Is Holocaust Denial the same as defending Adolf Hitler ?

[tradeunionsupporter]

Is Holocaust Denial the same as defending Adolf Hitler National Socialism/Nazism/Racism and or Nazi Germany and the Nazis what Im asking is do people who deny the Holocaust want to defend Adolf Hitler and make him look like a good person in my opinion the answer is yes because most Holocaust Deniers are Neo Nazis and Racists and Anti Semites and hate all Jews does anyone agree with me I also want to say one more thing I understand why Neo Nazis and Racists and or White Supremacists and Fascists deny the Jewish Holocaust but why do some Muslims deny the Holocaust I don't get it because Muslims did not do that evil thing Nazi Germany did ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial



Dedicated to 12 million Holocaust victims who suffered and died
at the hands of Adolf Hitler (http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hitler-adolf/) and his Nazi regime


Given the evidence ... why do people deny the Holocaust?


The cynical truth comes to us by way of an obscure extremist group (http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/national-socialist-white-peoples-party/), which boasts:
"The real purpose of holocaust revisionism is to make
National Socialism an acceptable political alternative again."


http://www.nizkor.org/
Not in Denial Anymore

Book Review by Andrew Stone, July 2002
Review of 'Telling Lies About Hitler', Richard J Evans, Verso �14 and 'The Holocaust on Trial', DD Guttenplan, Granta �9.99

http://www.socialistreview.org.uk/article.php?articlenumber=8083

[tradeunionsupporter]

Please reply to this thread anyone thank you.

[Sensible Socialist]

I was reading that a growing number of Palestinians do not believe the immense proportions of the Holocaust, and believe it was simply overstated in order to garner more support for Israel. It's understandable, in a way, considering the pressure Palestinians are under on a daily basis.

[tradeunionsupporter]

I agree I don't think Muslims and Arabs and Palestinians deny the Holocaust because they like Adolf Hitler Nazis and Racism I think they deny the Holocaust because the Zionists and the State of Israel and the Israelis use the Holocaust for Sympathy.

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

I was reading that a growing number of Palestinians do not believe the immense proportions of the Holocaust, and believe it was simply overstated in order to garner more support for Israel. It's understandable, in a way, considering the pressure Palestinians are under on a daily basis.

It may be understandable intellectually but it should be strongly condemned. If anything it could be argued that what they are facing is essentially no different than what the Jews and many old Israelis went through during the holocaust. I think this would make a more powerful point then denying the holocaust or large portions of it. I have spoken to many and I simply do not understand why they would deny the holocaust. No genocide should be tolerated or white-washed from history.

[Decolonize The Left]

Is Holocaust Denial the same as defending Adolf Hitler National Socialism/Nazism/Racism and or Nazi Germany and the Nazis what Im asking is do people who deny the Holocaust want to defend Adolf Hitler and make him look like a good person in my opinion the answer is yes because most Holocaust Deniers are Neo Nazis and Racists and Anti Semites and hate all Jews does anyone agree with me I also want to say one more thing I understand why Neo Nazis and Racists and or White Supremacists and Fascists deny the Jewish Holocaust but why do some Muslims deny the Holocaust I don't get it because Muslims did not do that evil thing Nazi Germany did ?

No. Holocaust Denial is not the same thing as promoting/defending Nazis. They are often interrelated in the sense that Nazis might see the motive in denying the holocaust, but other Nazis might be proud of Hitler's actions. So they are not one and the same.

Also, you might consider using periods (.) and commas (,) in the future. It makes reading your paragraph much, much, easier.

- August

[Zealot]

Holocaust denial is sometimes confused for other things. For example, i once pointed out to a Jew that 6 million non-jews were also killed in the genocide, he then proceeded to call me a holocaust denier. Others believe that a holocaust did happen but that the number of victims has been exaggerated, which they perceive themselves to be doing on intellectual grounds. However, real holocaust deniers have a lot to prove if they want to hold that position.

[Nox]

Pretty much anyone who has any sort of hatred towards Jews for whatever reason tends to deny the Holocaust or at least downplay the numbers, simply as a personal attack against the Jewish race as a whole.

