Life in the USSR

[Mythbuster]

What was it like? I'm sure it had to be better than the feudal pigs that were reigning before Stalin.

I know I'm gonna get a lot of questions about socialism once school starts back. What questions should I be prepared to answer?

Also, what is everyone's opinion on north Korea?

[Sensible Socialist]

You might want to look through the High School Commie's guide for simple answers to frequently asked questions. Be prepared to encounter people who think socialism is the government owning everything and giving small rations to the rest of the people. You'll find most people envision bread lines and widespread famine, combined with political repression, when they think of socialism. Make sure to point out that the USSR, China, and North Korea were/are not socialist nor communist, and were failed attempts at such. Stick with the basics and try to focus on the practical applications of socialism to the lives of the people you're talking about. Tailor your message to your audience. For example, when I talk to students, I'll ask why they've never been to a professional football or baseball game, or only go to the movies once a year, or have to wait until the holidays for a gift. It's a bit more consumerist than I'd like to argue from, but it helps get the message across easier than quoting Marx and Engels.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/high-school-commie-t22370/index.html

[28350]

What was it like?

It was pretty bad.
By my pampered standards at least

[thesadmafioso]

Do you have any specific areas of life or a certain era that you would like any info on?

I recently picked up a great account on the Soviet Union as of 1967 taken by some New York Times reporters who visited there, and it has some superb interviews and the like. Quite unbiased too, something which is rare even with contemporary accounts. I'd be willing to post some excerpts here or some scans of it if you have any interest.

[Mythbuster]

Do you have any specific areas of life or a certain era that you would like any info on?

I recently picked up a great account on the Soviet Union as of 1967 taken by some New York Times reporters who visited there, and it has some superb interviews and the like. Quite unbiased too, something which is rare even with contemporary accounts. I'd be willing to post some excerpts here or some scans of it if you have any interest.

I'd be interested.

Also, I know I'll be asked the question: Why did socialism fail in other nations?

[thesadmafioso]

I'd be interested.

Also, I know I'll be asked the question: Why did socialism fail in other nations?

Alright, just give me some sort of idea of what you would like to know. Soviet culture, their educational system, everyday life, housing, those sorts of things. Life makes for a somewhat vague question without elaboration.

As for your question, I would say that socialism has never truly failed. The historical development of man will not fail to reach this stage of society, though it may of been delayed on occasion. Socialism has simply never really been allowed the necessary conditions for it to be met with full success. Where revolution has been made, it has often times been undertaken without the necessary international revolutionary movement to help foster its advance, leading to stagnation and short term setbacks. The capitalist class of the world has succeeded thus far only in tactics of delay, they have not the ability to stop the course of history and the proletarians eventual emancipation.

If you had any particular nations in mind with this question, feel free to mention them and I'm sure that either myself or another forum member would be more than willing to provide you with more information.

[Rafiq]

Compared to living standards in the west it was not good at all. But it was the best in Russia's history (Big accomplishment :rolleyes:) and was actually a paradise compared to third world nations.

[Tablo]

Depending on time period I would say it was either pretty decent or pretty shitty. There were times the Soviet Union had a relatively high standard of living for a capitalist nation, and other times they were awful, like WWII. A specific time frame would help.

[Nox]

It wasn't so bad, but at times it was a struggle to get by, it was very inefficient and people often had to queue for hours just to get a loaf of bread.

As for North Korea, it resembles nothing of Communism. But I gotta love it for not being intimidated by the USA :D

[Dire Helix]

Compared to living standards in the west it was not good at all. But it was the best in Russia's history (Big accomplishment :rolleyes:) and was actually a paradise compared to third world nations.Yeah, drastically improving living standards over 1/6 of the planet`s surface and bringing about the most positive social change in its history is not an accomplishment at all. Try harder.

I`m not even a supporter of the system that existed in the USSR, but joke posts like this make me defend it.


It wasn't so bad, but at times it was a struggle to get by, it was very inefficient and people often had to queue for hours just to get a loaf of bread.

ITT: people who`ve never lived in the USSR make ridiculous statements about the scarcity of bread there.

Bread was cheap and plentiful. Even in the last year of Gorbachev`s reforms when food magically started to disappear from store shelves, bread was still easy to come by.

[DarkPast]

Have a look at this blog, it has tons of info and photos, and you can search by time period: http://www.realussr.com/

[Pioneers_Violin]

I was talking with someone from Czechoslovakia the other day and I asked how things were in the USSR.

