French Foreign Legion

[Silleuksa]

So I'm in school right now majoring in Spanish and minor in Latin American studies. I'm going to have a huge amount of debt when I graduate, so I figured I'd join the FFL after graduation because they have good pay, it will be a life long experience and I love travelling. My question to you is is this counterrevolutionary? I am not proficient on Marxist thought but I have declared myself to be a socialist. I realize if a socialist uprising were to happen in French guyana or any other french dependencies the FFL would be sent to squash it
If I am doing this not for political or military reasons but for economic, is it still counter-revolutionary and should I feel like a bad person for even considering it?
Thanks

[CommieTroll]

I've considered joining myself when I get out of school and I even wondered the same thing. From what I know they serve in Afghanistan which is a conflict that I don't support and personally wouldn't take part in. Do you know much about them? I've heard stories that training can be pretty brutal and harsh but I've been told that it's very rewarding. Once you join you are a member for life. They're a very professional, highly skilled military unit but the experience isn't for everyone. I hoped this helped, you should look for info about them on Google, try get first hand accounts of what service is like because those recruiting websites are mostly glamorized. Make sure you don't have a criminal record and be prepared to give up most of life's luxuries.

[thesadmafioso]

It is incredibly counter revolutionary to join into any organization which engages in acts of imperialism, and I would say that it is even more so in your case given the nature of the role of the French Foreign Legion. They are essentially mercenaries that are hired to carry out the dirty work of Frances military affairs, the bits that are too undesirable for it to even consider using its actual armed forces.

I'd argue that it in direct contradiction to the concept of revolutionary defeatism and that it an undeniably defencist position to adopt.

[LegendZ]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

If you join the FFL you are basically an Imperialist tool.

You will be sent to crush any attempts of Socialist revolutions or you will spend many months in a French prison getting acquainted with Mr. Ass and Mr. Kicking where you won't be useful to the socialist cause. That said how far are you into college? You could become a translator for tourists if you go to Latin America. We have some users in Latin American that could help you out and see what you could do with your skills and education.

That said you're majoring in Spanish and minoring in Latin American studies. Wouldn't joining the FRENCH foreign legion be kind of redundant? :lol:

[Silleuksa]

I've considered joining myself when I get out of school and I even wondered the same thing. From what I know they serve in Afghanistan which is a conflict that I don't support and personally wouldn't take part in. Do you know much about them? I've heard stories that training can be pretty brutal and harsh but I've been told that it's very rewarding. Once you join you are a member for life. They're a very professional, highly skilled military unit but the experience isn't for everyone. I hoped this helped, you should look for info about them on Google, try get first hand accounts of what service is like because those recruiting websites are mostly glamorized. Make sure you don't have a criminal record and be prepared to give up most of life's luxuries.


I've read two books and watched a few doc's about them, the training regimen sounds incredibly tough but even if i failed it would still be a good experience.
I don't have a record and as a college student I can't afford most of lifes luxuries anyway

[thesadmafioso]

That said you're majoring in Spanish and minoring in Latin American studies. Wouldn't joining the FRENCH foreign legion be kind of redundant? :lol:

The French Foreign Legion is comprised entirely of foreigners, I'm actually pretty sure that French citizens can't even join the organization. They are also exclusively deployed abroad and outside of France, I believe they train in Africa primarily.

There really isn't much that is actually French about the French Foreign Legion.

[Silleuksa]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

If you join the FFL you are basically an Imperialist tool.

You will be sent to crush any attempts of Socialist revolutions or you will spend many months in a French prison getting acquainted with Mr. Ass and Mr. Kicking where you won't be useful to the socialist cause. That said how far are you into college? You could become a translator for tourists if you go to Latin America. We have some users in Latin American that could help you out and see what you could do with your skills and education.

That said you're majoring in Spanish and minoring in Latin American studies. Wouldn't joining the FRENCH foreign legion be kind of redundant? :lol:

Becoming an ass-kisser for an incredibly bourgeois industry (tourism) is the last thing I want to do. I'm majoring in this because I love the culture and people, I don't really care if I don't have a job specific to my major, aside from living in latin america
also I would welcome the chance to learn French

[thesadmafioso]

Becoming an ass-kisser for an incredibly bourgeois industry (tourism) is the last thing I want to do. I'm majoring in this because I love the culture and people, I don't really care if I don't have a job specific to my major, aside from living in latin america
also I would welcome the chance to learn French

But killing people for the bourgeois, now there is a progressive route to go!

[Silleuksa]

Why are US military and police viewed as oppressed proletariat who join for economic reasons but someone who is thinking of joining a multicultural military to get out of debt is a tool of the bourgeois

[La Peur Rouge]

Why are US military and police viewed as oppressed proletariat who join for economic reasons but someone who is thinking of joining a multicultural military to get out of debt is a tool of the bourgeois

They are both proletarian and a tool of the bourgeoisie.

[khad]

The entire purpose of the French Foreign legion, since its creation, has been to suppress colonial uprisings.

The Foreign Legion is not the regular French army, and being a cop is arguably less reactionary.

[Hiero]

It all depends how serious you take your socialist leanings to be.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

The French Foreign Legion is comprised entirely of foreigners, I'm actually pretty sure that French citizens can't even join the organization. They are also exclusively deployed abroad and outside of France, I believe they train in Africa primarily.

There really isn't much that is actually French about the French Foreign Legion.

The French Foreign Legion is part of the France's armed forces, how is that not French? There are French people in it but since it is meant for foreigners they typically claim Swiss or Belgian citizenship.


Why are US military and police viewed as oppressed proletariat who join for economic reasons but someone who is thinking of joining a multicultural military to get out of debt is a tool of the bourgeois

France is a NATO member state, participating in the wars against Libya, Afghanistan, and recently in Côte d'Ivoire as well. It's no less a tool of the bourgeoisie. The US military is multicultural too, that's no reason to sign up.

[thesadmafioso]

The French Foreign Legion is part of the France's armed forces, how is that not French? There are French people in it but since it is meant for foreigners they typically claim Swiss or Belgian citizenship.

Well, it is not primarily composed of French citizens and it preforms a role well beyond that of a traditional national army. They resemble a band of mercenaries more than they do a national military unit.

[La Comédie Noire]

Well is joining the French Foreign Legion simply something you must do? If you need money, you need money, but try to understand how antithetical joining the state is to communism/ anarchism. In fact it may require you to think of what exactly being a leftist means to you. If communism is something you picked up two months ago, it may not be wise to base important life decisions around it. Although in my, admittedly biased, opinion I think it is a good theoretical and practical system

Not to mention the many other things you could do with the Spanish language that involves traveling, that is not military related. In fact, do you know France in addition to English and Spanish?

It sounds like to me you could do better than the French Foreign Legion.

[Susurrus]

I would advise joining another Foreign Legion that is not involved with the War in Iraq if you don't approve of it (such as the Russian Foreign Legion). Otherwise, I would say that joining will give you training to share with other revolutionaries, and give you a new perspective to criticize capitalism from. Though, why not just join the regular army of where you live? Probably less obviously hypocritical missions and such.

[PhoenixAsh]

The French Foreign Legion is open to French Recruits and about a quarter of the recruits are French...that is excluding the officer core which is almost entirely composed of French officers with only a handfull being promoted up the ranks.

It is arguably the most reactionary of all armed forces....you will be joining the ranks of ex-Tsarists, former Waffen SS, Yugoslavian Chetniks and other such lofty and worthy soldiers...who managed to escape responsibility for their crimes in droves through the active recruiting policies of the LE which welcomed them with open arms. Its pursues a course of seeking active involvement in most of the worlds military hotpots and there is very little you can do or say which will not get you send where they want you to go...so if you do not want to serve in Iraq or Afghanistan...thats just something you have to learn to live with. It solely serves Frances imperialist interests.

[Iron Felix]

The Left needs more revolutionaries with military training, this is certain.

[Bronco]

I would advise joining another Foreign Legion that is not involved with the War in Iraq if you don't approve of it (such as the Russian Foreign Legion). Otherwise, I would say that joining will give you training to share with other revolutionaries, and give you a new perspective to criticize capitalism from. Though, why not just join the regular army of where you live? Probably less obviously hypocritical missions and such.

Do the Russians actually have a foreign legion as such? I thought the French Foreign Legion was the only one of its kind, I know Spain has one but that's just a "foreign legion" in name really

But anyway the FFL are basically Imperialist mercenaries, and it's a fucking hard life as well, they''re just sent to do all the most difficult jobs that they won't give the French army and they won't give a shit whether you live or die, the training on it's own looks brutal enough

[Susurrus]

Do the Russians actually have a foreign legion as such? I thought the French Foreign Legion was the only one of its kind, I know Spain has one but that's just a "foreign legion" in name really


Well, you can join the Russian Army as a foreign national, but I don't know if they have a part of it specifically for foreigners. I was just going off the wikipedia article with the name.

[PhoenixAsh]

Many countries had foreign legions at one point or another. The only one original was the Dutch KNIL which actually was set up before the French one. The rest are all emulations of the LE. The Spanish one stopped recruiting foreigners. The Russian one is for Russians who live abroad.

