Afghanistan before Soviet Invasion

[LegendZ]

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It's interesting to see the differing points. I love of the Muslim at the beginning said that the Soviets were TRYING to make everyone equal. I'm glad this came back to bite the US in it's ass. Although it's funny how the US is in the same predicament wit Afghanistan and the similarities each government faced. Kabul pleaded with Moscow to send soviet troops. Kabul is pleading with the US to send more US troops. Mass desertion. Low Morale. Low popular support.

eaGhgi0mCRoBTW if you've never seen what a FIM-92 Stinger can do to an aircraft... Well all you need to know is you can't retrieve any scrap metal.

[Ismail]

Keep in mind that while the Afghan Government did indeed request Soviet troops, two things need to be remembered.

First, that was under Taraki. Taraki was later killed by Hafizullah Amin, who began moving away from a strictly Soviet sphere of influence. Amin was actually more "radical" than Taraki, although in foreign policy he was less slavishly pro-Soviet. The Soviets decided to send troops in and shoot Amin dead, so saying that the Soviets were "invited" in ignores that they weren't invited by the same leadership by the time they actually entered the country.

Second, the government itself was always unpopular (alleviated only somewhat in the late 80's after Najibullah's reforms), and this is pretty clear when you see the phone-call Taraki made begging the Soviets to enter the country: http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft7b69p12h&chunk.id=appd&toc.depth=1&toc.id=&brand=eschol

The Soviets acted as an occupying force once they arrived and the country was turned into a neo-colony, which further eroded the popularity of the government. On January 5, 1980 Hoxha noted the following: "Having occupied Afghanistan and placed it under the iron heel of their military forces, the Soviet social-imperialist aggressors are now trying to 'placate' public opinion by claiming that they have dispatched only a few contingents which will stay there 'temporarily', 'only as long as necessary', but in fact they will stay there indefinitely. They will act in Afghanistan as they did in Czechoslovakia where, even today, 12 years later, their occupation troops are still stationed." (Selected Works Vol. V, p. 755.)

See also: http://ml-review.ca/aml/AllianceIssues/ALLIANCE45AFGHANISTAN.html

[Rafiq]

At 1:42 I was like HOLY SHIT IT'S FUCKING KHAD!

[L.A.P.]

(alleviated only somewhat in the late 80's after Najibullah's reforms),l (http://ml-review.ca/aml/AllianceIssues/ALLIANCE45AFGHANISTAN.html)

So what were Najibullah's reforms and were they significant enough to make him as idolized as he seems to be?

[Ismail]

So what were Najibullah's reforms and were they significant enough to make him as idolized as he seems to be?He praised Allah in national prayers broadcast across TV screens and ended the "socialist" façade the government had as the 1987 constitution declared Afghanistan's an Islamic country, and Gorby-esque economic reforms were enacted. He accepted ending the PDPA's claim to Marxism in 1990.

[LegendZ]

Second, the government itself was always unpopular Really? Do you think religion had anything to do with this or was there another reason?

[khad]

BTW if you've never seen what a FIM-92 Stinger can do to an aircraft... Well all you need to know is you can't retrieve any scrap metal.
Full of shit. After interim modifications, not a single su-25 was lost to stingers. The weapon that claimed the most aircraft kills was the lowly heavy machinegun; the stinger just allowed the mujahideen to hit higher flying targets.

Helicopters are always vulnerable due to inherent structural and flight characteristics. That's just a fact of life.


First, that was under Taraki. Taraki was later killed by Hafizullah Amin, who began moving away from a strictly Soviet sphere of influence. Amin was actually more "radical" than Taraki, although in foreign policy he was less slavishly pro-Soviet. The Soviets decided to send troops in and shoot Amin dead, so saying that the Soviets were "invited" in ignores that they weren't invited by the same leadership by the time they actually entered the country.Amin was so great that he purged tens of thousands of communists from his own party, including Taraki. Sounds great in your ultraleft fantasy, but there wouldn't have been anyone left to effectively rule the country.


The Soviets acted as an occupying force once they arrived and the country was turned into a neo-colony, which further eroded the popularity of the government. On January 5, 1980 Hoxha noted the following: "Having occupied Afghanistan and placed it under the iron heel of their military forces,This just exemplifies the ultraleft delusions entertained by Hoxhaists. Yes, the Soviet Union is imperialist, and all victory to the mujahideen. The people who actually followed that advice were the Maoists like the ALO. Guess where they ended up after their deal with the fundies went sour? Dead, exterminated by the Hekmatyar group.


Really? Do you think religion had anything to do with this or was there another reason?
More popular than any mujahideen group, who were invariably ethnic or clan based. After the government fell, they just spent another 4 years killing each other.

[Ismail]

Really? Do you think religion had anything to do with this or was there another reason?Religion was a big region, and the fact that there was no revolution (it wasn't much more than a military coup) and the early leadership was rather incompetent. During the 1980's, of course, unpopularity also came from the Soviet occupiers and the fact that the Afghanistan had been turned, as I said, into a neo-colony.

And now onto Khad, who inevitably pops up in these threads.


Amin was so great that he purged tens of thousands of communists from his own party, including Taraki. Sounds great in your ultraleft fantasy, but there wouldn't have been anyone left to effectively rule the country.Amin seemed to be doing alright until the Soviets invaded and killed him.


This just exemplifies the ultraleft delusions entertained by Hoxhaists. Yes, the Soviet Union is imperialist, and all victory to the mujahideen. The people who actually followed that advice were the Maoists like the ALO. Guess where they ended up after their deal with the fundies went sour? Dead, exterminated by the Hekmatyar group.The urban-based (albeit tiny) pro-Albanian group Akhgar probably didn't meet such a fate. Tactical blunders against Soviet social-imperialism do not suddenly invalidate the fact that the Soviets had to be fought and driven from Afghanistan.

[Kléber]

Amin was so great that he purged tens of thousands of communists from his own party, including Taraki. Sounds great in your ultraleft fantasy, but there wouldn't have been anyone left to effectively rule the country.
Taraki was just as guilty of purging the party; Amin's clique killed him precisely because he tried to assassinate their boss. Karmal and Najibullah carried out even more purges to silence the majority of the party, and their rightist rule was the opposite of "effective."


The urban-based (albeit tiny) pro-Albanian group Akhgar probably didn't meet such a fate. Tactical blunders against Soviet social-imperialism do not suddenly invalidate the fact that the Soviets had to be fought and driven from Afghanistan.
The ALO and other Maoists were forced into illegal opposition by the PDPA, but any collaboration with reactionary fundamentalists was far worse than a "tactical blunder," it was a completely unprincipled pact with the class enemy and US imperialism, representative of the worst opportunism and sectarianism.

[L.A.P.]

He praised Allah in national prayers broadcast across TV screens and ended the "socialist" façade the government had as the 1987 constitution declared Afghanistan's an Islamic country, and Gorby-esque economic reforms were enacted. He accepted ending the PDPA's claim to Marxism in 1990.

So what was so great about him?

[Ismail]

So what was so great about him?Nothing. From the 1991 book Russia and the World, p. 244: "Najibullah may be said to perceive as broadly as befits a reformer not only Afghan problems but developments in other countries, in the Soviet Union, in Eastern Europe. 'The Soviet Union's new political thinking,' he said, 'is a real revolution of our times. It should be admitted that capitalism is ahead of socialism in many respects. We all used to advance slogans and theorize instead of coming up with initiatives. You can't feed people on slogans.'" He became a generic bourgeois politician distinguishable only because he was up against the Mujahidin.