) in favour of action, discipline (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discipline), hierarchy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hierarchy), spirit and will (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_(philosophy))

[chegitz guevara]

In the sense that they use words that aren't capitalistic, which completely contradict the very capitalist work they do.

Too many people get confused by what fascists say that they don't pay any attention to what fascists do.

[Astarte]

While it is true the likes of F.T. Marinetti http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marinetti were early on influenced by some anarchistic ideologies, the point is to look at what fascism does in power and how it manages to get to power.

One of the biggest defining factors of fascism in my opinion is its backing by big capital. Essentially the fascist party appeared on the scene of history as a counterfeit "vanguard party" created by the bourgeoisie to defend its propertied interests against Communist revolution.

Once securely placed in state power by monied interests, the fascist party bureaucratizes society to suite war production and a culture of war while at the same time strengthening ties between huge capital, industrialists and corporations and also destroying all real leftist labor movements.

The similarities between the Tea Party and the fascists of the World War II era are striking, especially the big capital backing them and their love for the military industrial complex and their hate for leftist labor movements.

[Magón]

Fascism is not capitalistic

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."

- Benito Mussolini

If Corporatism didn't have Capitalistic ways, then you would be right on Fascism not being Capitalistic.

[the Left™]

I think you are wrong to be honest.

The Tea party can hardly be described as a movement, as it has been very artificially created.

A traditional right wing party, could have all those things you mentioned and that still wouldn't make it facist.

I am not an expert in fascism, but I do think that one important characteristic of it is mass support, militaristic tendencies, chauvinist nationalism, and it has in goal to destroy any independent movement and organization outside the interests of the corporate state.

I think the important thing to notice is that fascism takes being reactionary to an entirely different plane. There is usually a mystique about a past age or societal ideal which no longer exists and has been corrupted by multiculturalism or "progress".

[chegitz guevara]

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."

- Benito Mussolini

If Corporatism didn't have Capitalistic ways, then you would be right on Fascism not being Capitalistic.

Because we should always believe opportunist liars when they talk about themselves.

I dealt with this in my note on Facebook.

[RED DAVE]

More psychological than political, but still useful


Eternal Fascism: Fourteen Ways of Looking at a Blackshirt

By Umberto Eco

1. The first feature of Ur-Fascism is the cult of tradition.

Traditionalism is of course much older than fascism. Not only was it typical of counterrevolutionary Catholic thought after the French revolution, but is was born in the late Hellenistic era, as a reaction to classical Greek rationalism. In the Mediterranean basin, people of different religions (most of the faiths indulgently accepted by the Roman pantheon) started dreaming of a revelation received at the dawn of human history. This revelation, according to the traditionalist mystique, had remained for a long time concealed under the veil of forgotten languages -- in Egyptian hieroglyphs, in the Celtic runes, in the scrolls of the little-known religions of Asia.

This new culture had to be syncretistic. Syncretism is not only, as the dictionary says, "the combination of different forms of belief or practice;" such a combination must tolerate contradictions. Each of the original messages contains a sliver of wisdom, and although they seem to say different or incompatible things, they all are nevertheless alluding, allegorically, to the same primeval truth.

As a consequence, there can be no advancement of learning. Truth already has been spelled out once and for all, and we can only keep interpreting its obscure message.

If you browse in the shelves that, in American bookstores, are labeled New Age, you can find there even Saint Augustine, who, as far as I know, was not a fascist. But combining Saint Augustine and Stonehenge -- that is a symptom of Ur-Fascism.

2. Traditionalism implies the rejection of modernism.

Both Fascists and Nazis worshipped technology, while traditionalist thinkers usually reject it as a negation of traditional spiritual values. However, even though Nazism was proud of its industrial achievements, its praise of modernism was only the surface of an ideology based upon blood and earth (Blut und Boden). The rejection of the modern world was disguised as a rebuttal of the capitalistic way of life. The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.

3. Irrationalism also depends on the cult of action for action's sake.

Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation. Therefore culture is suspect insofar as it is identified with critical attitudes. Distrust of the intellectual world has always been a symptom of Ur-Fascism, from Hermann Goering's fondness for a phrase from a Hanns Johst play ("When I hear the word 'culture' I reach for my gun") to the frequent use of such expressions as "degenerate intellectuals," "eggheads," "effete snobs," and "universities are nests of reds." The official Fascist intellectuals were mainly engaged in attacking modern culture and the liberal intelligentsia for having betrayed traditional values.

4. The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism.

In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge. For Ur-Fascism, disagreement is treason.