Currently the French LE is the only official one. But hey...you can always join Blackwater or another mercenary band...

[piet11111]

The legionnaires are total bastards where they employ the worst humanity has to offer and make them march through deserts with little more then 1 glass worth of water to toughen them up.

These people make blackwater (XE as they are currently known) seem like respectable soldiers.

[danyboy27]

its definitively the worst thing to do if you are a marxist.

Its kinda like being a United state marine, but with more blood, guts and supression of third world countries.


To this day, the legion is still involved in various operation trought the middle east and africa.

even the french people consider the legion to be something fundamentally disgusting and imperialist.

something in between of saddam republican guard and the united state marines corps.

[The Douche]

The Left needs more revolutionaries with military training, this is certain.

Oh really its certain? I don't think you'll find many people on here that share your (incorrect) conclusion.




Is it reactionary to join the legion? Uh... fuck yes? The purpose of the FFL is enforce France's imperialist hegemony in its colonies. The fuck... you major in latin american studies because you love the history and culture, so now you wanna join the legion and get stationed there so you can prevent their freedom? You can't see the inherent contradictions there? You really have to ask "is joined the military of an imperialist nation reactionary"?

[LegendZ]

The French Foreign Legion is comprised entirely of foreigners, I'm actually pretty sure that French citizens can't even join the organization. They are also exclusively deployed abroad and outside of France, I believe they train in Africa primarily.

There really isn't much that is actually French about the French Foreign Legion.French citizens can be FFL. And do you really think that the French FOREIGN Legion is going to be some French cultural course?

[CommieTroll]

Oh really its certain? I don't think you'll find many people on here that share your (incorrect) conclusion.




Is it reactionary to join the legion? Uh... fuck yes? The purpose of the FFL is enforce France's imperialist hegemony in its colonies. The fuck... you major in latin american studies because you love the history and culture, so now you wanna join the legion and get stationed there so you can prevent their freedom? You can't see the inherent contradictions there? You really have to ask "is joined the military of an imperialist nation reactionary"?

I think he meant military training in general or even how to properly use a firearm

[The Douche]

I think he meant military training in general or even how to properly use a firearm

I know what he meant...

[thesadmafioso]

French citizens can be FFL. And do you really think that the French FOREIGN Legion is going to be some French cultural course?

Oh, I was not aware of that. I'm still fairly certain that it's a rare occurrence for them to join the organization though.

And I never really said that I thought the French Foreign Legion would be some sort of cultural course or that it would be French, I actually said quite the opposite of that in my comment about the lack of most anything French about the FFL beyond the interests of French imperialism they serve.

[piet11111]

The only language you are allowed to speak is french and you will be issued a french name to use if you leave you are given the choice to either keep your legion name with a french passport or get your old identity back.

Clearly such a setup serves the needs of wanted criminals perfectly as the ultimate way to disappear.

Rende van de kamp wrote a book called onder vreemde flag (under foreign flag) about his military experiences where he also writes about his foreign legion experiences (van de kamp is a known rightwing figure but its an interesting book none the less)
If you can find an english translation i would recommend reading it if you are still considering the legion.

[danyboy27]

I think he meant military training in general or even how to properly use a firearm

you can do that on a personnal basis without the FFL.

[CommieTroll]

you can do that on a personnal basis without the FFL.

I know you can, if a person is genuinely interested they can get firearm training but not proper military training. In the US, sure, you can legally obtain a gun but not in my country or most Western European countries

[LegendZ]

I know you can, if a person is genuinely interested they can get firearm training but not proper military training. In the US, sure, you can legally obtain a gun but not in my country or most Western European countriesYeah you can lol. You just need to have the money.;)

[CommieTroll]

Yeah you can lol. You just need to have the money.;)

No, you can't in Ireland guns are illegal unless you are a member of a gun club or a farmer and even then you can only have shotguns

[Column No.4]

Me and a couple of my mates have been looking into possible enlistment as well.

[28350]

pretty good movie on the ffl
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beau_travail

[eric922]

The only thing I can think of that would be more anti-socialist is becoming the CEO Goldmansachs or some other Wall Street bank.

[Column No.4]

The only thing I can think of that would be more anti-socialist is becoming the CEO Goldmansachs or some other Wall Street bank.

If it makes any difference im in it for the fight, something the left doesnt seem willing to do.

[eric922]

If it makes any difference im in it for the fight, something the left doesnt seem willing to do.
"In it for the fight." I'm guess you've never actually gone to war before, because those who have don't like it, I've never gone either, but I know enough to know that there is nothing glorious or fun about killing.

As to the left being unwilling to fight, that is completely ahistorcal considering the various socialist revolutions that occurred in the 20th century. Give the Left a cause worth fighting for and I'm sure many would fight, but fighting for the cause of imperialism is not worth fighting or killing for. The Left fights for the working class, and they mostly do it by organizing strikes, sit-ins, education, etc. That is what needs to be done right now.

Though if you really want to go to war, I'm sure there is some socialist party fighting against imperialism in Asia or Africa and I bet they'd welcome all the help they can get.

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

If it makes any difference im in it for the fight, something the left doesnt seem willing to do.

yeah uh, no offence but wat?

[electro_fan]

Lol, fantastic

[Column No.4]

yeah uh, no offence but wat?

A. I love a good fight, the Legion fights.

B. The left doesnt fight for anything, it debates, thats why its getting nowhere.

[electro_fan]

oh my god you utter tools

[Column No.4]

oh my god you utter tools

What are you on about?

[electro_fan]

you want to join france's overseas semi-paramilitary wing "cos you love a good fight and the left is getting nowhere"

jesus christ, no wonder we're getting nowhere with tools like you, you have no politics, you're just some moron who likes guns

[electro_fan]

why don't you join the EDL, they're always up for a good fight too i hear especially when they've got a few cans of stella down them

[Column No.4]

you want to join france's overseas semi-paramilitary wing "cos you love a good fight and the left is getting nowhere"

jesus christ, no wonder we're getting nowhere with tools like you, you have no politics, you're just some moron who likes guns

No, i believe what i believe and id die for it but i have to eat as well and im willing to put my beliefs aside to live poor rather than uphold my beliefs and not have a pot to piss in, especially when the people that share my beliefs are all talk.

[eric922]

A. I love a good fight, the Legion fights.

B. The left doesnt fight for anything, it debates, thats why its getting nowhere.
You want a fight? Here is a Marxist group currently engaged in a guerrilla war against one of the most right-wing and oppressive regimes in South America, Columbia. Granted, I don't agree with their tactics such as kidnapping or the drug trade, but hey they can't be harming people anymore than the FFL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Armed_Forces_of_Colombia

[Column No.4]

You want a fight? Here is a Marxist group currently engaged in a guerrilla war against one of the most right-wing and oppressive regimes in South America, Columbia. Granted, I don't agree with their tactics such as kidnapping or the drug trade, but hey they can't be harming people anymore than the FFL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Armed_Forces_of_Colombia

Then it makes no difference, does it?

[electro_fan]

You want a fight? Here is a Marxist group currently engaged in a guerrilla war against one of the most right-wing and oppressive regimes in South America, Columbia. Granted, I don't agree with their tactics such as kidnapping or the drug trade, but hey they can't be harming people anymore than the FFL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Armed_Forces_of_Colombia
fantastic

[eric922]

Then it makes no difference, does it?
Yes it does make a difference. The FFL is actively fighting for and imposing imperialism. The Colombian resistance is fighting against a right-wing dictatorship that is a puppet to the western imperialist powers. In one case you are actively imposing imperialism and in the other you are fighting against it. That is the difference. Granted,I wouldn't recommend joining either one, but if you want a fight,then at least don't fight for imperialism and capitalism.

[Column No.4]

Yes it does make a difference. The FFL is actively fighting for and imposing imperialism. The Colombian resistance is fighting against a right-wing dictatorship that is a puppet to the western imperialist powers. In one case you are actively imposing imperialism and in the other you are fighting against it. That is the difference. Granted,I wouldn't recommend joining either one, but if you want a fight,then at least don't fight for imperialism and capitalism.

Both have been accused of killing civilians, FARC has been accused of executing hostages.

[electro_fan]

please, both of you, tell me you are joking

[eric922]

Both have been accused of killing civilians, FARC has been accused of executing hostages.
I'll be honest I'm not an expert on FARC, and I have heard that before, but I wasn't sure how accurate it was since I've learned that the mass-media labels any resistance group terrorists whether they really are or not. Like I said, I don't advise joining either of them and I don't approve of FARC's actions, but I know for a fact the FFL is no better than Blackwater.

[eric922]

please, both of you, tell me you are joking
Me? Like I said I don't approve of FARC or the FFL, but the poster I was replying to said that there were no leftists organizations up for a good fight and I pointed them out to prove a point. I don't agree with them, and I think someone who goes to war simply because they "want a good fight" is very ignorant of what war is like. I've always felt violence should be a last resort and right now the role of the left should be educating and agitation.

[Column No.4]

I'll be honest I'm not an expert on FARC, and I have heard that before, but I wasn't sure how accurate it was since I've learned that the mass-media labels any resistance group terrorists whether they really are or not. Like I said, I don't advise joining either of them and I don't approve of FARC's actions, but I know for a fact the FFL is no better than Blackwater.

