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The Feral Underclass
21st October 2003, 14:36
First of all I would like to give my own interpretation on what 'Historical Materialism' means and then if I am wrong you can correct me on it...

For me, hisotrical materialism is a theory on how society developed. It basically means that history developed dew to economic necessities of human beings. We had primitive man who existed with hunting animals, he developed the spear to make it easier for him to catch the animals and as hisotry progressed human beings realised that you can capture these animals and bread them isntead of running after them [an example], and took pieces of land. People began to aquire land which took on some mystical form and humans believed in who ever owned the land was some how the most important human being. The artistocracy developed and with it a psychological belief that those who were not artistacratic were in control. So developed the feudal system. As hisotry progressed further so did technology and a new class. A Middle class of small land owners then wanted to take more control over the means of production and so there became revolutions to overthrough monarchies and some of the middle class presured their monarchies to hand over power. Then there was the industrial revolution which catapulted capitalism as a system with an ideology and a theory forcing the farmers and peasents into cities to look for work. And now we are here, in this ultra consumer hyper capitalist world... :unsure:

The method of understanding this development is called the dialectic? the process of change and that one thing has to exist before another thing can come out of it?

Please please please elaberate on this. I was also speaking with two anarchist comrades who said that historical materialism and the dialectic do not really concern anarchism. But why? surely it is the basis of our understanding on how society turned out the way it did...please elaberate?

Scottish_Militant
21st October 2003, 14:50
You are mostly correct on your interpretation comrade. A key and revolutionary moment in history of course was the primative ape beggining to walk, thus freeing the hand which resulted in the development of Labour.

Recommended reading would be the Marxist study guide an introduction to historical materialism (http://www.marxist.com/Theory/study_guide2.html) and Engels brilliant pamphlet The Part played by Labour in the Transition from Ape to Man (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1876/part-played-labour/index.htm)

redstar2000
22nd October 2003, 02:07
Perhaps this thread will be helpful...

http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?a...out+the+crap&s= (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=6371&hl=marxism+without+the+crap&s=)

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

Don't Change Your Name
22nd October 2003, 02:38
Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 21 2003, 02:36 PM
I was also speaking with two anarchist comrades who said that historical materialism and the dialectic do not really concern anarchism. But why? surely it is the basis of our understanding on how society turned out the way it did...please elaberate?
It should be important to us. after all, we can see that during this process, there was also a struggle for power involved. After all, note that always the ruling economical class had the power, mostly in feudalism/monarchies and capitalism.

Morpheus
22nd October 2003, 02:41
Historical materialism and dialectics are two different things, although they are interconnected. For anarchists they are both optional - they aren't automatically a part of anarchist theory but they don't necessarily contradict anarchism either. Many anarchists, including myself, don't believe in either because they are false. Historical materialism really only fits for European history - Asia, Africa, and the western hemisphere didn't really follow that path. And even for Europe it's debatable if it fits. See Marx: A Radical Critique by Alan Carter for a longer debunking.

The Feral Underclass
22nd October 2003, 08:37
Morpheus: Could you please elaberate on their differences and give your oppinion for the development of history and how it ahs effected human beings.