5. Besides, disagreement is a sign of diversity.

Ur-Fascism grows up and seeks consensus by exploiting and exacerbating the natural fear of difference. The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.

6. Ur-Fascism derives from individual or social frustration.

That is why one of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups. In our time, when the old "proletarians" are becoming petty bourgeois (and the lumpen are largely excluded from the political scene), the fascism of tomorrow will find its audience in this new majority.

7. To people who feel deprived of a clear social identity, Ur-Fascism says that their only privilege is the most common one, to be born in the same country.

This is the origin of nationalism. Besides, the only ones who can provide an identity to the nation are its enemies. Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged. The easiest way to solve the plot is the appeal to xenophobia. But the plot must also come from the inside: Jews are usually the best target because they have the advantage of being at the same time inside and outside. In the United States, a prominent instance of the plot obsession is to be found in Pat Robertson's The New World Order, but, as we have recently seen, there are many others.

8. The followers must feel humiliated by the ostentatious wealth and force of their enemies.

When I was a boy I was taught to think of Englishmen as the five-meal people. They ate more frequently than the poor but sober Italians. Jews are rich and help each other through a secret web of mutual assistance. However, the followers of Ur-Fascism must also be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak. Fascist governments are condemned to lose wars because they are constitutionally incapable of objectively evaluating the force of the enemy.

9. For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.

Thus pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. It is bad because life is permanent warfare. This, however, brings about an Armageddon complex. Since enemies have to be defeated, there must be a final battle, after which the movement will have control of the world. But such "final solutions" implies a further era of peace, a Golden Age, which contradicts the principle of permanent war. No fascist leader has ever succeeded in solving this predicament.

10. Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology, insofar as it is fundamentally aristocratic, and aristocratic and militaristic elitism cruelly implies contempt for the weak.

Ur-Fascism can only advocate a popular elitism. Every citizen belongs to the best people in the world, the members or the party are the best among the citizens, every citizen can (or ought to) become a member of the party. But there cannot be patricians without plebeians. In fact, the Leader, knowing that his power was not delegated to him democratically but was conquered by force, also knows that his force is based upon the weakness of the masses; they are so weak as to need and deserve a ruler.

11. In such a perspective everybody is educated to become a hero.

In every mythology the hero is an exceptional being, but in Ur-Fascist ideology heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death. It is not by chance that a motto of the Spanish Falangists was Viva la Muerte ("Long Live Death!"). In nonfascist societies, the lay public is told that death is unpleasant but must be faced with dignity; believers are told that it is the painful way to reach a supernatural happiness. By contrast, the Ur-Fascist hero craves heroic death, advertised as the best reward for a heroic life. The Ur-Fascist hero is impatient to die. In his impatience, he more frequently sends other people to death.

12. Since both permanent war and heroism are difficult games to play, the Ur-Fascist transfers his will to power to sexual matters.

This is the origin of machismo (which implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality). Since even sex is a difficult game to play, the Ur-Fascist hero tends to play with weapons -- doing so becomes an ersatz phallic exercise.

13. Ur-Fascism is based upon a selective populism, a qualitative populism, one might say.

In a democracy, the citizens have individual rights, but the citizens in their entirety have a political impact only from a quantitative point of view -- one follows the decisions of the majority. For Ur-Fascism, however, individuals as individuals have no rights, and the People is conceived as a quality, a monolithic entity expressing the Common Will. Since no large quantity of human beings can have a common will, the Leader pretends to be their interpreter. Having lost their power of delegation, citizens do not act; they are only called on to play the role of the People. Thus the People is only a theatrical fiction. There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.

Because of its qualitative populism, Ur-Fascism must be against "rotten" parliamentary governments. Wherever a politician casts doubt on the legitimacy of a parliament because it no longer represents the Voice of the People, we can smell Ur-Fascism.

14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak.

Newspeak was invented by Orwell, in Nineteen Eighty-Four, as the official language of what he called Ingsoc, English Socialism. But elements of Ur-Fascism are common to different forms of dictatorship. All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning. But we must be ready to identify other kinds of Newspeak, even if they take the apparently innocent form of a popular talk show.http://interglacial.com/~sburke/pub/Umberto_Eco_-_Eternal_Fascism.html (http://interglacial.com/%7Esburke/pub/Umberto_Eco_-_Eternal_Fascism.html)

RED DAVE

[RED DAVE]

Also useful:


The 14 Characteristics of Fascism by Lawrence Britt

The 14 characteristics are:

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism

Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottoes, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights

Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause

The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

Supremacy of the Military

Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

Rampant Sexism

The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

Controlled Mass Media

Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

Obsession with National Security

Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

Religion and Government are Intertwined

Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

Corporate Power is Protected

The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

Labor Power is Suppressed

Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts

Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

Obsession with Crime and Punishment

Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

Rampant Cronyism and Corruption

Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

Fraudulent Elections

Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections. http://globalresearch.ca/articles/BRI411A.html

RED DAVE

[Kiev Communard]

The key characteristic of fascism (corporatism) is its insistence on the existence of the supposed "common interests" of "whole nation" and the need for "unity of the nation in international competition". This means that fascism is fundamentally anti-working-class, as it seeks to destroy/prevent the class-struggle practices of the proletariat that breach such spurious "national unity". The other aspects of fascism that were noted here are secondary in comparison with its basically "national" class-collaborationist core.

[redhotpoker]

As part of a study im doing on fascism and the rise of the American right ive been going to tea party meetings. Based on what Ive seen the tea party is not a mass fascist movement but there are quite a few people that have a fascist mindset involved in it. The tea party is like a pregnant woman with fascism growing in its womb.

[clwilson1993]

I'm new, may not be the place for it, but I'm in Charlotte, NC. Gearing up for the DNC next year. Riot anyone? I've got free water.

[Hoi Polloi]

Hmm...the Tea Party have an edge on say Buzz Windrip's Corpo Regime (from Sinclair Lewis' "It Can Happen Here") in that they are seeking a national revolution and are fetishistic about historical/national symbols; whereas Windrip was just a member of the entrenched elites using right-wing populism to get footsoldiers.

However, the Tea Party are also controlled by old-style conservative elements, even though they speak about national revolution against the elites. There is considerably more power over the Tea Party in the hands of the Republican party and billionaire industrialists then there was over Hitler and Mussolini; who used industrialists and conservative elements as pawns and useful idiots.

Still, rather than seeking to create a banana republic/oligarchy (though it would be such), the goal of the Tea Party is to recreate a fictional past - convinced at returning things to a way they never actually were in the early days of the United States. That's patently reactionary to the extreme, and could qualify as a national revolution.

However the specific forms of fascism are missing - the beating heart of even the on the ground right-populist movement of the Tea Party are not Hitler's fronteviks - violence obsessed revenge seekers; the militia movement while growing is more of a mutant cousin.

The fact that the Tea Party aren't really seeking to put the cross on the flag nor invade every which place kind of cements that they're not really national revolutionaries - Rick Perry's evangelical followers or the militia movement that adore Ron Paul have more claim to fascism than they do.

However, considering what "regular" reactionary groups have done to labor and left wing groups in the U.S., the distinction is a fine one to make and offers no guarantees about the future. After all, the Nationalists in Spain were not dominated by the Falange at first. It was a coalition of reactionary interests - landholders, clericalists, militarists, monarchists of feuding varieties.

[chegitz guevara]

Why do so many supposed Marxists insist on looking at the outward expressions of fascism, rather than the social relations? :rolleyes:

[Tim Finnegan]

Why do so many supposed Marxists insist on looking at the outward expressions of fascism, rather than the social relations? :rolleyes:
It's entirely possible to deal with fascism both as a social phenomenon and as an ideological system- and, in fact, the word "fascism" pertains more properly to the latter than the former, given that some such movements, like the NSDAP, fell outside of the ideological tradition of the Partito Nazionale Fascista. All that's necessary is to deal with these ideological structures in their proper material context.

[B0LSHEVIK]

Still, rather than seeking to create a banana republic/oligarchy (though it would be such), the goal of the Tea Party is to recreate a fictional past - convinced at returning things to a way they never actually were in the early days of the United States. That's patently reactionary to the extreme, and could qualify as a national revolution.

However the specific forms of fascism are missing - the beating heart of even the on the ground right-populist movement of the Tea Party are not Hitler's fronteviks - violence obsessed revenge seekers; the militia movement while growing is more of a mutant cousin.

The fact that the Tea Party aren't really seeking to put the cross on the flag nor invade every which place kind of cements that they're not really national revolutionaries - Rick Perry's evangelical followers or the militia movement that adore Ron Paul have more claim to fascism than they do.


1) Exactly.

2) Well, they may not be seeking to alter the flag (that the beloved 'founder's left them), but thats relatively minor, really.. As far as not being imperialists, well, how could they, the empire has already been built. They're against being weak on 'national security' which is code word for maintaining the empire at all costs. The US's fingerprints are already in every nook and cranny of the world. So while, true, they're not outwordly calling for an invasion of Canada or Mexico (yet), thats only because unlike Germany, Italy or Spain in the 1930's, the expansionary phase has long been introduced, to rank and file delight.