His answer: "Not bad. If you got sick they took care of you and when you retired you were well taken care of. Otherwise it was nothing special. You didn't have very much money but it went pretty far. If you aquired a $100 bill, it was worth about 2 months pay in the 1980's."

He is a fellow worker, so I'm assuming that people willing to work were treated fairly.

[Susurrus]

http://www.lietuvos.org/istorija/communism/communism_photos1/26europeos.jpg

http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/montana_de_cadaveres_en_un_gulag_sovietico.jpg

http://gulaghistory.org/nps/onlineexhibit/stalin/work-src/images/belbaltlag_detail.jpg

http://southcarolina1670.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/gulag.jpg

http://iamyouasheisme.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/solzhenitsyngulagmugshot1953.jpg

[thesadmafioso]

http://www.lietuvos.org/istorija/communism/communism_photos1/26europeos.jpg

http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/montana_de_cadaveres_en_un_gulag_sovietico.jpg

http://gulaghistory.org/nps/onlineexhibit/stalin/work-src/images/belbaltlag_detail.jpg

http://southcarolina1670.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/gulag.jpg

http://iamyouasheisme.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/solzhenitsyngulagmugshot1953.jpg

I've little more than disdain and scorn for the political repression of Stalin, but this is just a crude tactic of argumentation. You know full well as I do that any random Stalinist could stumble upon this threat and post a few pictures of a May Day parade under Stalin or various Soviet citizens of the era in an contented state.

Beyond that even, the depravity of Stalin can be seen as being largely separate from the life and the culture of the Soviet Union, even under his rule. As dictatorial and power crazed as he was, it is still important to separate the Soviet workers state from Stalin's attempts to derail its progress.

[Rafiq]

[QUOTE=RedScare1917;2207980]Yeah, drastically improving living standards over 1/6 of the planet`s surface and bringing about the most positive social change in its history is not an accomplishment at all. Try harder.

/QUOTE]

You don't get my post. Even if Russia barely improved it's still not an accomplishment, because living standards in Russia were always really fucked up until the Soviet Union.

So it's not like saying "Socialism in America was the best it ever had" because that is an accomplishment, because America is known for good living standards. Russia under the Tsar, wasn't. An inch better would have been inevitable.

[Rafiq]

He posted that because we've all seen the happy and sunshiny part of Stalinism via the ML's.

He's just posting another side of the story.

[Comrade_Stalin]

You might want to look through the High School Commie's guide for simple answers to frequently asked questions. Be prepared to encounter people who think socialism is the government owning everything and giving small rations to the rest of the people. You'll find most people envision bread lines and widespread famine, combined with political repression, when they think of socialism. Make sure to point out that the USSR, China, and North Korea were/are not socialist nor communist, and were failed attempts at such. Stick with the basics and try to focus on the practical applications of socialism to the lives of the people you're talking about. Tailor your message to your audience. For example, when I talk to students, I'll ask why they've never been to a professional football or baseball game, or only go to the movies once a year, or have to wait until the holidays for a gift. It's a bit more consumerist than I'd like to argue from, but it helps get the message across easier than quoting Marx and Engels.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/high-school-commie-t22370/index.html

First High School Commie's guide, then hippie communes for all.

[CHE with an AK]

http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/montana_de_cadaveres_en_un_gulag_sovietico.jpg
Susurrus, since I sometimes agree with your posts I am pretty shocked that you would traffic in this right-wing anti-communist bullshit of images. For instance the link to where this above image comes from is "Save Your Heritage" the laughably pathetic and horrendously offensive white supremacist website ...

http://www.saveyourheritage.com/
WARNING - SITE IS AMAZINGLY RACIST

Under these forum's usual rules of conduct/content, I fail to see how this is allowed outside of the OI forum. :confused:







http://iamyouasheisme.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/solzhenitsyngulagmugshot1953.jpg

Solzhenitsyn is a lying fraudulent propagandist piece of shit! The anti-communist Goebbels. Any non-restricted revlefter parroting his litany of negationist crap should be ashamed of their own supposed intelligence. :bored:

I should never see this asshole's face on these forums unless it is on a "nominate your choice for pig-fucker of the 20th century" thread. :cursing:

[Nox]

For instance the link to where this above image comes from is "Save Your Heritage" the laughably pathetic and horrendously offensive white supremacist website ...