This applies to:

- Palestinians
- Some Arabs in general
- People with a hatred for Israel
- White Supremacists/Nationalists
- Nazis
- Fascists
- NWO Conspiracy Theorists (lol)

[Tommy4ever]

The Muslims who deny the Holocaust usually do so on anti-Israel grounds. There is clear anti-Semetism here - they feel that Jews get special treatment because of the Holocaust and are thus just reacting against this.

There is also a feeling that the only reason Israel exists is because of sympathy over the Holocaust and this too causes anger.

Other people who deny the Holocaust will do so out of a mixture of Anti-Semetism, apologism for the Nazis, or apologism for the actions of Germans in the war (some German nationalists have attempted to do this not out of love for the Nazis but out of a wish to get rid of German guilt from the war, that still has influence today).

I don't think it is exactly the same as apologism for the Nazis - as this can be done through different approaches, but it is a sort Nazi apologism.

[ColonelCossack]

I think Palestinians can be forgiven for any anti-semitism, particularly because zionism is very similar to lebensraum- it's a homeland for jewish people, or a homeland for aryans.

[Iron Felix]

Indeed. The only holocaust deniars out there I know are anti-semites and anti-Zionists and the crazies that say the evil Jews are the secret rulers of the world and engineer every atrocity bla bla. It's all very silly. Hitler caused the death of 26 million Soviets, of my people, I have no reason to doubt the holocaust. 12 million is a low estime, the highest is 17 million. Almost 6 million Jews, about 3 million Soviet PoWs, 2 million Poles, 8 million Russian, Ukrainian and Belarussians civilians. Also the Roma, who were nearly exterminated, they had it even worse than the Jews.

We know how many atrocities Hitler has committed, why deny the part about Jews? If you start saying the Jews weren't systematically murdered under the Nazis, what comes next? Then it could be claimed Hitler didn't commit any of the other crimes against humanity and eventually you'll end up with Hitler being a pretty nice guy and national socialism being a legitimate idealogy.

And it's not just the holocaust. What about the 30 million people the Japenese slaughtered in the East? Or earlier, the 7 million Ukrainians Stalin starved to death to prevent Ukrainian Nationalism from becoming strong.

[Rafiq]

I think Palestinians can be forgiven for any anti-semitism, particularly because zionism is very similar to lebensraum- it's a homeland for jewish people, or a homeland for aryans.

I don't think this is a valid statement.

Perhaps we shouldn't "forgive" them for making such statements, as anti semitism is by not means acceptable on any grounds.

What we could do, however, is accept that Palestine does not have a very effecent (spelled wrong, sorry) means of educating it's masses, soi antisemitism is something that is expected. However, the Hamas, that of which has leaders who are educated, should receive no sympathy, considering they're the ones spreading antisemitic propaganda from birth.

[Tommy4ever]

Indeed. The only holocaust deniars out there I know are anti-semites and anti-Zionists and the crazies that say the evil Jews are the secret rulers of the world and engineer every atrocity bla bla. It's all very silly. Hitler caused the death of 26 million Soviets, of my people, I have no reason to doubt the holocaust. 12 million is a low estime, the highest is 17 million. Almost 6 million Jews, about 3 million Soviet PoWs, 2 million Poles, 8 million Russian, Ukrainian and Belarussians civilians. Also the Roma, who were nearly exterminated, they had it even worse than the Jews.

We know how many atrocities Hitler has committed, why deny the part about Jews? If you start saying the Jews weren't systematically murdered under the Nazis, what comes next? Then it could be claimed Hitler didn't commit any of the other crimes against humanity and eventually you'll end up with Hitler being a pretty nice guy and national socialism being a legitimate idealogy.

And it's not just the holocaust. What about the 30 million people the Japenese slaughtered in the East? Or earlier, the 7 million Ukrainians Stalin starved to death to prevent Ukrainian Nationalism from becoming strong.

The murders of Soviet civilians are not usually included in Holocaust death tolls. But around 17 million Soviet civilians died during the war.

BTW, modern post-Glasnost (and thus much more accurate) estimates of Holodomor deaths stands at 3-3.5 million. Just to give some perspective as this is the worst crime associated with the Soviet Union (and seemed to have a lot more to do with incompetence, and the fact the central government cared much more for its wider economic targets than a malicious will to slaughter).