Aaah, the FFL is held to Frances UCMJ, Blackwater is not held to US law because it operates outside of the US nor the UCMJ because its the not military.

[bcbm]

im willing to put my beliefs aside to live poor rather than uphold my beliefs and not have a pot to piss in, especially when the people that share my beliefs are all talk

you clearly don't have any beliefs. 'all talk' lol what are you doing? talking shit and trying to go be a footsoldier for imperialism because you 'like a good fight' what a joke

[eric922]

Aaah, the FFL is held to Frances UCMJ, Blackwater is not held to US law because it operates outside of the US nor the UCMJ because its the not military.
You are still fighting for imperialism and capitalism. Whether or not they abide by French law or not doesn't really matter because France is an imperialist capitalist state.

Like I've said before, if you want to actually help the cause of the left, go and walk the picket lines if any unions near you go on strike, hell just help educate people on leftist thought. That will do far more good than joining either of the organizations we are talking about. However, I'm not sure you really want to help the left since you are considering becoming an imperialist foot solider.

[Column No.4]

you clearly don't have any beliefs. 'all talk' lol what are you doing? talking shit and trying to go be a footsoldier for imperialism because you 'like a good fight' what a joke

Ha, people put their beliefs aside every day because they have to make a living. How many people on this forum work for Wal-Mart, some sweatshop retail fashion chain or one of the countless other immoral corporations?

[electro_fan]

you're comparing joining a mercenary organisation to working in mcds?

are you fucking serious?

[thesadmafioso]

You are still fighting for imperialism and capitalism. Whether or not they abide by French law or not doesn't really matter because France is an imperialist capitalist state.

Like I've said before, if you want to actually help the cause of the left, go and walk the picket lines if any unions near you go on strike, hell just help educate people on leftist thought. That will do far more good than joining either of the organizations we are talking about. However, I'm not sure you really want to help the left since you are considering becoming an imperialist foot solider.

I don't know about you, but I'm not sure I want this guy 'educating' anyone if this is how he thinks.

[Column No.4]

you're comparing joining a mercenary organisation to working in mcds?

are you fucking serious?

I never said McDonalds, did i?

[Column No.4]

I don't know about you, but I'm not sure I want this guy 'educating' anyone if this is how he thinks.

Like i said, i have beliefs but i live in the real world as well.

[bcbm]

Ha, people put their beliefs aside every day because they have to make a living. How many people on this forum work for Wal-Mart, some sweatshop retail fashion chain or one of the countless other immoral corporations?

as far as i know, your average wage earner at wal-mart has absolutely no say about where the products come from or how the company in general is run whereas a member of the french foreign legion will be physically enforcing imperialism at the barrel of a gun. you're making excuses, and asinine ones at that. and even if working for whatever 'immoral corporation' could be considered 'setting aside your beliefs' i think it would probably still be in a much different category than being a soldier in an imperialist army. hell, haven't you ever heard of 'salting?'

[electro_fan]

I never said McDonalds, did i?
you think that some poor sod working behind the checkout in walmart is like someone choosing to go to a foreign country, in the service of another country not their own, and shooting people because guns are cool etc?

[bcbm]

Like i said, i have beliefs but i live in the real world as well.

me too, i've survived many years on my own just fine without joining an imperialist army

[thesadmafioso]

Ha, people put their beliefs aside every day because they have to make a living. How many people on this forum work for Wal-Mart, some sweatshop retail fashion chain or one of the countless other immoral corporations?

There is nothing dishonest in engaging in the act of labor, the real issue is the manner in which it is exploited by the capitalist class.

Labor is the most potent weapons wielded by the working class, it is what empowers them to bring the mode of capitalist economic production to a halt and it is what brings them to class consciousness. Your statements on this matter are severely deprived of a materialist basis, I'm afraid.

[Column No.4]

Hey, i know what tear gas tastes like, ive felt the impact of a rubber bullet, ive shed blood for what i believe in, how many people on here can say they have?

[electro_fan]

Like i said, i have beliefs but i live in the real world as well.
you are not economically compelled to join another country's military you stupid fuck - it will probably cost you more to join than you'll actually earn ffs ...

[Commissar Rykov]

Hey, i know what tear gas tastes like, ive felt the impact of a rubber bullet, ive shed blood for what i believe in, how many people on here can say they have?
I would just question what kind of cause since you seem reactionary as fuck at times.

[Column No.4]

you are not economically compelled to join another country's military you stupid fuck - it will probably cost you more to join than you'll actually earn ffs ...

Thats what i was waiting for, the personal attacks, bravo.

[electro_fan]

the real world :D

[bcbm]

Hey, i know what tear gas tastes like, ive felt the impact of a rubber bullet, ive shed blood for what i believe in, how many people on here can say they have?

lots of people who have nothing to do with pro-revolutionary discourse can say the same. doesn't make their viewpoints worth anything. i've done all that, i don't think it matters anymore than someone who has only organize union drives or whatever

[eric922]

I don't know about you, but I'm not sure I want this guy 'educating' anyone if this is how he thinks.
Good point, I think he may be the one who needs the education. Since we are discussing Imperialism, I recommend he start with this: http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/

I'm not a Leninist, but Lenin has some very good insights into the nature of imperialism and capitalism.

[Column No.4]

You lot arent short on aggression, ill give you that, but you are short on attention to detail. I said id entertained the thought and you lot reacted like im posting from a FOB in Algeria or a hedgehog in Indochina.

[thefinalmarch]

ITT: strong leftist mercenaries (http://www.revleft.com/vb/trash-t139844/index.html)

[bcbm]

You lot arent short on aggression, ill give you that, but you are short on attention to detail. I said id entertained the thought and you lot reacted like im posting from a FOB in Algeria.

no its just a really silly idea for a leftist to entertain

[Commissar Rykov]

You lot arent short on aggression, ill give you that, but you are short on attention to detail. I said id entertained the thought and you lot reacted like im posting from a FOB in Algeria.
With your hatred of American Proles and now this shit I am surprised you are still unrestricted I figured the 9/11 thread alone would have lead to a restriction. I guess you are lucky so far.

[electro_fan]

you lot arent short on aggression

hahahahahahahahahahaha :D

[Column No.4]

With your hatred of American Proles and now this shit I am surprised you are still unrestricted I figured the 9/11 thread alone would have lead to a restriction. I guess you are lucky so far.

There you go again with your lack of attention to detail, generalizing past conversations. Maybe i havent been restricted because the left doesnt want to end up no different from the right, silencing anyone that doesnt follow lockstep.

[Commissar Rykov]

There you go again with your lack of attention to detail, generalizing past conversations. Maybe i havent been restricted because the left doesnt want to end up no different from the right, silencing anyone that doesnt follow lockstep.
There you go again not replying to anything when being called out and blaming it on everyone else. So are you a troll or just an ignorant reactionary? That is the real question Horatio.

[eric922]

There you go again with your lack of attention to detail, generalizing past conversations. Maybe i havent been restricted because the left doesnt want to end up no different from the right, silencing anyone that doesnt follow lockstep.
Oh come on, there are like a dozen different tendencies on this site that all differ in varying ways, there is no lockstep.

[Column No.4]

There you go again not replying to anything when being called out and blaming it on everyone else. So are you a troll or just an ignorant reactionary? That is the real question Horatio.

What was there to call out, you stating how suprised you are i havent been restricted, and where did i blame anything on anyone else?

[Column No.4]

Oh come on, there are like a dozen different tendencies on this site that all differ in varying ways, there is no lockstep.

I didnt say there was, however Rykovs statement about my lack of being restricted makes one think otherwise.

[eric922]

I didnt say there was, however Rykovs statement about my lack of being restricted makes one think otherwise.
Well you are posting about joining an imperialist army simply because you like a good fight, so that does seem rather reactionary.

[Commissar Rykov]

Well you are posting about joining an imperialist army simply because you like a good fight, so that does seem rather reactionary.
It doesn't seem it is. He wants to join an organization that prides itself on subjugating French Colonial Possessions that is reactionary as fuck. I mean there is just no way around it other than just admitting one is a reactionary which I have no problem with just admit it already.

[Column No.4]

Well you are posting about joining an imperialist army simply because you like a good fight, so that does seem rather reactionary.

One member posted about his entertainment of the thought and i simply agreed with him that i too have entertained the thought.

[eric922]

One member posted about his entertainment of the thought and i simply agreed with him that i too have entertained the thought.
I've noticed the OP hasn't been defending his position as strongly as you have, perhaps because he is thinking about what we have said and rethinking his position. You, on the other hand I've dug in your heels when it comes to defending the joining of an imperialist capitalist army.

[Column No.4]

It doesn't seem it is. He wants to join an organization that prides itself on subjugating French Colonial Possessions that is reactionary as fuck. I mean there is just no way around it other than just admitting one is a reactionary which I have no problem with just admit it already.

Id like to hear some current proof of French colonialism. Theyre no longer in Algeria, the Legions home, theyre no longer in Indochina, theyre no longer in Cote D'ivoire, , theyre no longer in Morocco and theyre no longer in Djibouti, and if they are its because theyve been asked to do so merely as peacekeepers.

