Pan-Arab Nation

[Man in the White Shirt]

A friend of mine in school, an Egyptian, is rather into the idea of a Pan-Arab nation from the Atlas Mountains (Morocco) to the Euphrates (Iraq). What are your thoughts on this? Let me give you mine:

A Pan-Arab nation would make social and economically sense, as they are one ethnic group Arab for the most part, there would be some Bedouin and Berbers involved. they speak dialects of the same language, Arabic. Most importantly, they would unify most of the OPEC nations, with the exception of Nigeria and Venezuela. This would stop the Americans current goal of an Arab oil producer being outside of OPEC, the obvious goal of the Iraqi war. With this oil they would have wealth which could be diversified into industrial and agricultural sectors of the economy.

With the increase in industrial sector, they could separate themselves from the economic slavers they are to America. Also with this money they could build up a large, well equipped armed forces. This would halt American expeditions into their territory as well address the Israeli question from a position of strength and unity, rather then one of weakness and discord.

It is this discord and lack of unite that has hurt the Middle Eastern peace process. With three major Arab powers as neighbors, Egypt, Jordan, and Syria, in addition to Lebanon, a disagreement from anyone tends to throw the whole event into disarray. By having a unified front, with unified armies, Israel would realize that negotiations are the only path to continued safety and survival.

[FabFabian]

I think that in general it would be a "nice idea" at best, but on further thought anyone who has any knowledge about the goings on between Arab nations is that there is little that hold them together. Ghadaffi wants to pull out of the Arab League because he feels that it doesn't serve Libya's interests. Other Arab states consider Egypt and Jordan American patsys for signing peace deals with Israel. Lebanon is considered not Muslim enough or too western for its own good. Kuwait is seen as a faux nation full of money grubbing individuals and Saudi? Saudi is put up with only because they are the guardians of Mecca.

I think the Arab League for all of its faults is the best way to have some kind of solidarity between nations of common heritage. As far as being one land mass and administrative nation state...I see that as a no hoper.

[apathy maybe]

The only problem with the idea is that the Arabs are too likly to kill each other then join as a proper block like the EU. And the fact that I would rather they be socialist and they probably wouldn't be.

[Man in the White Shirt]

I agree with both of you, it really is not feasible, however in theory it is a great idea. By uniting they would have about three hundred million people, which would make them the sixith largest nation in the world.

Correct me if I'm wrong, when was the last time two Arab nations went to war? Iran is Persian, so it does not count. Iraq and Kuwait, if you want to call that a war, and others? I really do not know much about the real politiks in the Arab World, so could someone fill me in?

PS Our dear friends the Sauds are not long for throne. Allah Ackbar!

[Smith&Wesson]

The problem with the Arab world is most of them are just as greedy as you or I and would sooner see themselves make a hefty profit than unite as one. Another problem is the Arab world is very tribal. If you have ever been there you will nkow what I am talking about. I lived in the UAE for a year and much of that part of the world is to busy fighting with each other to give a hoot about pan arabism.

[Smith&Wesson]

Originally posted by Man in the White [email protected] 22 2003, 12:27 AM
I agree with both of you, it really is not feasible, however in theory it is a great idea. By uniting they would have about three hundred million people, which would make them the sixith largest nation in the world.

Correct me if I'm wrong, when was the last time two Arab nations went to war? Iran is Persian, so it does not count. Iraq and Kuwait, if you want to call that a war, and others? I really do not know much about the real politiks in the Arab World, so could someone fill me in?

PS Our dear friends the Sauds are not long for throne. Allah Ackbar!
Their have been minor conflicts all over the Middle east during the past 30 or 40 years. To name a few..... Yemen, Oman, Egypt has been on the brink of a war with Sudan and Libya for a couple of decades now. Somalia, Eritrea Ethiopia (This one is especially bad) My fathers friend is a lt. Col with the Canadian Forces and he went over to Eritrea to monitor the cease-fire and they have pretty much the biggest famine in the world right now. I am not sure about the exact numbers but the number of casualties that occured as a direct result of the war is arounds 100,000. Also Syria is currently occupying a huge portion of lebanon. Some other internal Strife includes Kurds in iraq. Shiites and Sunnis, Turks killing kurds etc..... Do some research on the first Gulf war not the US one the original Gulf war between Iraq and Iran then read up on the tanker wars. You will see how much Arab countries like each other when money is at stake.

the tanker war was really the beginning of a major US presence in the middle east. They needed to protect the oil in the gulf.

Hope this gave you all some insite on some of the conflicts in the middle east.

[Umoja]

It's been tried and failed. When Syria and Egypt became one country, Syria pulled out of the Nation because they felt Egypt held to much control. Granted, I'd love to see a solid Arabian nation, but if you look at the Berbers for example, they have pride in their clans as well as the greater arab nations.

[Urban Rubble]

I agree with the sentiment here, it's a nice idea but it won't work. Too much greed, too many bad feelings, old wars would flare up anew.

Also, I think that this would mean the end of Israel. Now, on some levels that would be great, but we all know that they have just as much a right to exist as Palestine.