[Nox]

7 million Ukrainians Stalin starved to death to prevent Ukrainian Nationalism from becoming strong.

lolwut

[Tomhet]

Also the Roma, who were nearly exterminated, they had it even worse than the Jews.


I don't really think the Jews "had it even worse" then the Jews.. Whether you were Gay, Communist, Jewish, or a Roma etc, you're being marched off to the camps either way...

[Tommy4ever]

lolwut

He's basically using mentioning Robert Conquest's idea of the ''Terror Famine'' in reference to the Holodomor. Using one of the higher estimates of the death toll, he also infers that the famine in the Ukraine was a deliberate policy of the Soviet government to break resistance to Stalin's regime.

Its a popular thesis amongst anti-communists.

[Nox]

he also infers that the famine in the Ukraine was a deliberate policy of the Soviet government to break resistance to Stalin's regime

:laugh:

[PassTheBeer]

I'm interested why the great leap forward, cultural revolution ,holdomor , armenian genocide etc. -denial isnt ilegal ? Is it becouse they don't include Jews ? hmm

[RGacky3]

none of it is illigal, its all stupid, but not illigal.

[Thirsty Crow]

I think Palestinians can be forgiven for any anti-semitism, particularly because zionism is very similar to lebensraum- it's a homeland for jewish people, or a homeland for aryans.
Why should a viciously anti-working class sentiment be condoned? Why should we condone reactionary political positions which undermine the possibility of working class unity?

[Nox]

I'm interested why the great leap forward, cultural revolution ,holdomor , armenian genocide etc. -denial isnt ilegal ? Is it becouse they don't include Jews ? hmm

That's a fucking gem right there.

It is because they don't have a totally undeniable amount of proof, the Holocaust has so much proof that you have to be an anti-semite to deny it.

Btw, some other Commies will disagree with me here, but the Holdomor never happened :laugh:

[Tomhet]

I'm interested why the great leap forward, cultural revolution ,holdomor , armenian genocide etc. -denial isnt ilegal ? Is it becouse they don't include Jews ? hmm

I'm pretty sure it is in Ukraine..

[Thirsty Crow]

I'm interested why the great leap forward, cultural revolution ,holdomor , armenian genocide etc. -denial isnt ilegal ? Is it becouse they don't include Jews ? hmm
Do you wish to expand on your views, which seems likely given the "hmm"?

[Nox]

Do you wish to expand on your views, which seems likely given the "hmm"?

Everyone knows it's a big New World Order, Zionist, Illuminati, Freemason, Reptilian conspiracy ;)

[Thirsty Crow]

Everyone knows it's a big New World Order, Zionist, Illuminati, Freemason, Reptilian conspiracy ;)
Now now, don't put words in PassTheBeer's mouth. He has yet to clarify what she/he meant ;)

[hatzel]

It could equally well be merely defending modernity, in fact. Many defend modernity when they claim that the Holocaust was somehow 'distinct' from modernity as it stands. Those who want to convince themselves that it was a 'throwback' to an earlier, barbaric age, rather than the most 'perfected' expression of modernity, of society as it stands. Whilst use of the word 'perfected' may seem strange, inasmuch as it seems to imply that the Holocaust was a 'perfect' thing, or somehow 'good,' I feel it's the most suitable choice, as it shows the perfection of modernity, relative only to itself and its own intentions and trends, without implying that modernity itself is positive.

Zygmunt Bauman has written a fair amount of really good stuff on the Holocaust as a product of modernity, of the intersection between the desire to expel that which disturbs us (the burka debate going on across the Western world, along with the Swiss referendum on minarets, should stand as testament to the continued urge many still have to eradicate 'disturbances,' that is to say, 'foreign' cultural practices and other such non-'normal' elements of society) and modern business / bureaucracy / etc., necessary in order to achieve it. By the latter, I mean the similarities between an unquestioning worker in a factory, obeying commands in performing 'their' task, making some component over and over, unaware of the 'bigger picture,' how this component will, along with countless others, be assembled into something, and the task of a German soldier, again unquestioning, obeying commands in, for example, loading people onto trains, without questioning where these people came from, and where they're going; in both cases, success and competence is measured in how well the individual in question can complete the task set them, and our whole society is built on ensuring that those at the bottom of the pyramid meet the demands of those higher up, without questioning their actions from an ethical perspective (and often being unable to, as they may be unaware what the implications of their actions are, what 'bigger picture' they are contributing to).