[Commissar Rykov]

Id like to hear some current proof of French colonialism. Theyre no longer in Algeria, the Legions home, theyre no longer in Indochina, theyre no longer in Cote D'ivoire, , theyre no longer in Morocco and theyre no longer in Djibouti, and if they are its because theyve been asked to do so merely as peacekeepers.
Peacekeepers?:lol: Ah I love how you defend Bourgeois Occupation of nations you truly are the most amazing reactionary ever.

[Column No.4]

I've noticed the OP hasn't been defending his position as strongly as you have, perhaps because he is thinking about what we have said and rethinking his position. You, on the other hand I've dug in your heels when it comes to defending the joining of an imperialist capitalist army.

Maybe because there seems to be a trend on this forum of pounding the nail that sticks out. Ive already been attacked once simply for saying that 9/11 didnt make me feel sorry for the US.

[Commissar Rykov]

Id like to hear some current proof of French colonialism. Theyre no longer in Algeria, the Legions home, theyre no longer in Indochina, theyre no longer in Cote D'ivoire, , theyre no longer in Morocco and theyre no longer in Djibouti, and if they are its because theyve been asked to do so merely as peacekeepers.
From their fucking recruitment website:
Today, the legionnaires are engaged in Afghanistan, Kosovo, Chad, the Ivory Coast and anywhere else they might be needed by France.

http://www.legion-recrute.com/en/

[Column No.4]

Peacekeepers?:lol: Ah I love how you defend Bourgeois Occupation of nations you truly are the most amazing reactionary ever.

Well lets tally it up, they were asked to Cote D'ivoire to put down the violence that was terrorizing the general population and they were asked to stay in Djibouti to help keep that countries terrorism down. Do give some examples of their current day colonialism, unless youd rather dodge the question?

[Column No.4]

From their fucking recruitment website:
Today, the legionnaires are engaged in Afghanistan, Kosovo, Chad, the Ivory Coast and anywhere else they might be needed by France.

http://www.legion-recrute.com/en/

If you want to include Iraq and Afghanistan as colonialism then that makes a large part of the world colonialist. Kosovo, peacekeeping after the ethnic cleansing, im still researching on the Chad issue, and i already told you they were asking to intervene in the killing in Cote D'ivoire. I didnt even mention saving countless people in Zaire. Im not painting the Legion as the hand of god reaching down to protect those that cant protect themselves but i also know its not the same Legion that accepted SS into its ranks either.

[Commissar Rykov]

Well lets tally it up, they were asked to Cote D'ivoire to put down the violence that was terrorizing the general population and they were asked to stay in Djibouti to help keep that countries terrorism down. Do give some examples of their current day colonialism, unless youd rather dodge the question?
That is Colonialism. If you really think those nations peoples want them there? Fuck no their bourgeois backed governments do. See this is just further proof that you support the Bourgeois concept of States and the support of the bourgeois as you take everything they say as face value. The reason the Bourgeoisie ever intervene anywhere is for one simple thing Capital. When Capital is threatened you will be damn sure they will kick in the doors and kill anyone who won't cooperate this is how they have done it since they achieved power.

Your lack of analysis, compassion and solidarity towards the Working Class is showing at this point. The French are only intervening there because interests of capital are threatened whether it be workers they are exploiting, natural resources or a mix of both. If you think the French or any other power that intervenes on the behalf of bourgeois governments the world over is doing it for the Workers you are out of your skull.

[Column No.4]

That is Colonialism. If you really think those nations peoples want them there? Fuck no their bourgeois backed governments do. See this is just further proof that you support the Bourgeois concept of States and the support of the bourgeois as you take everything they say as face value. The reason the Bourgeoisie ever intervene anywhere is for one simple thing Capital. When Capital is threatened you will be damn sure they will kick in the doors and kill anyone who won't cooperate this is how they have done it since they achieved power.

Your lack of analysis, compassion and solidarity towards the Working Class is showing at this point. The French are only intervening there because interests of capital are threatened whether it be workers they are exploiting, natural resources or a mix of both. If you think the French or any other power that intervenes on the behalf of bourgeois governments the world over is doing it for the Workers you are out of your skull.

Youre right, those evil, capitalist scum should just let the nutters slaughter the general population.

[Commissar Rykov]

Youre right, those evil, capitalist scum should just let the nutters slaughter the general population.
Thank you for proving my point. You are obviously politically immature as your analysis is shit, your theory is shit and your support of reactionaries is shit. That all you can throw around is some smartass quips while demanding people explain why everything you say is reactionary is beyond me. So either you are quite young and obviously need to do some more research or you are just a batshit insane reactionary who is completely unaware of your own stream of thought.

[Column No.4]

Thank you for proving my point. You are obviously politically immature as your analysis is shit, your theory is shit and your support of reactionaries is shit. That all you can throw around is some smartass quips while demanding people explain why everything you say is reactionary is beyond me. So either you are quite young and obviously need to do some more research or you are just a batshit insane reactionary who is completely unaware of your own stream of thought.

So let me get this straight, youre anti-government, anti-military, pro-worker but anti-work and pro-terrorist, which is proven by several of your last posts disagreeing with the putting down of death squads and random nutters bent on blowing things up, not to mention being anti-action, because we should bring about change through education and dissent. So youre clearly someone that wants all of the fame and notoriety with none of the risk or sacrifice.

[eric922]

So let me get this straight, youre anti-government, anti-military, pro-worker but anti-work and pro-terrorist, which is proven by several of your last posts disagreeing with the putting down of death squads and random nutters bent on blowing things up, not to mention being anti-action, because we should bring about change through education and dissent. So youre clearly someone that wants all of the fame and notoriety with none of the risk or sacrifice.

I'm going to try and answer this from a leftist perspective. We are anti-government, because the current governments serve the capitalist class and are enemies of the workers. We are anti-military for the same reasons, the military is an arm of the bourgeois state and thus opposes the interests of the working class.

We are in no way anti-worker, socialism is the only ideology that always fights for the working class.

No one here is pro-terrorist, in fact socialism has always opposed terrorism,Leon Trotsky wrote an essay opposing the use of terrorism.

Your statements calling us anti-action shows how little you know about leftism. While it is true the left has led violent revolutions in the past, that is not the primarily weapon of the working class. The greatest weapon they have is the ability to withhold their labor. If we can train the working class to properly use this weapon then we will have given them a far more powerful weapon than any gun. Perhaps you should read more about leftism if you think that education and dissent isn't enough. Those are the keys to the working class's eventual victory. Victory will come through mass action, protests, strikes, and yes perhaps some violence, but that will be the smallest part.

[Column No.4]

I'm going to try and answer this from a leftist perspective. We are anti-government, because the current governments serve the capitalist class and are enemies of the workers. We are anti-military for the same reasons, the military is an arm of the bourgeois state and thus opposes the interests of the working class.

We are in no way anti-worker, socialism is the only ideology that always fights for the working class.

No one here is pro-terrorist, in fact socialism has always opposed terrorism,Leon Trotsky wrote an essay opposing the use of terrorism.

Your statements calling us anti-action shows how little you know about leftism. While it is true the left has led violent revolutions in the past, that is not the primarily weapon of the working class. The greatest weapon they have is the ability to withhold their labor. If we can train the working class to properly use this weapon then we will have given them a far more powerful weapon than any gun. Perhaps you should read more about leftism if you think that education and dissent isn't enough. Those are the keys to the working class's eventual victory. Victory will come through mass action, protests, strikes, and yes perhaps some violence, but that will be the smallest part.

I agree with your first statement and I said you were pro-worker, not anti-worker. The statement about being pro-terrorist was referring solely to Rykov. As far as the anti-action statement, witholding ones labor is a nice theory but it doesnt work because people have to eat and provide for their families and therefore will almost always cave, and in the end they typically do.

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

you want to join france's overseas semi-paramilitary wing "cos you love a good fight and the left is getting nowhere"

jesus christ, no wonder we're getting nowhere with tools like you, you have no politics, you're just some moron who likes guns

jeez bit of an overreaction

first off getting high and mighty about people joining the army, "oh no"

second off i think its quite a good sentiment, and shows like, courage and shit? not to be mocked cause he has "no politics" cause he wants a career in the army and likes it while good guys like you work in retail and make their own lives a misery out of a duty the proletirat or something?

that said do you wanna join the french foreign legion? seriosuly? Unless you have a major criminal record surely it'd be better to A; join the us army b: box so at least that way it isnt totally nuts/brutal.

[eric922]

jeez bit of an overreaction

first off getting high and mighty about people joining the army, "oh no"

second off i think its quite a good sentiment, and shows like, courage and shit? not to be mocked cause he has "no politics" cause he wants a career in the army and likes it while good guys like you work in retail and make their own lives a misery out of a duty the proletirat or something?

that said do you wanna join the french foreign legion? seriosuly? Unless you have a major criminal record surely it'd be better to A; join the us army b: box so at least that way it isnt totally nuts/brutal.
How is it an overreaction? The U.S. army and the FFL are both agents of imperialism and capitalism. They are not allies of the working class. No, he shouldn't have to live a life of misery, but he should not pick a career that serves the capitalist state.