[acg4_9]

first of all ethupia, iran, turkey and areteria are not arabian countries.
second thing, how many europians died in there wars with each other so how come they forgot all the hate and killing and joined there forces to build the europe block.
third thing, israel -with it's zionist organizations and with the help of mother usa- is like a cancer that is spreading killing the land and causing sickness to the nearby countries.
forth thing, for more than 1200 years the arabs were kind of united so why not now? it's because the great nations and the emperialist countries don't want another great nation with a 300 million population and more than half the resources of oil in the world and which is considered the largest source for scientists , academics, doctors, ....etc to usa and the eu not forgetting that the arabs - with the USSR- helped most of the revolutions that happened in the world against emperialism so the arabs are a nation that wants freedom to all the world this kind of nation is dangerous for all the emperialists and the zionists so they worked on destroying the arabs country after a country so they ended in this kind of way most of the arab leaders came against the peoples will, poverty and ignorance is spreadint wildly, usa israel and lots of organizations are acting against the arabs.
if we need something , it's the union of all free loving people to fight emperialism and its spies.
viva iraq viva palestine.

[redstar2000]

The problem is indeed the failure of Arabs to develop any kind of real national consciousness.

Places like "Syria", "Iraq", "Lebanon", "Jordan", etc. are not really nations at all...they are lines drawn on maps by European imperialists.

The Arab world is still fundamentally pre-capitalist (inspite of those impressive-looking skyscrapers on the shores of the Persian Gulf). Political life there is an extension of family ambition and has almost nothing to do with ideas or principles or even national aspirations.

The Arab world is somewhat like 15th century Italy or, perhaps, 17th century Germany.

Perhaps in another century or so, they will coalesce into a single nation...when they become fully capitalist and put both family and religion firmly behind them (as the west did).

Until then...

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The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

[(*]

Certain things have to take place before a union is formed...

First, the Saudi Royal family should be disposed of. (i.e out of power)
Second, the Iraq government can not be a puppet of the US. (As it will be for the coming years)
Third, another revolution in Iran should take place (I say this, because it seems imminent)
Fourth, Palestine should be an official state
Fifth, acceptance by arab nations on Israel's existence
Sixth (Similar to my first point), all other monarchies and dictators should be disposed of.
Seventh, what redstar2000 said.

[suffianr]

First, the Saudi Royal family should be disposed of. (i.e out of power)

i.e. machine-gunned.

Then we sort out all the other "royal" families, across all the continents.

[Dhul Fiqar]

Originally posted by Smith&[email protected] 22 2003, 09:30 AM



Their have been minor conflicts all over the Middle east during the past 30 or 40 years. To name a few..... Yemen, Oman, Egypt has been on the brink of a war with Sudan and Libya for a couple of decades now.

Yeees... Except of course for the small detail of Sudan not being an Arab country to begin with, and Egypt , Libya and Sudan all being African and not Middle Eastern countries.


Somalia, Eritrea Ethiopia (This one is especially bad) My fathers friend is a lt. Col with the Canadian Forces and he went over to Eritrea to monitor the cease-fire and they have pretty much the biggest famine in the world right now.

So fucking what? Not only are those all non-Arab nations - but they are not even in the Middle East! They are African nations...


Some other internal Strife includes Kurds in iraq.

Ehhh.... Kurds are not Arabs. That is the whole point of the struggle...


Shiites and Sunnis, Turks killing kurds etc.....

Turks are also not Arabs ;)


Do some research on the first Gulf war not the US one the original Gulf war between Iraq and Iran then read up on the tanker wars. You will see how much Arab countries like each other when money is at stake

Eh - Iran is not an Arab country. This was even stated in this thread before you made this laughable reply.


Hope this gave you all some insite on some of the conflicts in the middle east.

LOL - Your "insights" on "the Middle East" are in fact not about the Middle East or the Arab world at all. But thanks for a run-down on the old "Why us yanks don't like dem Muslim folks!!" yet again ;)

--- G.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I'm confused.
Are we talking about all Muslim nations, or just Middle-Eastern nations and the Arabian peninsula, etc?
It's impossible either way.
Too many conflicts based on religion and religious prejudice.
Too many excessively wealthy and powerful nobles in power, again, because of religion.

[Umoja]

If the Syrian and Egyptian governments ever were encroached upon by Isreal, and the west wasn't loaning them any support (and since they can no longer turn to the Soviet Union) I can see them rejoining again. I don't know about many of the other countries. For example, Lebanon is the Belgium/Switzerland of the Middle East, and Iraq is an American pawn. The Eastern Gulf is mostly Monarchies, and North Africans have different traditions.

[suffianr]

A Pan-Arab nation would never be allowed by the Capitalist West. Or a unified India. Or Nusantara, the Indonesian revisionist concept of uniting the entire Malay Archipelago.

These separate blocks would pose an unneccesary threat to Western influence. Why have people with their own set of streamlined ethnic cultures when they can have yours?

[Iepilei]

It's not a practical concept. Not one race should claim control over land - it leads to more trouble than it is worth.

[Man in the White Shirt]

Right but the Arab Middle East is not all that diverse fro what I heard. Anyway there is nothng wrong with a group of people claiming the land they have been living on forever. By claiming it as "theirs" it would help stop the west from abusing them anymore.

[AryaN BLitZKrieG]

Originally posted by Man in the White [email protected] 22 2003, 12:27 AM
Iran is Persian, so it does not count.
Iranians are Aryan. The Aryan race within Iran branches off into several sub-categories. One of those categories include the Persians.

[flayer2]

They need effective leadership... From what I've seen, the arabs are perfectly willing to rally behind a strong leader.

Israel, being an arm of US imperialism stands in the way but it looks like Israel is digging its own grave nowadays.

As US influence declines in the region I think we may see a rise in pan-arab nationalism .

For now a lot depends on how the Iraq situation turns out...