With that in mind, denying the Holocaust, or elements of it, could also come from a desire to exonerate our modern era and society, a certain sense of system-justification, from the disbelief that such things could happen. Whilst some go about this by denying that the Holocaust had anything to do with modernity as it stands, that it was a temporary relapse into the Medieval, a breakdown in the system (Bauman compares this to the Holocaust as merely a picture on the wall, removed from 'reality' and instead observed as a historical peculiarity), there are others who acknowledge that the Holocaust constitutes a part of the 20th century system, who cannot detach it from modernity, and, in refusing to allow the system of modernity – which they view favourably – take the blame for such an atrocity, convince themselves that it must not have happened. Or, at least, not as it is portrayed. Not as a systematic action, though they may still accept that isolated soldiers (the 'evil' ones, of course) may have autonomously decided to engage in massacres, mass shootings, but, like the others, claim that this was a result of the system – which they claim would prevent individuals from committing such atrocities – breaking down, ceasing to operate properly. That any massacres they acknowledge happening were a result of the lack of discipline amongst the troops, rather than, as the case is, rigid, unshakable discipline and obedience. See the Milgram Experiment, one of the more famous psychological investigations into the enforced obedience that could lead to such atrocities.

Those who adhere to the latter position may or may not defend Hitler outright – though there is a tacit defense insofar as the claim is that there was no systematic intention, – but it would be dishonest to call such Holocaust denial an attempt to defend Hitler, as this is merely a consequence of the true desire; to defend the system of modernity which birthed the Holocaust. Though this may see itself as a Holocaust denial which does not even deny the Holocaust, merely that it was systematic, that it was intentional. That there may have been work camps, but nobody was intended to die there, even though they did. This is usually accompanied by an attempt to reduce the numbers, because it is infeasible that so many people could have perished by mistake, through oversight.

[RedAnarchist]

I'm interested why the great leap forward, cultural revolution ,holdomor , armenian genocide etc. -denial isnt ilegal ? Is it becouse they don't include Jews ? hmm

Actually, the Holocaust could be said to have caused the deaths of many groups, not just the Jewish. Communists, homosexuals, Roma, Slavs, the mentally or physically disabled etc. Whilst the word itself is used to describe the mass murder of Jews, the concentration and death camps were populated by all of these groups.

As for the Holodomor, around a third of the urban Ukrainian population at the time was Jewish.

[ColonelCossack]

I don't think this is a valid statement.

Perhaps we shouldn't "forgive" them for making such statements, as anti semitism is by not means acceptable on any grounds.

What we could do, however, is accept that Palestine does not have a very effecent (spelled wrong, sorry) means of educating it's masses, soi antisemitism is something that is expected. However, the Hamas, that of which has leaders who are educated, should receive no sympathy, considering they're the ones spreading antisemitic propaganda from birth.

I think you're right. Perhaps I should have written "anti-zionism"- but then, anyone can be forgiven for anti zionism, because anti-zionism is a legitimate cause.

[Thirsty Crow]

@La Sombra: can you elaborate on the notion of modernity and the way you use it specifically in relation to the Holocaust? I take it that you are saying that "modernity" refers to the structure of business and bureaucracy (does that include forms of rationality, or in other words, specific ways of producing knowledge?):


...product of modernity, of the intersection between the desire to expel that which disturbs us (the burka debate going on across the Western world, along with the Swiss referendum on minarets, should stand as testament to the continued urge many still have to eradicate 'disturbances,' that is to say, 'foreign' cultural practices and other such non-'normal' elements of society) and modern business / bureaucracy / etc.

I'm asking since the concept is slippery as hell, and I'm not sure if it has any explanatory power.

[Tommy4ever]

That's a fucking gem right there.

It is because they don't have a totally undeniable amount of proof, the Holocaust has so much proof that you have to be an anti-semite to deny it.

Btw, some other Commies will disagree with me here, but the Holdomor never happened :laugh:

What?

[Nox]

What?

