Dealing with pessimists, cynics, and misanthropes

[GPDP]

Arguing with reactionaries and smug elitist liberals can be frustrating, but IMO it's even worse with the kind of people in my thread title, mostly due to the fact that many of them are otherwise pretty progressive and would love to see a better world, but either don't see it ever coming to be or think humanity is too damn moronic or evil to do so.

I'm mostly thinking about this right now due to a thread I saw yesterday in another board I regularly go to. It was a thread about space exploration, full of wonderful pictures of Mars, galaxies, etc. Everyone there delighted in the subject, and many even stood back in awe at how far we've come since the days where we were still dreaming about taking flight. One poster remarked how he wished mankind would put aside their differences and work together to further explore the cosmos, but he was immediately assaulted and even called a "commie" for daring to raise the possibility. Some of them remarked that most people are too dumb and ignorant to fully appreciate the possibilities of technological advancement and the drive to learn more about the universe, while others went on about how, by nature, humans are and always will be too busy blowing each other up to look to the stars with any significant passion.

What does one even say to these kinds of statements? I'm especially troubled by the misanthropic statements myself. It's one thing to have a negative outlook on the future ("it's a nice idea, but it just won't happen"), but the narrative of humans inherently being warmongering bastards is loaded as fuck and I don't even know where to begin deconstructing it. And of course there's the hint of elitism in all of this, for those who complain about people being too dumb or too bloodthirsty to progress likely see themselves as being above the unenlightened rabble. It makes me wonder if any of them have ever tried to struggle to make their dream come true, but I'm sure it's far easier for one to sit at their computer and complain about "people."

Nevertheless, behind all the negativity, I saw a desire for a world where their drive to look towards the skies would be appreciated, encouraged, and even funded. I want to tap into that, and present an alternative. I want to show them how such a world is indeed possible. I just fear they've built a wall, an ivory tower where they sit and do nothing but whine and complain about how such a thing can never come to be.

Has anyone else experienced this? How have you dealt with this?

[MarxSchmarx]

So isn't this just a variation of the "people are too selfish/greedy" line?

[Cynic]

I am very cynical but i still do see hope for a revolution. But many people are too brainwashed about leftist politics because of the propaganda shoved down their throats. They think capitalism can be tamed by regulation but are unable to see that capitalism is the problem.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

I am very cynical but i still do see hope for a revolution. But many people are too brainwashed about leftist politics because of the propaganda shoved down their throats. They think capitalism can be tamed by regulation but are unable to see that capitalism is the problem.
I'm with Cynic here ^^^^^

I'd love to see a revolution. Sometimes I feel hopeful ... most recently with the Arab Spring and the demonstrations across Europe ... before that during the 2008 Greece demonstrations. But sometimes I just don't see it happening in my lifetime.

[squarethecircle]

I've struggled with my own misanthropic views for a good while now. It's truly difficult, being a raging utopianist, to see hope inside of the "lazy-american" world I see everyday. I agree with Cynic, as well. But then, like clockwork, when I'm at my darkest, someone always comes into my life who is truly inspired by human progress. Which is more than enough to pull me out and continue to try to inspire others.

The only way to tear those towers down is to turn their attacks against them (expose loopholes and/or errors in their thinking). The emptiness created by Abrahamic religions is also a huge burden on our progress...

[Os Cangaceiros]

Yeah, I definitely sympathize with misanthropes. Sometimes it seems like the only way humanity has improved itself is that now we have a longer lifespan to get screwed over, as well as more comfortable living standards (well, for some of us anyway). I mean, look at history: we make a lot of the fact that different economic orders have been foisted upon people over the centuries, but all of them have been characterized by an entrenched minority screwing over a majority, except perhaps in some anthropological studies. Sometimes I don't see this condition ever changing.

I look at it like this: humans have tendencies that are both good and bad. There's genocide and there are people who commit very selfless acts for others. Our goal is to create a system that mitigates humanity's negative aspects while trying to cultivate and improve our positive aspects. I don't doubt that our negative traits will never completely disappear, but I don't think that humanity's raging Id will be the downfall of a truly better order, either.

What's more, a lot of things that are attributed to innate human deficiences are false. Two such examples are war and racism. The children of slaves and the children of slave masters played frequently in the antebellum South...it was only when they got a little order that this was discouraged, and they were taught their economic caste. And if humans are naturally bloodthirsty and savage, how come there has frequently been a problem of new recruits and draftees not firing to kill when they first encounter the enemy? They'll just fire high, or fire in the general direction. It's because they don't want to kill other people. This needs to be beaten into them with ideology and dehumanization.

[La Comédie Noire]

Well tell them just because they were made fun of for being fat in high school doesn't mean humanity is hopelessly evil.

And yes, I'm no longer allowed to pamphlet for my organization.


In all serious though it's a good idea to find out the root cause of why they think humanity is evil or who told them it was evil. A lot of this stuff has been programmed into us since we were kids. How many cartoons did you see where people couldn't share something so they concluded "well maybe it's better if we just didn't have it at all!" only to have them promptly give up the object in question?

[black magick hustla]

everything radiates with calamity. i sometimes think that you have to be a pessimist to understand fully the communist project

[tbasherizer]

Pessimists usually don't understand how good we have it now relative to the past. They may say we only have longer lives to get screwed over in, but they don't realize how badly they would have been screwed over had they lived in say, feudal China or ancient Egypt. Move the conversation from the amazing features of the universe to the amazingness of the science that found those features and the technology derived from it and the potential it carries for humanity. Tell them that it's lazy and no better than the "unwashed masses" to just mope about, complaining about how everything is evil and set against them. Tell the pessimists that for us to realize humanity's potential, they'll need to get off their asses and set right that which they find so wrong. It's possible- we've sent people to the Moon and robots past Pluto when the writers of the Bible thought we weren't good enough to build a tower out of mud in Babylon. Tell them that the cynics of the past have been proven wrong again and again and that the glory of history can be theirs if they work for it!

[Dulce et Decorum est]

I think it is healthy to be a bit cynical & misanthropic of our society & humanity in general. However, time and time again it has been shown that when people do get together and set aside their differences then great things get done. I am cynical and a bit misanthropic, but I still have faith in humanity & I still feel that Communism (Or at the very, very least, Socialism) has a good chance to succeed.

[Rss]

How many cartoons did you see where people couldn't share something so they concluded "well maybe it's better if we just didn't have it at all!" only to have them promptly give up the object in question?

I can name a few, but what do you mean by this?

I've been slowly rising from my cynical and misanthropic grave lately. Got to say that I've seldom felt better. I really cannot give out any tips as I have mostly done this on my own. Still, gotta love mankind sometimes. :wub:

[Susurrus]

Example:


mKaLvi78dMs