[Commissar Rykov]

So let me get this straight, youre anti-government, anti-military, pro-worker but anti-work and pro-terrorist, which is proven by several of your last posts disagreeing with the putting down of death squads and random nutters bent on blowing things up, not to mention being anti-action, because we should bring about change through education and dissent. So youre clearly someone that wants all of the fame and notoriety with none of the risk or sacrifice.
Is that you Dick Cheney?

[Column No.4]

jeez bit of an overreaction

first off getting high and mighty about people joining the army, "oh no"

second off i think its quite a good sentiment, and shows like, courage and shit? not to be mocked cause he has "no politics" cause he wants a career in the army and likes it while good guys like you work in retail and make their own lives a misery out of a duty the proletirat or something?

that said do you wanna join the french foreign legion? seriosuly? Unless you have a major criminal record surely it'd be better to A; join the us army b: box so at least that way it isnt totally nuts/brutal.

I was in the US military and unfortunately the arrogant and ignorant training techniques caused a couple of pretty detrimental leg injuries, that of which im in the process of getting sorted out through the VA. What i see in the Legion is the camaraderie that i thought the US military had but turned out not to. Now dont get me wrong, id fight for the leftist beliefs in a heartbeat but im sick of being the only one holding the line at protests.

[Column No.4]

Is that you Dick Cheney?

And you dare to lecture me about smartass quips?

[Commissar Rykov]

And you dare to lecture me about smartass quips?
I'm not the fuckface reactionary talking about how noble it is killing fellow Proletarians while wearing the jackboots of the Bourgeoisie. So kindly go fuck yourself. Seriously why are you even here? You aren't a Revolutionary Leftist likely a liberal of some sort since you admit to being part of Reactionary Groups while slaughtering your fellow Proles and your constant support of the Bourgeoisie as noble Peacekeepers.

[eric922]

I'm not the fuckface reactionary talking about how noble it is killing fellow Proletarians while wearing the jackboots of the Bourgeoisie. So kindly go fuck yourself. Seriously why are you even here? You aren't a Revolutionary Leftist likely a liberal of some sort since you admit to being part of Reactionary Groups while slaughtering your fellow Proles and your constant support of the Bourgeoisie as noble Peacekeepers.
I think liberal is too left for him, even. He almost sounds conservative.

[Column No.4]

I'm not the fuckface reactionary talking about how noble it is killing fellow Proletarians while wearing the jackboots of the Bourgeoisie. So kindly go fuck yourself. Seriously why are you even here? You aren't a Revolutionary Leftist likely a liberal of some sort since you admit to being part of Reactionary Groups while slaughtering your fellow Proles and your constant support of the Bourgeoisie as noble Peacekeepers.

Thats it, resort to personal attacks and other insults of the like, very good.

[Commissar Rykov]

I think liberal is too left for him, even. He almost sounds conservative.
Indeed, it is rather disgusting. I will admit I am not "noble" enough to don armor and weapons to slay my fellow man especially my Proletarian Comrades in other countries. Call me a coward if you like but I see little reason to be a bourgeoisie pawn let alone a proud one. This kind of disgusting knee-jerk quasi-fascist bullshit does stink of the Conservative part of the United States but I have seen it in Liberal circles as well. Regardless he is definitely not a Revolutionary at least not one even remotely familiar with any kind of theory I have come across.

[eric922]

Thats it, resort to personal attacks and other insults of the like, very good.
Aside from fuckface and telling you to go fuck yourself nothing in there was an insult. You are aren't a revolutionary leftist, hell you don't even seem like a reformist leftist, you seem very reactionary and some of your views even seem semi-Fascist.

[Column No.4]

Aside from fuckface and telling you to go fuck yourself nothing in there was an insult. You are aren't a revolutionary leftist, hell you don't even seem like a reformist leftist, you seem very reactionary and some of your views even seem semi-Fascist.

Aside from the insults nothing in there was an insult?

[PhoenixAsh]

Well lets tally it up, they were asked to Cote D'ivoire to put down the violence that was terrorizing the general population and they were asked to stay in Djibouti to help keep that countries terrorism down. Do give some examples of their current day colonialism, unless youd rather dodge the question?

You mean there is a civil war going on because the current government which has very, very friendly ties with France refused to acknowledge the internationally established election results and denied to winner of these elections access to political power and shut down the country and declared the winning party illegal? You mean that the FF legion is assisting THAT government?

O snap.

Or did you mean the Legions involvement in the first civil war which was held after a 30 year term of office came to an end and which centered around refusing giving minorities voting rights? Where the Legion bravely defended the very government which wanted to refuse minorities voting rights...because the French wanted to ensure continued friendly relations and agreeable trade and industrial contracts???

O snap



If you want to include Iraq and Afghanistan as colonialism then that makes a large part of the world colonialist. Kosovo, peacekeeping after the ethnic cleansing, im still researching on the Chad issue, and i already told you they were asking to intervene in the killing in Cote D'ivoire. I didnt even mention saving countless people in Zaire. Im not painting the Legion as the hand of god reaching down to protect those that cant protect themselves but i also know its not the same Legion that accepted SS into its ranks either.

No the Legion certainly is NOTHING in the order or protecting those who can't protect themselves. The Legion is a force which is used to keep French friendly governments who should byu alrights and purposes be ousted and who more often than not started wars and ethnic cleansing and violence themselves in office.

The Legion is the embodyment of imperialism and anti-democratic principles.

And YES Kosovo peacekeeping is also part of imperialism as the EU/NATO only became involved in the conflict to break the back of an anti-EU and NATO government (Serbs) which had great influence in the region and opposed expansion of the EU and NATO in that area.


I do not understand how there can even be a debate about this issue...and the best and most begning reason I can think up is because you have no fucking clue what imperialism or colonialism is.

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

How is it an overreaction? The U.S. army and the FFL are both agents of imperialism and capitalism. They are not allies of the working class. No, he shouldn't have to live a life of misery, but he should not pick a career that serves the capitalist state.

All I can say is that you seem to take this shit far to seriously dude.

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

I'm not the fuckface reactionary talking about how noble it is killing fellow Proletarians while wearing the jackboots of the Bourgeoisie. So kindly go fuck yourself. Seriously why are you even here? You aren't a Revolutionary Leftist likely a liberal of some sort since you admit to being part of Reactionary Groups while slaughtering your fellow Proles and your constant support of the Bourgeoisie as noble Peacekeepers.

I think personally the op "liking a fight" is insane but please stop this. No offence but your attitude is ridiculas. I think you need to learn to seperate life in a capitalist society and the revolution, cause while we al want the proles to win, in my day to day life in no way do I feel I owe some kinda loyalty to a group of people just because they're poor.

[eric922]

All I can say is that you seem to take this shit far to seriously dude.
If you don't see anything wrong with joining the FFL then you don't take this seriously enough, I mean these are people's lives we are talking about here.

[Commissar Rykov]

I think personally the op "liking a fight" is insane but please stop this. No offence but your attitude is ridiculas. I think you need to learn to seperate life in a capitalist society and the revolution, cause while we al want the proles to win, in my day to day life in no way do I feel I owe some kinda loyalty to a group of people just because they're poor.
Probably because you are some Petit-bourgeois asshole. Unlike you I can't walk away from my Class because I am of my Class. You are the worst kind of scum.

[onix]

i saw the discussion meandering a bit lately, but the topic is perhaps interesting.

joining the ffl when you can already wonder if that would be counterrevolutionary is just that. becoming a witfull, compliant and industrious slave of inhumane reactionairy authority.

pragmatically there is a point, but i would leave that to destute refugee's , involuntary criminals and traumatised youth and hope it works out all riot.

it is ethically relevant that the mentality usually requested in the context of military discipline and operatives is morbid, masculinocentric and discriminatory.

no fun and no usefull psychological investment in your own persona. doubtfull for your future workings as a social being.

[Column No.4]

Well you guys are free to live without a pot to piss in, waiting for the revolution that in all likliness is never coming. I will try to eke out an existence in which im not living on the streets surviving off of road kill.

[Per Levy]

Well you guys are free to live without a pot to piss in, waiting for the revolution that in all likliness is never coming. I will try to eke out an existence in which im not living on the streets surviving off of road kill.

so this is how you excuse joining the ffl? no one here wants to be poor, many are but nobody wants to be it. still there are a lot of better things to do then joining a tool of opression, thats only purpose it is to advance the interests of france and the way the ffl is doing it means shooting a huge amount of human beings. if thats is your kind of job you like to do well do so but dont come up with such a silly excuse and dont expect any sympathy. there are ways of making a living, many of these ways are not nice, true, but at least you wont be a tool of opression and murder.

[Column No.4]

so this is how you excuse joining the ffl? no one here wants to be poor, many are but nobody wants to be it. still there are a lot of better things to do then joining a tool of opression, thats only purpose it is to advance the interests of france and the way the ffl is doing it means shooting a huge amount of human beings. if thats is your kind of job you like to do well do so but dont come up with such a silly excuse and dont expect any sympathy. there are ways of making a living, many of these ways are not nice, true, but at least you wont be a tool of opression and murder.