The Holdomor in the sense of a targeted attack against Ukrainians (as fascists/nazis/Ukrainian nationalists claim) never happened.

[Commissar Rykov]

Actually, the Holocaust could be said to have caused the deaths of many groups, not just the Jewish. Communists, homosexuals, Roma, Slavs, the mentally or physically disabled etc. Whilst the word itself is used to describe the mass murder of Jews, the concentration and death camps were populated by all of these groups.

As for the Holodomor, around a third of the urban Ukrainian population at the time was Jewish.
Don't forget Christians who didn't approve of the Nazi Regime, workers who didn't slave hard enough, people who pissed off their local Gestapo Chief, people who offended Hitler or a Senior Nazi in the past, people who weren't enthusiastically Pro-Nazi enough, etc. The Nazis killed shittons of people in the Holocaust for all kinds of flimsy and bizarre reasons that disturb me to this day.

[Viet Minh]

Denying the Holocaust against the sheer weight of evidence (allied and axis testimonies, survivor testimonies, mass graves, death camp records, memoirs, public records etc etc) is either a very stupid conspiracy theory (usually involving some Jewish plot) or done to deeply offend people who have survived the Holocaust or are related to victims, or just have the slightest compassion for humanity.

[Book O'Dead]

Is Holocaust Denial the same as defending Adolf Hitler National Socialism/Nazism/Racism and or Nazi Germany and the Nazis what Im asking is do people who deny the Holocaust want to defend Adolf Hitler and make him look like a good person in my opinion the answer is yes because most Holocaust Deniers are Neo Nazis and Racists and Anti Semites and hate all Jews does anyone agree with me I also want to say one more thing I understand why Neo Nazis and Racists and or White Supremacists and Fascists deny the Jewish Holocaust but why do some Muslims deny the Holocaust I don't get it because Muslims did not do that evil thing Nazi Germany did ?


I believe that Holocaust denial is an implicit defense of Hitler and Fascism.
Hitler and the Nazis were the first Holocaust deniers.
Hitler was the principal author of the Holocaust.
Any person that denies the Holocaust, be he Arab, Jew or Gentile is dangerously wrong and makes himself a potential victim and a willing instrument of terror.

[Book O'Dead]

Denying the Holocaust against the sheer weight of evidence (allied and axis testimonies, survivor testimonies, mass graves, death camp records, memoirs, public records etc etc) is either a very stupid conspiracy theory (usually involving some Jewish plot) or done to deeply offend people who have survived the Holocaust or are related to victims, or just have the slightest compassion for humanity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzY_3VcaM-Y

[Nox]

What?

Just thought I'd mention this, the only people who ever even use the word 'Holdomor' are Ukrainian Nationalists or Fascists in general.

[Rafiq]

The deaths in the socialist countries were almost never systematically carried out on purpose like the holocaust.

But I, as a profound critic of Stalinism and Maoism can easily say that the deaths are greatly over exaggerated and sometimes just blatantly made up.

[CHE with an AK]

It's understandable, in a way, considering the pressure Palestinians are under on a daily basis.
The best route for the Palestinians to take imo is actually to draw parallels between the Nazi policies and the Israeli subjugation of themselves.


http://cdn.muxlim.com/photos/2006/11/iLovePalestine/i-am-palestinian-cries-jewish-vicrtims-in-the-warsaw-ghettos__800xx.jpg




I'm interested why the great leap forward, cultural revolution, holdomor, armenian genocide etc. -denial isnt ilegal ? Is it becouse they don't include Jews ? hmm
Ha :rolleyes:

First, as for the GLF and Cultural Revolution's death tolls - Mao doubled the population of China from 550 million to over 900 million in 25 years. If for example, the Jewish population in Germany had doubled under Hitler then perhaps Holocaust denial would have more weight.

As for the so called "Holdomor" it is mostly right-wing anti-communist propaganda.

As for the Armenians, it was a genocidal policy, but then again Turkey was/is/has been carved out of war and violence by Turks against the Greeks (West) Armenians (North/East) and Kurds (South/East) in the same way that many modern nations were. But as long as U.S. troops are stationed at Incirlik, don't expect the U.S. to anger Turkey by even calling it a genocide. This has nothing to do with Jews however.




the only people who ever even use the word 'Holdomor' are Ukrainian Nationalists or Fascists in general.
They wanted a "fancy" holocaust-sounding name for their public outreach (propaganda) and figure that once something has a title, it is hard to deny it.

