Cubans financed liberation struggles through drugs and bank robberies?

[RadioRaheem84]

Juan Antonio Rodríguez Mernier, a former Cuban Intelligence Major who defected in 1987, says the regime made large amounts of money from drug trafficking operations in the 1970s. The cash was to be deposited in Fidel's Swiss bank accounts "in order to finance liberation movements".[201] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidel_Castro#cite_note-castroinc-200) Norberto Fuentes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norberto_Fuentes), a defected member of the Castro brothers' inner circle, has provided details about these operations. According to him, an operation conducted in cooperation with the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine) helped Cuban intelligence to steal one billion by robbing banks in Lebanon during the 1975–76 civil war. Gold bars, jewelry, gems, and museum pieces were carried in diplomatic pouches (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_immunity) via air route Beirut-Moscow-Havana. Castro personally greeted the robbers as heroes.[201] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidel_Castro#cite_note-castroinc-200)201. ^ a (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidel_Castro#cite_ref-castroinc_200-0) b (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidel_Castro#cite_ref-castroinc_200-1) Maria C. Werlau. "Fidel Castro, Inc.: A global conglomerate" (http://lanic.utexas.edu/project/asce/pdfs/volume15/pdfs/werlau.pdf).

http://www.ascecuba.org/publications/proceedings/volume15/pdfs/werlau.pdf

How much of this is true?

Also the allegations that Castro is a billionaire and siphons off money from numerous industries in Cuba?

[Susurrus]

Fidel denies having swiss bank accounts and said that if anyone proves their existence he will resign. But IDK about the rest.

[RadioRaheem84]

I'm sure most of it is gusano propaganda but the amount of sources in the report seems damning.

[RadioRaheem84]

I know there is a lot of corruption in Cuba, considering that even Raul Castro brought it up, but are the Castro brothers involved?

Does the Castro family run the nation like Kim Jong Il or The Gaddafis?

[Rafiq]

I don't know, I don't think it's something we should worry about too much.

Cuba, after all, isn't really a socialist country after all anyway.

[Susurrus]

I know there is a lot of corruption in Cuba, considering that even Raul Castro brought it up, but are the Castro brothers involved?

Does the Castro family run the nation like Kim Jong Il or The Gaddafis?

I don't think it goes to that extent. There have been numerous sources from both capitalists and socialists that say Fidel doesn't live a life of luxury, but he can hardly be living in the same quality of life as the average Cuban. He has several houses, but there are mundane explanations for that as well. There is a great deal of admiration for him, but in no way the same mandated cult of personality as other "socialist" states have had.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

It's pretty well known in Cuba that Fidel and many other comrades live in relative austerity.

Fidel Castro is probably the only genuinely popular entity in the Cuban government amongst every sector of Cuban society. Even poorer Cubans who are denied opportunities under the current system express their admiration for him. So I really doubt that he has personal bank accounts in Switzerland.

Having said that, it wouldn't surprise me if there was some arrangement where 'secret' bank accounts were set up to siphon off money to fight, or send to, liberation movement. But then, if it's being used for that purpose and not the personal luxury of Fidel, then what is the problem? It's not like the Cuban government can realistically get hold of currency any other way; indeed its currency problems are very well documented.

As for bank robberies etc., whilst I won't condone breaking the law on here, there is certainly a precedent amongst leftist and liberation movements for that sort of thing. Given that the banks take so much money off the ordinary person, I view it as six of one, half a dozen of the other. Not that I advocate breaking the law, though.

[Luc]

Exproriations to fund liberation movements? Sounds normal for any revolutionary movement to me:lol:

As for the corrpution I wouldn't be surprised.:mellow:

Anyone else notice that he uses that "If you can prove X I will resign" on multiple things? Just noticed it, kinda funny.

Edit: I think I remeber reading about them selling drugs when first reading about Castro and Che back when I was a fan of 'em

[Susurrus]

It would depend on what types of drugs we were talking about ie marijuana or other mild drugs go ahead, but the really dangerous and addictive ones are not something leftists should be encouraging.

[RedSonRising]

The Cuban revolution and government was extremely consistent in outlawing drugs and keeping them away from the funding of the era.