A. There was no "excuse", only a reason.

B. As i said before, im not in it for their politics, as few, if any, Legionnaires are.

C. I never asked for anyone sympathy, never have, never will.

D. What would some of those other ways of making a living be, the coal mines, dealing drugs, prostitution?

[Geiseric]

Join the coast guard or something... fuck. I don't get why you would join the FFL unless you had no other choice. Or if you were psychotic. But all semantics about motivation and commaraderie aside they are a tool of class oppression. every government job technically is, but these people are on par with or exceed black water's record for brutality.

[Geiseric]

They're more like riot police with assault rifles than an actual army.

[Column No.4]

Join the coast guard or something... fuck. I don't get why you would join the FFL unless you had no other choice. Or if you were psychotic. But all semantics about motivation and commaraderie aside they are a tool of class oppression. every government job technically is, but these people are on par with or exceed black water's record for brutality.

Getting into the Coast Guard is the equivalent of getting into the most exclusive country club in the world, its requirements for enlistment are atrocious. To be honest im at the point of having no other choice, what i do now isnt coming even close to paying the bills. I also detest the comparison of the current Legion to Blackwater, the Legion of the past perphaps.

[RED DAVE]

I was in the US military and unfortunately the arrogant and ignorant training techniques caused a couple of pretty detrimental leg injuries, that of which im in the process of getting sorted out through the VA. What i see in the Legion is the camaraderie that i thought the US military had but turned out not to. Now dont get me wrong, id fight for the leftist beliefs in a heartbeat but im sick of being the only one holding the line at protests.Sorry for your injuries, but you're a fucking clown. The camaraderie of the military is the camaraderie of mass murder to serve imperialism.

If you want camaraderie, become a real socialist, not a shit-head.

RED DAVE

[thesadmafioso]

Getting into the Coast Guard is the equivalent of getting into the most exclusive country club in the world, its requirements for enlistment are atrocious. To be honest im at the point of having no other choice, what i do now isnt coming even close to paying the bills. I also detest the comparison of the current Legion to Blackwater, the Legion of the past perphaps.

So, when the FFL fight in the name of imperialism, do they use water guns filled with delicious juice? Perhaps they impose the military interests of France through the barrel of a fluffy pillow or two?

Seriously though, do you honestly think that killing for the FFL is much better than killing for Blackwater? That is quite the delusion you are harboring if such is the case, and I imagine you are going to have to find that out through what will likely amount to an absolutely brutal experience if you truly plan on going through with this.

[Column No.4]

Sorry for your injuries, but you're a fucking clown. The camaraderie of the military is the camaraderie of mass murder to serve imperialism.

If you want camaraderie, become a real socialist, not a shit-head.

RED DAVE

Maybe you need to spend some time in the military, they dont give two shiny shites about the politics of it, theyre in it for the money and the benefits because theres no work anywhere else.

[Column No.4]

So, when the FFL fight in the name of imperialism, do they use water guns filled with delicious juice? Perhaps they impose the military interests of France through the barrel of a fluffy pillow or two?

Seriously though, do you honestly think that killing for the FFL is much better than killing for Blackwater? That is quite the delusion you are harboring if such is the case, and I imagine you are going to have to find that out through what will likely amount to an absolutely brutal experience if you truly plan on going through with this.

As i said before, im entertaining it. It will depend on how my current job holds up, you know, the one that pays me next to nothing, and how the VA handles my claim. Like ive said before, the military is the go to job when there are no other jobs, its the welfare in a capitalist country.

[Commissar Rykov]

Maybe you need to spend some time in the military, they dont give two shiny shites about the politics of it, theyre in it for the money and the benefits because theres no work anywhere else.
Spend time killing my fellow Proles? Fuck that noise.

[Column No.4]

Spend time killing my fellow Proles? Fuck that noise.

Yes, because every job in the military pertains to killing.

[Commissar Rykov]

Yes, because every job in the military pertains to killing.
It does just because you are not directly involved doesn't make you any less culpable. Without the people in various other MOSes they couldn't operate their killing machine. You keep trying to make it sound good in your head though as it is fucking hilarious how you are trying to disconnect yourself from reality.

[Column No.4]

It does just because you are not directly involved doesn't make you any less culpable. Without the people in various other MOSes they couldn't operate their killing machine. You keep trying to make it sound good in your head though as it is fucking hilarious how you are trying to disconnect yourself from reality.

So the Corpsmen that treat both military as well as civilians, the medivac pilots and crews, the mercy ships? Im not disconnecting myself from reality, i know who, what and how each MOS, rate, etc. contributes to the killing machine.

[Commissar Rykov]

So the Corpsmen that treat both military as well as civilians, the medivac pilots and crews, the mercy ships?
Yep as their whole point is to keep the soldiers alive so they can go back to killing. Amazing I know.

[Column No.4]

Yep as their whole point is to keep the soldiers alive so they can go back to killing. Amazing I know.

Wow, your really grasping as straws, huh? So im guessing the cooks are at as much fault as the infantry because theyre feeding the troops?

[Commissar Rykov]

Wow, your really grasping as straws, huh? So im guessing the cooks are at as much fault as the infantry because theyre feeding the troops?
Do you not understand logistics or are you trying to do some mental gymnastics in order not to admit you are wrong? I imagine the latter but maybe you are just some kid who played the 360 too much and thinks the Military is über-1337.

[S.Artesian]

I was in the US military and unfortunately the arrogant and ignorant training techniques caused a couple of pretty detrimental leg injuries, that of which im in the process of getting sorted out through the VA. What i see in the Legion is the camaraderie that i thought the US military had but turned out not to. Now dont get me wrong, id fight for the leftist beliefs in a heartbeat but im sick of being the only one holding the line at protests.

The Mafia had camaraderie. Bloods and Crips have camaraderie. The New York Yankess have camaraderie. Big deal.

You think the Legion is any different from any other organization of sociopaths serving the bourgeoisie? That's just the bullshit they want you to believe so you won't think about what they need you to do.

No, I'm not getting you wrong... you want your buddies, and your 3 squares, and your uniform, and you don't really care if you have to kill poor people to get those.

Tell you what, I don't know if you should "feel bad" if you join, but I'm absolutely certain no one here is going to feel bad if one of the poor people busts a caps in your ass and sends you back to your French paymasters in a body bag.

[Column No.4]

The Mafia had camaraderie. Bloods and Crips have camaraderie. The New York Yankess have camaraderie. Big deal.

You think the Legion is any different from any other organization of sociopaths serving the bourgeoisie? That's just the bullshit they want you to believe so you won't think about what they need you to do.

No, I'm not getting you wrong... you want your buddies, and your 3 squares, and your uniform, and you don't really care if you have to kill poor people to get those.

Tell you what, I don't know if you should "feel bad" if you join, but I'm absolutely certain no one here is going to feel bad if one of the poor people busts a caps in your ass and sends you back to your French paymasters in a body bag.

Better to get it in combat than strolling down the street by some banger.

[Geiseric]

Ok you need to start thinking things out materialistically, every imperialist "war" is for exploitation and destroying the invaded country's independence from foreign powers. Every million in aid has to be paid back with 2 million from intrest. Stop being such a romantic, there's nothing good about joining the ffl. becoming a cop is less reactionary. i understand there are no jobs, i'm going to be in the same position as you in a couple years, but please, for the good of your sanity, don't join some band of murderers that enforces everything bad and evil in the world. Can't you try community college?

[Column No.4]

Ok you need to start thinking things out materialistically, every imperialist "war" is for exploitation and destroying the invaded country's independence from foreign powers. Every million in aid has to be paid back with 2 million from intrest. Stop being such a romantic, there's nothing good about joining the ffl. becoming a cop is less reactionary. i understand there are no jobs, i'm going to be in the same position as you in a couple years, but please, for the good of your sanity, don't join some band of murderers that enforces everything bad and evil in the world. Can't you try community college?

I know what imperialism is. Im far from romaticizing the Legion, its an option because i cant reenlist in the US military, not that id want to, and if i could become a cop i would. Like i said i entertained the thought, im also looking at going back to school however i also have to weigh my odds at getting a job after the training, as im competing with Md and DC as well as Va.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

far from romaticizing the Legion, its an option because i cant reenlist in the US military, not that id want to, and if i could become a cop i would.

Could you possibly be more reprehensible? You seem to lack principles entirely and only care about some hard-core macho violence. Perfect cop material, then.

[Column No.4]

Could you possibly be more reprehensible? You seem to lack principles entirely and only care about some hard-core macho violence. Perfect cop material, then.

Wow, you sound like a wannbe gangster teenager that thinks all cops are bad. I know the majority of cops are on the bad side but there are some good ones out there.

[bcbm]

this joke is still going?

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Wow, you sound like a wannbe gangster teenager that thinks all cops are bad. I know the majority of cops are on the bad side but there are some good ones out there.

I'm neither a gangster or a teenager, but this isn't about cops individually.

Just like the issue with the Foreign Legion isn't that individual soldiers or military men are on "the bad side", it is that they are fundamentally reactionary institutions; the armed wing of capital. Their primary function is to protect and serve capital and imperialist capitalism. There is no doubt that not every single police ever is individually a bad person, but the institution which they uphold and form a part of is. Do you fail to understand this?