http://gadgetsteria.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/pwned.jpg

[Susurrus]

Susurrus, since I sometimes agree with your posts I am pretty shocked that you would traffic in this right-wing anti-communist bullshit of images. For instance the link to where this above image comes from is "Save Your Heritage" the laughably pathetic and horrendously offensive white supremacist website ...
Under these forum's usual rules of conduct/content, I fail to see how this is allowed outside of the OI forum. :confused:




Solzhenitsyn is a lying fraudulent propagandist piece of shit! The anti-communist Goebbels. Any non-restricted revlefter parroting his litany of negationist crap should be ashamed of their own supposed intelligence. :bored:

I should never see this asshole's face on these forums unless it is on a "nominate your choice for pig-fucker of the 20th century" thread. :cursing:


I got the images from google, but even so does it really matter what website they are from if they show something real? True a supremacist website is more likely to host anti-communist photos, but if we were to post photos of capitalist crimes here, couldn't they say, by your logic, that they don't matter since they are from a leftist website?

And though Solzhenitsyn's "Jesus take the wheel" politics is crap, I believe that he was honest enough in his accounts of the gulag. If he was not, please post a source countering this.

[CHE with an AK]

I got the images from google, but even so does it really matter what website they are from if they show something real?
1. Maybe you should check your sources better next time.

2. Since you weren't there, how do you know they are "real". Moreover, you are implying a context to the photos that is false. By just showing 2 men being executed or a pile of dead bodies while implying that this was regular practice at gulags or people were killed in mass. Is the pile of bodies people who died of disease, starvation, execution? Is it even from a gulag or is it a NAZI concentration camp photo? If it even in Russia? When was the photo taken? Where was it taken? Why were the men being shot? Were they war criminals, nazi torturers, kiddie fuckers, or misguided anarchists handing out flowers? How did Solzhenitsyn somehow survive all of these awful conditions to later write about them? Why did he then become an apologist for U.S. imperialism? Was he paid by the capitalist West to traffic in this anti-communist crap?

But then again you now admit that you are anti-Lenin and anti-Bolshevik as well, so I'm not sure you are even worth arguing with outside of the OI forum.




And though Solzhenitsyn's "Jesus take the wheel" politics is crap, I believe that he was honest enough in his accounts of the gulag.
Solzhenitsyn was a racist, Slavo-ophile nationalist, and revisionist anti-communist propagandist who supported the murder of 4 million Vietnamese by American forces.

[chegitz guevara]

At the original poster. There's a book titled, A Day in the Life of the USSR. you might want to find.

[Tommy4ever]

Solzhenitsyn was a racist, Slavo-ophile nationalist, and revisionist anti-communist propagandist who supported the murder of 4 million Vietnamese by American forces.

Yes, he was all these things and the sort of person who hung around Reagan, was a Great Russian Nationalist, anti-semite, Orthodox Christian fanatic and not so far from Fascism.




Solzhenitsyn is a lying fraudulent propagandist piece of shit! The anti-communist Goebbels. Any non-restricted revlefter parroting his litany of negationist crap should be ashamed of their own supposed intelligence. :bored:


But you really need to get your head out of your ass. Much of Solhenitsyn's politics were formed through his experiences in Stalin's Russia - and his book about the Gulags was written based on his own personal experiences. Just because he was politically a nasty piece of work doesn't mean that what he saw happened to him didn't happen to him. I've seen you take the position in numerous threads now that if a bourgeios, or an anti-communist says something then it is automatically false. Did you ever think that one of the reasons so many people are repulsed by Stalinism is that flawed logic of 'if they don't agree with me, they must be lying'. I don't know how you can ever hope to form a coherent and accurate picture of the world if you refuse to even consider evidence from someone who is politically opposed to you - actually, I do know, you seem to have no intention of forming such a picture.

[Strannik]

What was it like? I'm sure it had to be better than the feudal pigs that were reigning before Stalin.

I know I'm gonna get a lot of questions about socialism once school starts back. What questions should I be prepared to answer?

Also, what is everyone's opinion on north Korea?

