Pakistan gives transsexuals own gender category

[LegendZ]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13192077

They are still being discriminated against but at least they are progressing(somewhat) where as the US...

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

I'm fairly surprised by this, regardless of whether or not transsexuals are being discriminated against this is a progressive step in the right direction.

[Bostana]

wow, this is actually great progress, and in Pakistan. A conservative Islamic Country. Smart move for equality by the Pakistan Government.

[Queercommie Girl]

To force every trans person into the "third sex" category (or its own "gender category) is still discrimination. Some trans-women and trans-men want to be legally considered as completely female or male.

Personally, I think even the Iranian system is better than Pakistan's one. At least trans-women are considered as fully women in Iran.

[Queercommie Girl]

However, I'm not 100% certain if contemporary Pakistani law actually forces all trans people to be considered as "third sex/gender" or just gives the people the choice to be "third sex/gender". The two scenarios would be very different. The second situation would be even better than Iran's.

[Ocean Seal]

However, I'm not 100% certain if contemporary Pakistani law actually forces all trans people to be considered as "third sex/gender" or just gives the people the choice to be "third sex/gender". The two scenarios would be very different. The second situation would be even better than Iran's.
I think that the article said it was the latter.


The country's Supreme Court has ruled that those Pakistanis who do not consider themselves to be either male or female should be allowed to choose an alternative sex when they apply for their national identity cards.

:thumbup:
It seems that these conservative Islamic countries which condescending western liberals deride as barbaric and primitive are teaching the west a lesson in social justice.

[Kamos]

Are there people who don't want to be either men or women? I didn't know that. (Hint: that's because there are none. We're all born knowing that we're men or women. Some of us are born into the wrong body, but that's what the surgery is for.) Still, the way it's phrased hints that everyone can choose what he/she considers him/herself, which is good.

[RedAnarchist]

Are there people who don't want to be either men or women? I didn't know that. (Hint: that's because there are none. We're all born knowing that we're men or women. Some of us are born into the wrong body, but that's what the surgery is for.) Still, the way it's phrased hints that everyone can choose what he/she considers him/herself, which is good.

You're confusing biological sex with gender identity. Most people are born either biologically a man or biologically a woman (whilst there are also intersexed people, who used to be known as hermaphrodites), but gender identity is something else.

[Aurora]

Are there people who don't want to be either men or women? I didn't know that. (Hint: that's because there are none.
Yes there are actually http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genderqueer

Hint: don't assume that if you don't know something, it doesn't exist.

[Tim Cornelis]

Weird... The country is extremely conservative.

Makes me suspect it's done for persecuting motives...

[Luc]

You're confusing biological sex with gender identity. Most people are born either biologically a man or biologically a woman (whilst there are also intersexed people, who used to be known as hermaphrodites), but gender identity is something else.

Why aren't they known as hermaphrodites? Is it an offensive term or improper and is intersexed the proper term?:confused:

[Queercommie Girl]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13192077

They are still being discriminated against but at least they are progressing(somewhat) where as the US...

BTW, this title is somewhat inaccurate. "Transsexuals" refer to a sub-category of transgendered people who consider themselves to be 100% the members of the opposite sex relative to the biological sex they were born with. Transsexuals want to be considered as fully men and women, they do not want to have their own "gender category".

Transgendered people who want to have their own gender category belong to a different sub-category - genderqueer people.

[PhoenixAsh]

Why aren't they known as hermaphrodites? Is it an offensive term or improper and is intersexed the proper term?:confused:

Simplified....

Hermaphrodite is a term used for people who have both genitalia / sex characteristics expressed to some extend or another.

This is completely unlike transsexual or transgender

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Simplified....

Hermaphrodite is a term used for people who have both genitalia / sex characteristics expressed to some extend or another.

This is completely unlike transsexual or transgender
There are some intersexed folks who are still transgender and/or transsexual. If you are born intersexed and reasigned to male at birth but feel you identify as a female then you are both intersexed and transsexual. You see, there is some overlap.

[Tenka]

From the title I was afraid this would have something to do with forcing transsexuals into a "third sex" category, which is ridiculous and not progressive at all.
But what is suggested here:

The country's Supreme Court has ruled that those Pakistanis who do not consider themselves to be either male or female should be allowed to choose an alternative sex when they apply for their national identity cards.
that there should be a third option on ID cards is good; it's better than there being two, but ideally the sex/gender field on such cards would not exist.

[PhoenixAsh]

There are some intersexed folks who are still transgender and/or transsexual. If you are born intersexed and reasigned to male at birth but feel you identify as a female then you are both intersexed and transsexual. You see, there is some overlap.

O...yes. The definition of words never really give an accurate description of the reality and the complexity of it.

But the term hermaphrodite is used for a specific anatomical and genetic expression in humans and is based on the focus on genital sex classification. imo a very outdated term. It does however not apply to nor should it be applies to transgender or all intersex issues simply because it only designates a sub category or even people who do npt feel they are transgender or transsexual.

Intersex includes the conditions which are often indicated by hermaphroditism (true or pseudo) but are not limited to these and encompasses the range of "ambiguous genitalia, "dual genitalia" or genetics (so..having both XX and XY genetical strands for example) which do not clearly distinguish themselves or metabloic and hormonal a typical development. For example enlarged clitoris and miniscule penile development are often included in the ummbrella term intersex. Intersex is a term which is used to describe what humans perceive as being a-typical sex development and does not focus, like fe. the term hermaphrodite does, on purely anatomical definitions which limits the range of what sex means.

As I understand it the term itself is often under debate and considered by some people who would fall under the definitions of intersex to be a wrong classification...and its also a term which is very loosely defined.

So yes...to come back to your point...its absolutely possible for a person to both have formerly been a "hermaphrodite" and therefore fall under the definition of intersex and then become transgendered.

Overlaps are always possible.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Sounds like "progressive oppression."

Still very interesting to hear this from Pakistan though.The identity cards are a ray of light though, assume such is passed through.

[Luís Henrique]

Let's first see how this actually works out, before celebrating it. After all, women have long had their own gender category in Pakistan, and it doesn't seem to have spared them any observable bit of discrimination.

Luís Henrique