[S.Artesian]

this joke is still going?

This is a joke? The joke is that this clown can post more than once and not get shit-canned. You're a moderator. Ban this fucking creep.

[Column No.4]

I'm neither a gangster or a teenager, but this isn't about cops individually.

Just like the issue with the Foreign Legion isn't that individual soldiers or military men are on "the bad side", it is that they are fundamentally reactionary institutions; the armed wing of capital. Their primary function is to protect and serve capital and imperialist capitalism. There is no doubt that not every single police ever is individually a bad person, but the institution which they uphold and form a part of is. Do you fail to understand this?

I understand what youre getting at however when it comes to the individual cop, if theyre good, how does that uphold the institution which typically shows no leniency or forgiveness? The negative impact of the institution is cut short of the perpetrator by the cops leniency or forgiveness.

[Column No.4]

This is a joke? The joke is that this clown can post more than once and not get shit-canned. You're a moderator. Ban this fucking creep.

The nail that sticks out gets hammered down, huh?

[S.Artesian]

The nail that sticks out gets hammered down, huh?


No, the reactionary creep who wants to do imperialism's bidding gets kicked the fuck out of here; the clown pleading poverty as an excuse to kill poor people, when he really just wants to be part of an organization that will provide him with the overwhelming firepower to act out his pathology, gets identified as a class enemy and bounced.

[Geiseric]

I don't think it's that simple. However the entire "justice" system is the definition of reactionary, and sending anybody, be they a serial killer or a guy who stole an i pod to prison or jail, where they literally waste away and become empty shells of human beings, is an increadibly morally reprehensable action. The living standards has increased since the dark ages but the goal remains the same.

[bcbm]

This is a joke? The joke is that this clown can post more than once and not get shit-canned. You're a moderator. Ban this fucking creep.

i'm only a moderator of the religion forum.

[No_Leaders]

Oh boy so i had one too many to drink and stumble upon this lovely piece. So let's see, wingnut wacko who wants to kill people because it's "cool" to shoot guns. Oh wait i mean you're doing this so you have a pot to piss in. Hmm okay.. So how are you a revolutionary leftist again?

I can understand the whole needing a job and decent wage to survive. I know.. I'm in debt with a couple different things, i make 11.00 an hour with over half of my paychecks going to bills, debt, rent, groceries. It's enough to live, not comfortably but i get by. All the while paying off for my classes i enrolled in in the community college. It's rough, i'm almost 25 and going to college for the first time finally. Did i ever consider joining the army, police? (all mercenaries of the state) Nope. I wouldn't want to go to some battlefield because some rich bourgeoisie fuck told me to go to a foreign battlefield and kill! Nor would i join the most corrupt gang in the country, the police force. Their goal and aim is to protect the interests of the state, the cops are a war machine protecting the wealth of the employing class.

Seriously why the fuck are we letting some statist reactionary fuck post on here? Go join all the brainwashed nationalists on scumfront for all i care. You're a closet fascist, and very bad at pretending you're not one. Wanna talk about "peacekeeping" like that word means anything? You wanna fight some "good" moral war? There are no good moral wars.. Wars are never waged for humanitarian reasons, those reasons are simply what is fed to the public to gain national support.

You wanna go slaughter innocent people? Have fun you nationalist scum, war's are never for moral good reasons. You might think there's glory in this but there's no glory in being used to defend domination and imperialism. You'll realize you're just being used and getting burned. Ultimately it's your life your choice. You wanna join? by all means do it don't post here wondering why we all think you're a reactionary piece of shit. Enjoy storming battlefields in your jackboots while crushing the poorest and most oppressed peoples in third world nations to reinforce french dominance and capitalist interests. Someone ban this asshat please. We know who our friends and allies are, and you're obviously the type they'd deploy against dissent and you'd walk heel and foot to crush dissent. It's okay tell yourself you're "protecting the peace" maybe that will make you sleep better at night fuckface. What a revolutionary you are! Good riddance, fascist scum.:lol:

[Dulce et Decorum est]

This is why we wont win; too many pussies who cry whenever they see the shadow of a man wearing a uniform and holding a rifle. How on Earth do you plan to accomplish anything if you don't have anybody with military training fighting alongside you?

I'm joining the Australian Army; I'm going to apply to the Australian Defence Force Academy next year and become an Officer. That way, if shit hits the fan I'll know how to handle myself and how to help others instead of sitting in mummies basement posting rubbish on Revleft.

It's times like these when I really think that there is no chance for any sort of Socialist or Communist reform in our society.

[No_Leaders]

This is why we wont win; too many pussies who cry whenever they see the shadow of a man wearing a uniform and holding a rifle. How on Earth do you plan to accomplish anything if you don't have anybody with military training fighting alongside you?

I'm joining the Australian Army; I'm going to apply to the Australian Defence Force Academy next year and become an Officer. That way, if shit hits the fan I'll know how to handle myself and how to help others instead of sitting in mummies basement posting rubbish on Revleft.

It's times like these when I really think that there is no chance for any sort of Socialist or Communist reform in our society.

Oh great! Another one! There would be a people's militia you asshat. You don't need to join an imperialist military to learn how to fight and defend yourself. You think the bolsheviks in the russian revolution were all military? You think the anarchists, and marxists in the spanish civil war were all military trained? Nope, they stormed the barracks equipped themselves with arms and fought against franco's fascists on the front lines. Go read about the Durruti Column or the Iron Column.

I swear the ignorance from so called "revolutionaries" is astounding. Get outta here you troll.

[Dulce et Decorum est]

Oh great! Another one! There would be a people's militia you asshat. You don't need to join an imperialist military to learn how to fight and defend yourself. You think the bolsheviks in the russian revolution were all military? You think the anarchists, and marxists in the spanish civil war were all military trained? Nope, they stormed the barracks equipped themselves with arms and fought against franco's fascists on the front lines. Go read about the Durruti Column or the Iron Column.

I swear the ignorance from so called "revolutionaries" is astounding. Get outta here you troll.

It isn't as simple as finding a weapon and using it. You need to learn how to operate a weapon, how to field strip it and clean it properly, how to adjust the weapon sights & how to make sure you don't get dirt and gunk in the barrel & receiver. If I gave you a Steyr right now and told you to shoot at a target with it, you wouldn't know what to do.

Then there is the survival & leadership aspects too, with surviving in the field coming first and foremost but there are other things that are worth remembering too but which I wont mention.

Your examples of the Bolsheviks & the Spanish revolutionaries (Who, should I say, lost the Civil War) are old and dated examples. An assault rifle is a lot less simple to use than a bolt action rifle. As I mentioned before, if I gave you a Steyr (or any gun for that matter, I would imagine) you wouldn't have the slightest inkling of what to do. It's a lot more than pulling the bolt back and then squeezing the trigger, you know.

It seems that you are the ignorant one; using the training and knowledge given to you for free by imperialists & capitalists to fight against them seems like a good idea to me. I don't see much sense in running at enemy machine guns with brooms and paddles.

[No_Leaders]

You assume because people aren't actively joining oppressive arms of the state that they won't know how to use a weapon. I'm sure many folks here own firearms and know how to properly clean and maintain them, myself included. There's lots of things people can learn about using firearms and surviving in the field without going to the extent of joining a military force. That seems silly to join so you can come back with all this "knowledge" and lead us, the "poor idiotic" proletarian to victory against the bourgeoisie and their paid thugs and mercenaries aka the police and military machine. Go on teach us how to become better revolutionaries when you come back from the service.:cool:
FYI I have quite a few different guns and i know how to properly clean and use them. I didn't join the army to figure that all out either brotha!

[Dulce et Decorum est]

Sure, maybe in countries such as the United States & Switzerland the people would know how to manage a modern firearm. But in Australia? Not a chance, most people would have difficulty in identifying what rounds can be used safely with their firearm.

Unless people can randomly gain military knowledge without joining the military or having any experience with firearms, then I think being in the military is a good idea, especially as an officer. You can cry about doing the dirty work of imperialists all you want but the average worker is already doing the dirty work for the bourgeoisie & capitalists so you might as well get something out of it that will help you in the event of a revolution instead of blindly aiding them.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

This is why we wont win; too many pussies who cry whenever they see the shadow of a man wearing a uniform and holding a rifle. How on Earth do you plan to accomplish anything if you don't have anybody with military training fighting alongside you?

I'm joining the Australian Army; I'm going to apply to the Australian Defence Force Academy next year and become an Officer. That way, if shit hits the fan I'll know how to handle myself and how to help others instead of sitting in mummies basement posting rubbish on Revleft.

It's times like these when I really think that there is no chance for any sort of Socialist or Communist reform in our society.

"Pussies," sexist language, nice. Becoming an officer is even worse than a low level grunt. It is a position far more responsible for the atrocities ordered than just being a grunt doing what one is told. What sort of cognitive difficulties do you people have?

[Dulce et Decorum est]

If said Officer commits an atrocity. What is with the left these days? It's looking more like Woodstock every day.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

If said Officer commits an atrocity. What is with the left these days? It's looking more like Woodstock every day.