Life in USSR in late 70's to 80's as I remember it from my childhood: general abundance of basic goods and services; having a job, house, healthcare, food was accepted as natural. Consumer/luxury goods either shoddy or very rare; thrieving black market and "gift" economy. Thought, art and expression generally subjugated to (both real and imaginary) "security interests" of the bureaucray. No sense of progress or development. Increasing nationalism and shovinism - both by russians and by all other nations. In schoolbooks: Lenin presented as Jesus-like genius superhuman. Stalin not mentioned at all. Trotsky mentioned in one sentence as "minor fashist traitor". "Truth" generally defined as "that what the Party functionary just said". :D

Tell them in school that with today's technology and historical experience we could do a lot better job than either side of the Cold War.

My opinion on North Korea is that it's a military camp under siege.

[CHE with an AK]

Yes, (Solzhenitsyn) was all these things and the sort of person who hung around Reagan, was a Great Russian Nationalist, anti-semite, Orthodox Christian fanatic and not so far from Fascism.
"If I would care to generalise, and to say that the life of the Jews in the (gulag) camps was especially hard, I could, and would not face reproach for an unjust national generalisation. But in the camps where I was kept, it was different. The Jews whose experience I saw - their life was softer than that of others."
— Alexander Solzhenitsyn, 2003



"Who is to be blamed, who led us to our death? To explain the actions of the Kiev Cheka only by the fact that two thirds were Jews, is certainly incorrect."
— Alexander Solzhenitsyn, 2003


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/jan/25/russia.books (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/jan/25/russia.books)


ps. Stormfront loves Solzhenitsn, throw his name in the google to see

Once you are familiar with Shitsyn's (I prefer this spelling) modus operandi you realize that the second question is exactly the kind of insinuation he loves to make. It would be like racistly saying "certainly blaming his violent crime on him being black, would not be the whole story". Moreover, once you realize he is a "come to Jesus" freak who made up stories of Jews coming to him to find Jesus in the gulags - and that he has made it his life mission to stop "commies" from taking on Christianity - his motives for his propaganda become crystal clear.





But you really need to get your head out of your ass.
So we have an admitted ~ racist, right-wing, Christian zealot, anti-Semite, nationalist, Nazi sympathizer, who thinks Hitler was worse than Stalin, favors monarchies, favors U.S. imperialism, and then makes a living writing anti-Soviet pseudo histories for right-wing Reaganites while advocating for Franco's Fascism .... but yet, if you question the authenticity of his extraordinary claims you have your "head in your ass"? :confused:

Would you trust Joseph Goebbels to teach you the history of Hanukkah? Or how about Glenn Beck to teach you about the October Revolution - oh that's right! Beck basically echoes Shitsyn's revisionist crap!





Much of Solhenitsyn's politics were formed through his experiences in Stalin's Russia - and his book about the Gulags was written based on his own personal experiences.
Actually, much of Shitsyn's "politics" were formed while in a camp in Kazakhstan, much of it after Stalin had already died. He was primarily a fictional novelist who created stories from thin air, and actually not bad at composing literature. This is when the anti-USSR cabal realized they could utilize him to put his literary talents to work on his gulag "testimony" of people who were no longer alive, or named in full, to corroborate the stories. These stories then entered the popular memory and before too long, the spiral of creation was complete.

[CHE with an AK]

Life in USSR in late 70's to 80's as I remember it from my childhood: general abundance of basic goods and services; having a job, house, healthcare, food was accepted as natural.

So you mean you didn't have to eat aborted fetuses out of an Orthodox priest's human skull while being sodomized by a hairy black goat wearing a rubber Stalin mask inside of a concentration death camp??? But, I read on the internetz!!:hammersickle:!3! :rolleyes:





In schoolbooks: Lenin presented as Jesus-like genius superhuman.

Wow, that's offensively understated ...
















http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_D_P6_eLlaTQ/TKNKt046KgI/AAAAAAAAA3k/vbtKYDGDMU4/s72-c/lenin1.gif to Lenin :cool:

[CHE with an AK]

I believe that he was honest enough in his accounts of the gulag. If he was not, please post a source countering this.
Since you have already said that if something is "true" it shouldn't matter the source, and since you are clearly willing to consider the arguments of the anti-Stalinists ... I wonder if you are equally able to consider the evidence/arguments of the Stalinists themselves?


http://www.stalinsociety.org.uk/lies.html#Solzhenitsyn

[Kornilios Sunshine]

Everyone had high paying jobs and worked for them for less than 5 hours.The education was great and unemployment and crime were history.

[runequester]

The USSR existed past 1953, yet even leftists insist on defining it purely by Stalin.

America was founded on the genocide of the native population, but nobody brings that up when discussing the constitution.