I may have read once that Castro had a loose agreement with certain armed insurgents or cartels that smuggled drugs into the US and Central America, in which he let them fly over Cuban airspace with the promise that they would deliver arms to the Sandinistas in Nicaragua and other places. I can't remember where, but it was in a published source I had read for my studies on human rights in Latin America.

Other than that, most accusations of Fidel's wealth come from very suspect sources, and most accounts deny tales of a life of luxury. Cuba's harsh stance on drugs and Che's insistence on their dismissal from consideration are also indications of their absence in any significant role within the State, beyond general corruption. In any case, the Castros certainly do not run Cuba like Gaddafi does Libya.

Bank robberies by the PLF sound interesting though.

[BIG BROTHER]

To be honest given the power Fidelito has within Cuba, Im sure he has some money set aside for himself, but no were near what kim must have in NK. However Cuba still able to provide a lot of social services

As far a stealing banks thats really good! Nothing like expropiating, the capitalists stolen wealth to finance a liberation movement!

[Weezer]

...and no one ever brings up the fact the American government regularly allows cocaine into their country. :rolleyes:

I'm so tired of historical revisionism and nit-picking of reactionaries while deliberately ignoring their own bloody and ugly past.


I don't know, I don't think it's something we should worry about too much.

Cuba, after all, isn't really a socialist country after all anyway.

Of course not. It's a dictatorship of the proletariat.

[khad]

Is this a Swiss Bank Account or a Swiss Bank Account?

Lenin had one too.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/nazi-gold-lenins-swiss-bank-account-discovered-1296919.html


Swiss bank officials sifting through dormant accounts have made an unexpected discovery. Among those not claimed since the Second World War lies an account in the name of Vladimir Ulyanov, containing the princely sum of 12.90 Swiss Francs.

[Aspiring Humanist]

Not a Castroist by any stretch of the imagination but bank robberies are a legitimate source of funding in my opinion (not robbing people, but the banks themselves)

[CHE with an AK]

most of it is gusano propaganda
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/174720_185067448186457_1491825_n.jpg
More like ALL.
How to tell if a gusano is lying = they're speaking.
And this comes from decades of gusano interaction.




amount of sources in the report
Quality over quantity. Especially since the capitalist echo chamber is great at getting lies into the "common wisdom" of the media.





Cuba, after all, isn't really a socialist country after all anyway.
http://theaxemen.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/ayecarumbaoj3.jpg
:rolleyes: I wish I had a mod boom stick.




(Fidel) has several houses, but there are mundane explanations for that as well.
Yeah, "mundane", like the fact that the U.S. has tried to kill him 630 + times over the past 50 + years. Why wouldn't he just sleep in the same place everynight and announce it to everyone. :rolleyes:




bank robberies
You can't "rob" something that already belongs to all of us. When I breathe, I am not stealing oxygen.





I'm so tired of historical revisionism and nit-picking of reactionaries
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-d4iNdBTUlBg/ThSZrSYiz4I/AAAAAAAAFQI/dMK9H6zUkLI/s1600/internet-troll.jpg

... You and me both http://www.chaldeanchat.net/forums/images/smilies/yawn.gif

[Susurrus]

Yeah, "mundane", like the fact that the U.S. has tried to kill him 630 + times over the past 50 + years. Why wouldn't he just sleep in the same place everynight and announce it to everyone. :rolleyes:

That's what I was referring to, mundane rather than counter-revolutionary.

[Philosopher Jay]

This story is anti-communist propaganda. What is it doing on this website?

[Iron Felix]

Any Swiss bank account even remotely connected to him would have been confiscated. Though, The Bolsheviks did much bank robbing to finance their activity. In one broad day light robbery, planned by Stalin, 300,000 roubles were stolen, 40 people killed, 60 wounded, not a single of them a Bolshevik(mainly civilians were killed and hurt, grenades were used, but that's Stalin for you). That's about 3,000,000 dollars adjusted to inflation.

[Susurrus]

Any Swiss bank account even remotely connected to him would have been confiscated. Though, The Bolsheviks did much bank robbing to finance their activity. In one broad day light robbery, planned by Stalin, 300,000 roubles were stolen, 40 people killed, 60 wounded, not a single of them a Bolshevik(mainly civilians were killed and hurt, grenades were used, but that's Stalin for you). That's about 3,000,000 dollars adjusted to inflation.