Most military actions taken by imperialist armies are atrocities. Clever way to insinuate being opposed to imperialist armies is tantamount to liberalism, though, verily.

[Dulce et Decorum est]

There's a difference between an army committing atrocities and an officer committing atrocities. Field Marshall Erwin Rommel was a part of the Wehrmacht during WWII yet he is well known to have been a very humane man who ignored orders to kill captured jews & civilians.

[Commissar Rykov]

There's a difference between an army committing atrocities and an officer committing atrocities. Field Marshall Erwin Rommel was a part of the Wehrmacht during WWII yet he is well known to have been a very humane man who ignored orders to kill captured jews & civilians.
Ah yes the wonderful Rommel who served Hitler as both Field Marshall and Propaganda Device! Brave man.:rolleyes:

[Dulce et Decorum est]

You're completely missing the point. I'm not praising Rommel; I respect him as an excellent soldier & merciful man. The latter quality was not found in many German Officers at the time, unfortunately.

Be open minded about this, honestly.

[Commissar Rykov]

You're completely missing the point. I'm not praising Rommel; I respect him as an excellent soldier & merciful man. The latter quality was not found in many German Officers at the time, unfortunately.

Be open minded about this, honestly.
Being part of a Imperialist Army that invaded Poland, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, and the USSR? What respect does he deserve? That he was part of an institution that helped subjugate Austria and Czechoslovakia? Where does the respect factor in? God he killed a lot of Proletarians! He should be praised in his slaughter in service of the Third Reich! Hero to Mankind or some shit I am sure!

[Dulce et Decorum est]

...The same respect that people like Napoleon, Caesar, Atilla the Hun and other great military leaders throughout history deserve. I respect Rommel because he was a very good leader that was feared by the allies and well respected by his men. Besides, it is well known that Rommel was not too happy with the Nazi Government hence why they made him commit suicide so I guess that gets some of my respect too.

And you are missing the point. He didn't kill a lot of proletarians. He refused to kill any innocent civilians or Prisoners of War (Hence the merciful part). He didn't commit any atrocities.

I hate Fascism just as much as the next man, but that doesn't blind me of seeing things as they are.

[S.Artesian]

This is why we wont win; too many pussies who cry whenever they see the shadow of a man wearing a uniform and holding a rifle. How on Earth do you plan to accomplish anything if you don't have anybody with military training fighting alongside you?

I'm joining the Australian Army; I'm going to apply to the Australian Defence Force Academy next year and become an Officer. That way, if shit hits the fan I'll know how to handle myself and how to help others instead of sitting in mummies basement posting rubbish on Revleft.

It's times like these when I really think that there is no chance for any sort of Socialist or Communist reform in our society.


All I can say is: 1) I have no problem with universal conscription in bourgeois society. It's the best way of introducing class struggle into the military 2) once that struggle is introduced into the Australian Army and the grunts turn their rifles around and point them at you, instead of the Indonesians, the migrants seeking asylum, I hope you won't turn into a whimpering little boy, shit yourself, and start crying when you see those men in uniform holding those rifles. But I'm betting you will.

I know I sure won't be crying for you.

[Tim Cornelis]

This is why we wont win; too many pussies who cry whenever they see the shadow of a man wearing a uniform and holding a rifle. How on Earth do you plan to accomplish anything if you don't have anybody with military training fighting alongside you?

I'm joining the Australian Army; I'm going to apply to the Australian Defence Force Academy next year and become an Officer. That way, if shit hits the fan I'll know how to handle myself and how to help others instead of sitting in mummies basement posting rubbish on Revleft.

It's times like these when I really think that there is no chance for any sort of Socialist or Communist reform in our society.

No actually, you will not "know how to handle [yourself] and how to help others instead of sitting in mummies basement posting rubbish on Revleft", instead you will be in prison for high treason you dumb fuck. In the meantime you will solemnly swear to protect the capitalist state and act upon it. By that same logic one could've joint the Waffen SS arguing "oh, I need a pay" or "oh, at least now I know how to fight the waffen SS". You want to learn how to fight the enemy by joining them?! How do these people not forget to breath?

[Dulce et Decorum est]

Congratulations on completely missing the point. No wonder Communism has lost its respect when every Communist seems to believe that a armed mob with little to no military training can beat a modern Western military.

[Tim Cornelis]

Congratulations on completely missing the point. No wonder Communism has lost its respect when every Communist seems to believe that a armed mob with little to no military training can beat a modern Western military.

Congratulations on creating a strawman. I don't think there is anyone who is arguing that a revolutionary leftist movement should not have the capacity of operating arms (please cite anyone who said so in this thread).

Yes, we communists lost respect because we don't join capitalist/imperialist/coercive institutions, that's the reason.

Now I wonder, how do you see this defection of yours happening? You are working for the Australian army and a revolution breaks out, say, your commanding officers orders you to crush it by force, you refuse. Your commanding officer asks "why not?" you reply "I want to join them". Maybe you should ask the Syrian soldiers who did something similar how it worked out for them. Oh wait, you can't they were killed for high treason. The Australian government will not kill you over it, but you will certainly be imprisoned. Or do you think your commanding officer will allow you to just walk out and defect?! You are saying it is "us" who are not living in the real world but it's YOU.


High treason is criminal disloyalty to one's government. Participating in a war against one's native country, attempting to overthrow its government, spying on its military, its diplomats, or its secret services for a hostile and foreign power, or attempting to kill its head of state are perhaps the best known examples of high treason.

P.S. What military background did Che Guevara have? How many trained soldiers did the CNT have during the Spanish civil war? Is the EZLN made up of professional soldiers? Also, don't tell me you are joining the Army because you think it will further the revolutionary leftist cause! It probably has more to do with being a teen who plays Call of Duty.

[Dulce et Decorum est]

Well it would depend on the situation, I would imagine. If it were me, I would agree to do it but then I would turn coat once I get there. Obviously it would be more complicated than that.

It's all well and good if the people are armed and know how to operate said arms, but Officers are trained in leadership and advanced battle tactics that could considerably help a revolutionary force.

[S.Artesian]

Well it would depend on the situation, I would imagine. If it were me, I would agree to do it but then I would turn coat once I get there. Obviously it would be more complicated than that.

It's all well and good if the people are armed and know how to operate said arms, but Officers are trained in leadership and advanced battle tactics that could considerably help a revolutionary force.


Officers are the class enemy. That's the real world. Stop living in your infantile fantasy world where you think you can be an officer and simply "not do it" "once you get there."

As I said nothing wrong with your universal conscription, best way to introduce class struggle into the military. Everything wrong with being an officer-- that's the side we struggle against.

[Tim Cornelis]

Well it would depend on the situation, I would imagine. If it were me, I would agree to do it but then I would turn coat once I get there. Obviously it would be more complicated than that.

It's all well and good if the people are armed and know how to operate said arms, but Officers are trained in leadership and advanced battle tactics that could considerably help a revolutionary force.

And you assume you will go over there alone?

Defecting is possible, but incredibly difficult.

But since you failed to answer my questions, Che Guevara did not have any professional military background, nor did any of the other members of the "26th of July Movement". They trained themselves. Yet, the managed to overthrow a US supported dictator who had a vastly superior army. 82 men fought, 24 survived. And the 24 survivors went on to initiate a revolutionary war that overthrew an army of thousands. I'm not expecting to reproduce such results, but your claims are completely unfounded. The EZLN has, to my knowledge, zero professional soldiers.

Also, the revolution will likely be a fourth generation conflict (although not long term)


Fourth generation warfare (4GW) is conflict characterized by a blurring of the lines between war and politics, soldier and civilian.
Characteristics of 4gw:


Terrorism (tactic)
A non-national or transnational base—highly decentralized
A direct attack on the enemy's culture
Highly sophisticated psychological warfare, especially through media manipulation and lawfare
All available pressures are used - political, economic, social and military
Occurs in low intensity conflict, involving actors from all networks
Non-combatants are tactical dilemmas
Lack of hierarchy
Small in size, spread out network of communication and financial support
Use of Insurgency and Guerrilla tactics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_generation_warfare

[S.Artesian]

Fourth generation warfare (4GW) is conflict characterized by a blurring of the lines between war and politics, soldier and civilian.
Uhhh.... that pretty much describes all struggles since.... well since a pretty long time, at least since the Boer War, or the Cuban struggle for independence against Spain, or Diaz's war of extermination against the Yaqui Indians in Mexico... not to mention Napoleon's battle against the Haitian revolutionists [except for aspects of the "transnational base."

[Tim Cornelis]

Uhhh.... that pretty much describes all struggles since.... well since a pretty long time, at least since the Boer War, or the Cuban struggle for independence against Spain, or Diaz's war of extermination against the Yaqui Indians in Mexico... not to mention Napoleon's battle against the Haitian revolutionists [except for aspects of the "transnational base."

You forgot the list of aspects of fourth generation warfare.

Napoleonic wars were FIRST generation warfare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_generation_warfare#Examples

Boer War are an example of SECOND generation warfare: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_generation_warfare#Examples

Fourth Generation warfare started somewhere in the 1960s. Important aspects are the decentralised, low-intensity warfare. An intifada is an example of fourth generation warfare.