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View Full Version : Organization: Party-movements, councils, syndicates, and paramilitias/paramilitaries?



Die Neue Zeit
20th August 2011, 16:53
I must thank both CPGB comrade Nick Rogers for his article a couple of months ago on the Paris Commune (http://www.revleft.com/vb/paris-commune-inspirational-t155624/index.html), and comrade Psy for his fleshed-out posts on his "revolutionary army" concept, for it gave me further insight into the strengths and weaknesses of various forms of workers institutions and other workers organizations.

The Paris Commune was very much an interplay between the more petit-bourgeois Communal Council and the more proletarian National Guard, and I mean this in terms of their respective class content. The eventual ineptitude of the former, from the Bank of France question to the lack of political oversight over the National Guard itself (by means of installing deputies for political work) (http://www.revleft.com/vb/political-oversight-over-t157827/index.html) to the very late formation of the Committee of Public Safety, suggests the presence of comprador elements amongst the Parisian petit bourgeoisie:


My initial thoughts upon reading this article was that the Commune could have been saved... had the central committee of the National Guard itself become the Committee of Public Safety (read: breakthrough military coup) that the squabblers didn't form until it was too late.

I mean, it was the military actions of the National Guard itself that led to the Paris Commune in the first place! Now:


By staying dormant till they are needed and starting with non-lethal force so at the start they would just be like the Black Bloc just better organized leaving their firearms at home. As a revolutionary situation leads to a uprising the vanguard has to make the call when to take up arms to repel attempts by the bourgeois state to restore bourgeois order, this should be at a point where the revolutionary army can open its doors to recruits and quickly increase its size to match and eventually exceed the numbers of the bourgeoisie forces also the revolutionary situation has created a revolutionary authority parallel to bourgeois authority.

There are long-term pitfalls of the "revolutionary army only" model. Already it's embedded in the words "the vanguard." It conflicts with "a massive armed proletarian army like the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense but scaling it up far more and for the entire proletariat not just a oppressed minority" and "a revolutionary army with hundreds of millions of troops."

Mass political support is needed before a revolutionary situation.

In the short term, workers paramilitary organizations / paramilitias (more than mere "militias") are more capable of handling immediate political issues, during and outside a revolutionary situation, than non-party councils (as opposed to Military Revolutionary Committees) or traditional syndicates ever could, and without the influence of some party-movement. The bureaucratic processes of workers paramilitary organizations / paramilitias, such as when deployed for alternative culture and other social work, help in this regard. However, the requirement of strict centralization is another long-term deficiency.

Psy
20th August 2011, 17:13
In the long term the revolutionary army would be obsolete as it its function would no longer be necessary as there would be no capitalist resistance. The whole bureaucracy of the revolutionary army just collapsed as it no longer can justify its own existence to the society supply it.

Same can be said about the vanguard but to a lesser extent, once there is no threat of counter-revolution the workers don't need a section of more class conciseness leading the revolution as revolution is accomplished and we move into a post-revolutionary phase.

The USSR never reached this phase as global revolution was never achieved, if there was global revolution odds are the USSR bureaucracy would have been quickly snuffed out as their power would be diminished as the USSR would be a have-not nation (we are talking pre WWII) that modernization would be subsidized from the industrial nations outside the USSR.

Susurrus
21st August 2011, 23:08
The ideal organization would be a decentralized democratic organization that combines union, party, and eventually army in one(CNT-FAI=example).

Also here's a good Che quote about violence and revolution:

"The guerrilla fighter will be a sort of guiding angel who has fallen into the zone, helping the poor always and bothering the rich as little as possible in the first phases of the war. But this war will continue on it's course; contradictions will continuously become sharper; the moment will arrive when many of those who regarded the revolution with a certain sympathy at the outset will place themselves in a diametrically opposed position; and they will take the first step into battle against the popular forces."

Nothing Human Is Alien
22nd August 2011, 08:42
Mass political support is needed before a revolutionary situation.

And that's one of the main problems.

Calls for revolution (e.g. a revolutionary program) can't become "popular" in a non-revolutionary period, by definition.

You may be able to build some sort of mass organization, but it won't be revolutionary. You can also build an organization that calls for revolution, but it won't have mass appeal.

Die Neue Zeit
22nd August 2011, 14:25
And that's one of the main problems.

Calls for revolution (e.g. a revolutionary program) can't become "popular" in a non-revolutionary period, by definition.

You may be able to build some sort of mass organization, but it won't be revolutionary. You can also build an organization that calls for revolution, but it won't have mass appeal.

Again, there's a difference between "political revolution" and social revolution. Entering a revolutionary period means heightened times of real class struggle (read: a specific form of political struggle) and mass political support for social revolution.

The lack of permanent organizations can never lead to a real revolutionary situation, as I have noted in my criticisms of 1968 (http://www.revleft.com/vb/pcfs-role-may-t138705/index.html). At the end of the day, the mass of French workers turned to the PCF (albeit with the wrong program) and not to the spontaneist tendencies. At the end of the day, the mass of Russian workers turned to the Bolsheviks and not to the Menshevik-Internationalists, the Left-SRs, or various anarcho-syndicalist groups. Even the mass of German workers for a time turned to the USPD and not to the MSPD, the ultra-left KPD, or the fledgling KAPD. In all instances, a permanent organization existed before any real or perceived revolutionary situation.

Party-movements > workers paramilitary organizations > most syndicalisms > councilism > spontaneism

Die Neue Zeit
24th August 2011, 04:56
In light of recent administrative actions, I should re-emphasize that my thread has nothing to do with guerrilla warfare, people's war, or other such stuff.