Actually Stalin had nothing to do with the execution of the plan other than watching from a distant window, and little to do with the planning. This was during the part of his life that he is thought by some to have been an informant for the Tsarist secret police.

[Fulanito de Tal]

RadioRaheem, what is up with your anti-Cuba suggestions? This is the second thread that I'm like, "Yo, wtf is up with this guy?" :glare:

Do you really think that "the Cuban regime" invested in drug trafficking? The only drug trafficking I can imagine would be for the benefit of the sick at no expense of other marginalized populations such as sneaking insulin to Cuba from the US through personal flights.

[Rafiq]

[CENTER]
http://theaxemen.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/ayecarumbaoj3.jpg
:rolleyes: I wish I had a mod boom stick.




So you'd ban anyone that sais cuba isn't a socialist country?

Raul Castro is reforming the country into capitalism.

I don't think the Cuban government has a choice, to be fair. I'm not saying they aren't trying hard enough, but the circumstances regarding Cuba are not good conditions for socialism.

[RadioRaheem84]

RadioRaheem, what is up with your anti-Cuba suggestions? This is the second thread that I'm like, "Yo, wtf is up with this guy?" :glare:

Do you really think that "the Cuban regime" invested in drug trafficking? The only drug trafficking I can imagine would be for the benefit of the sick at no expense of other marginalized populations such as sneaking insulin to Cuba from the US through personal flights.
Usually I dismiss obvious gusano propaganda but I really thought this needed to be addressed.

And second thread? What? was the first? I am usually very supportive of the Cuban Revolution.

[CHE with an AK]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Xu1Sdat4pgU/SQ6RUcTMMeI/AAAAAAAABWs/el-AvP_74XY/s400/Lift_Cuba_embargo_by_Latuff2%5B1%5D.jpg



Raul Castro is reforming the country into capitalism.
No he isn't. They are trying to preserve the socialism structure that already exists on the island and prevent capitalism and U.$. imperialism from taking back over.




the circumstances regarding Cuba are not good conditions for socialism.
Of course they aren't ideal or "good", hell you have a small surrounded and blockaded island of 11 million people in a world of billions of people under capitalism. But that is the difference between theory and reality some times. Cuba has been 'holding down the fort' for 50 + years, waiting for the rest of the World to at least reach their level of socialism, and yet many of their allies succumbed and went in reverse. Any compromises they make are necessary - and anyone who has been to non-resort Cuba for extended periods of time (as I have) understands the amazing accomplishments and results they are able to accomplish with so little help from the rest of the world (and so much hostility and economic terrorism from the World's capitalist superpower 90 miles away).

For a so called "revolutionary leftist" to spread the seed of doubt that the Cuba is even "socialist" in nature, or may not deserve the full support of socialists/Marxists/anti-capitalists etc is a treacherous lie that only benefits the vultures in D.C. and the skull-fucking gusanos in Miami.




So you'd ban anyone that sais cuba isn't a socialist country?
I'd at least restrict them for sheer stupidity and doing the bidding of the Cuban Revolution's enemies. Cuba is SOCIALIST. Saying they are not is an unforgivable thing for any self described revolutionary leftist at this time in the World - when Cuba is under such pressure and assault from all sides. This isn't the time for la-la-land perfectionist ivory tower utopianism, which has only sucked energy from the revolutionary left for years - and set back full global communism for probably another 50 years.

As for "SOCIALISM" there are many variants, you have: Marxian socialism (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Socialism_(Marxism)), Scientific socialism (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Scientific_socialism), Democratic socialism (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Democratic_socialism), Libertarian socialism (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Libertarian_socialism), Market socialism (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Market_socialism), State socialism (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/State_socialism), Utopian socialism (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Utopian_socialism), Revolutionary socialism (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Revolutionary_socialism), Green socialism (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Eco-socialism), Guild socialism (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Guild_socialism), Agrarian socialism (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Agrarian_socialism) etc *


See ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_socialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_socialism)


and the difference between socialism and socialism in the Marxist sense ...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist_socialism

You can internally wring your hands all you want and pontificate in coffee shops from capitalist luxury about how Cuba should be more "socialistic" - but to deny that they even are or to call them capitalist and essentially the same as the U.S. is revisionist bullshit that only a true comemierda would make.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I cannot believe there are still people defending the re-introduction of private property as somehow not Capitalist, and laughably even lauding such moves as 'Socialist', on the premise that 'people can only own one property at a time.'

Believe me, the people in Cuba don't see the past few years as a step towards a more Socialistic, egalitarian society. Even last year, before these reforms, Cuba was a society largely being defined by the greater degree of haves and have nots than in the past, and it was very noticeable.

Fair enough defending the historic gains of the Cuban revolution, but don't spit on the name of our movement by defending the resolutions of the 2011 Cuban Congress as somehow 'Socialist'. Clearly anybody doing so belongs on a petty-bourgeois Socialist forum, where the most important class is that of small business and property dealings.:rolleyes:

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Xu1Sdat4pgU/SQ6RUcTMMeI/AAAAAAAABWs/el-AvP_74XY/s400/Lift_Cuba_embargo_by_Latuff2%5B1%5D.jpg



No he isn't. They are trying to preserve the socialism structure that already exists on the island and prevent capitalism and U.$. imperialism from taking back over.




Of course they aren't ideal or "good", hell you have a small surrounded and blockaded island of 11 million people in a world of billions of people under capitalism. But that is the difference between theory and reality some times. Cuba has been 'holding down the fort' for 50 + years, waiting for the rest of the World to at least reach their level of socialism, and yet many of their allies succumbed and went in reverse. Any compromises they make are necessary - and anyone who has been to non-resort Cuba for extended periods of time (as I have) understands the amazing accomplishments and results they are able to accomplish with so little help from the rest of the world (and so much hostility and economic terrorism from the World's capitalist superpower 90 miles away).

For a so called "revolutionary leftist" to spread the seed of doubt that the Cuba is even "socialist" in nature, or may not deserve the full support of socialists/Marxists/anti-capitalists etc is a treacherous lie that only benefits the vultures in D.C. and the skull-fucking gusanos in Miami.




I'd at least restrict them for sheer stupidity and doing the bidding of the Cuban Revolution's enemies. Cuba is SOCIALIST. Saying they are not is an unforgivable thing for any self described revolutionary leftist at this time in the World - when Cuba is under such pressure and assault from all sides. This isn't the time for la-la-land perfectionist ivory tower utopianism, which has only sucked energy from the revolutionary left for years - and set back full global communism for probably another 50 years.

As for "SOCIALISM" there are many variants, you have: Marxian socialism (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Socialism_(Marxism)), Scientific socialism (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Scientific_socialism), Democratic socialism (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Democratic_socialism), Libertarian socialism (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Libertarian_socialism), Market socialism (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Market_socialism), State socialism (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/State_socialism), Utopian socialism (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Utopian_socialism), Revolutionary socialism (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Revolutionary_socialism), Green socialism (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Eco-socialism), Guild socialism (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Guild_socialism), Agrarian socialism (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Agrarian_socialism) etc *


See ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_socialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_socialism)


and the difference between socialism and socialism in the Marxist sense ...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist_socialism

You can internally wring your hands all you want and pontificate in coffee shops from capitalist luxury about how Cuba should be more "socialistic" - but to deny that they even are or to call them capitalist and essentially the same as the U.S. is revisionist bullshit that only a true comemierda would make.

Saying Cuba isn't Socialist =/= saying Cuba is as bad as the US.

It is possible to recognise the great gains made by Cuba, and to be supported of them as such, without calling it a Socialist nation.

This is a REVOLUTIONARY Socialist forum, comrade. That there are utopian Socialisms, and petty bourgeois Socialisms and even Green Socialisms does not mean that anything using Socialist rhetoric is revolutionary Socialist, Marxist etc. Indeed, people like Tony Blair have used the label Socialist in the past.

The issue is not that everyone calling Cuba a non-Socialist country is against them. I for one am supportive of the progressive nature of the country. But the issue is that progressive =/= Socialist, and good reforms =/= Socialist, even if we want it to be thus. The issue is that, by the Marxian definition of Socialism, Cuba just doesn't even come close to meeting the criteria. There is no dictatorship of the proletariat. There is no workers' control of the means of production. There have been no moves to abolish the state and there (though for obviously almost necessary reasons) is a democratic deficit in terms of national politics.

So yeah, Cuba is a progressive, positive regime and has done much good for its population. But at the end of the day, from a Marxian perspective, it's quite simply not Socialist and aside from going 'OH HERP DERP YOU'RE A CAPITALIST STOOGE', I don't really believe you can prove that it is Socialist.

Also, saying you'd ban/restrict anybody who doesn't say Cuba is Socialist is petty, pathetic and sectarian. How can you expect a left-com, libertarian Socialist or anarchist to really call Cuba Socialist?:rolleyes:

[Rafiq]

Like I said, I know Cuba is trying its hardest, but they dont really have a choice...

[Honggweilo]

To be honest given the power Fidelito has within Cuba, Im sure he has some money set aside for himself, but no were near what kim must have in NK. However Cuba still able to provide a lot of social services


for everyone who believes that utter bullcrap fable, encouraged by forbes magazine, really needs some common sence. Dislike castro, critizise him.. but the man is well in his 80's... what the hell does he need to set money aside for?????? buying his way into heaven???

[Weezer]

Cuba is not socialist. They are a dictatorship of the proletariat.

[RedSonRising]

RadioRaheem, what is up with your anti-Cuba suggestions? This is the second thread that I'm like, "Yo, wtf is up with this guy?" :glare:

Do you really think that "the Cuban regime" invested in drug trafficking? The only drug trafficking I can imagine would be for the benefit of the sick at no expense of other marginalized populations such as sneaking insulin to Cuba from the US through personal flights.


Comrade, I think he is simply asking a question to those more familiar with the intricacies of certain events or subjects. He's one of the more objective posters on this forum, and he hasn't said anything aggressive towards the Cuban Revolution thus far that I've seen. He's just trying to find some information he can see for himself, via the revleft community. More people should ask the hard questions for supporters and critics a like so that we're honest with ourselves and can construct a newer, better politics critically.

[Art Vandelay]

It is true that the Cuban government was involved in corruption and drug dealing, it happened for a short time in the late 80's or early 90's when a couple of government officials got caught up with the Medellin cartel. They used Cuban Boats one or two times to make trips from Colombia to Cuba. You can believe that when Fidel found out about it, he put it to a stop very quickly and punished the culprits to the fullest extent of the revolutionary code. Very dangerous thing they did, which obviously did damage to the image of the revolution, as can be witnessed on this forum as even leftists have bought into the bourgeois lies. If anyone is wondering about my source Fidel talks about it in his spoken biography shortly and I also read something on it at an earlier time.

As for anyone who believes that Fidel is a secret millionaire, unfortunately they would of been duped by another of the great propaganda machines lies. In his last years of serving the country it has been documented that he had not taken a day of in years. Not to mention the man stopped shaving so he could devote the 15mins he saved a day to the revolution, so he gets props for that in my books. :castro:

There is no need to discuss the man's merits as they are well documented, simply take a look at what he has been able to do with his country in a cage and with the U.S. assassins bullets whizzing by him for 50+ years.

[Magdalen]

It is true that the Cuban government was involved in corruption and drug dealing, it happened for a short time in the late 80's or early 90's when a couple of government officials got caught up with the Medellin cartel. They used Cuban Boats one or two times to make trips from Colombia to Cuba. You can believe that when Fidel found out about it, he put it to a stop very quickly and punished the culprits to the fullest extent of the revolutionary code. Very dangerous thing they did, which obviously did damage to the image of the revolution, as can be witnessed on this forum as even leftists have bought into the bourgeois lies. If anyone is wondering about my source Fidel talks about it in his spoken biography shortly and I also read something on it at an earlier time.

I had this in mind too upon reading this and started flicking through 'My Life' to try to find the exact reference. There's actually an entire chapter dedicated to this episode, known as the 'Ochoa case', after the former revolutionary leader at the heart of the drug trafficking ring, which involved some of the most vile criminal elements around, including Pablo Escobar, and various others who also consorted with right-wing paramilitaries in Colombia. Fidel certainly doesn't mince his words - those involved committed 'grave acts of treason', placing the nation and the revolution in 'tremendous danger'. Indeed, in Cuba, 'attempting to use the national territory for large-scale drug transport' carried the death penalty until the moratorium of 2003.

I severely doubt these allegations are true - rather than loosely bandy them around bringing the Cuban Revolution into disrepute, we should challenge the bourgeois shysters who propagate them!