[CHE with an AK]

Now a viable criticism that I think could be made is that the Holocaust gets a disproportionate amount of attention and/or public grief/outcry in comparison to other more or just as deadly events such as the killing of 6 million + non-Jews by the Nazis, killing of Russians by the Nazis (10 + million), genocide of Indigenous Americans (15 million), the Trans-Atlantic slave trade (25 million), the current 3 decade war in the Congo (6 million) etc.

However, the problem is that this argument is usually co-opted or disingenuously used by fascist assholes - making an honest discussion difficult.

[tradeunionsupporter]

CHE with an AK (http://www.revleft.com/vb/holocaust-denial-same-p2208831/member.php?u=25354)
The best route for the Palestinians to take imo is actually to draw parallels between the Nazi policies and the Israeli subjugation of themselves.

I agree with your post 100%.

[Princess Luna]

Of course Holocaust denial is the same as defending Hitler and the Nazis, because you are saying that the most repulsive thing history says they did is actually a lie. that the definition of defending

[Tim Cornelis]

I'm interested why the great leap forward, cultural revolution ,holdomor , armenian genocide etc. -denial isnt ilegal ? Is it becouse they don't include Jews ? hmm

In Ukraine it's illegal to deny that the Holodomor was genocide. In Turkey it's illegal to say there was genocide. And China is far far away story, it does not concern us here in the West whilst the Holocaust happened here so logically here there is legalisation against it. Logically therefore, there is no legislation against holocaust denialism outside the West.

[Azula]

Yes it is.

As soon as a Holocaust revisionist is opening his stinking mouth, call him out as a Nazi (and if he doesn't stop, smash in his rotting teeth).

[Tim Cornelis]

Of course Holocaust denial is the same as defending Hitler and the Nazis, because you are saying that the most repulsive thing history says they did is actually a lie. that the definition of defending

My friend is a "Holocaust skeptic", he doesn't deny that Jews were persecuted for being Jewish, his argument is that the Nazis saw Jews as their enemies because they were allegedly communists (judeo-Bolshevism), therefore they locked them up in camps just like the Americans locked up all Japanese citizens in America. But since conditions were harsh and resources scarce many died in the camps. He's not defending Hitler and the nazis (if he lived in Nazi Germany he himself would be killed as a result of Action T4).

The world isn't always black and white.

[Azula]

My friend is a "Holocaust skeptic", he doesn't deny that Jews were persecuted for being Jewish, his argument is that the Nazis saw Jews as their enemies because they were allegedly communists (judeo-Bolshevism), therefore they locked them up in camps just like the Americans locked up all Japanese citizens in America. But since conditions were harsh and resources scarce many died in the camps. He's not defending Hitler and the nazis (if he lived in Nazi Germany he himself would be killed as a result of Action T4).

The world isn't always black and white.

They did not hate Jews because the Jews were Communists. They hated Communism because it was a "Jewish conspiracy".

Your friend should have his teeth smashed in.

[Tim Cornelis]

They did not hate Jews because the Jews were Communists. They hated Communism because it was a "Jewish conspiracy".

Your friend should have his teeth smashed in.

Yeah, but you're just a troll.

[Azula]

No, I am not a troll.

[#FF0000]

My friend is a "Holocaust skeptic", he doesn't deny that Jews were persecuted for being Jewish, his argument is that the Nazis saw Jews as their enemies because they were allegedly communists (judeo-Bolshevism), therefore they locked them up in camps just like the Americans locked up all Japanese citizens in America. But since conditions were harsh and resources scarce many died in the camps. He's not defending Hitler and the nazis (if he lived in Nazi Germany he himself would be killed as a result of Action T4).

The world isn't always black and white.

Your friend is really really dumb

[hatzel]

They did not hate Jews because the Jews were Communists. They hated Communism because it was a "Jewish conspiracy"

Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that was definitely the reason...hint: no...

[Azula]

Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that was definitely the reason...hint: no...

They actually believed in it. Otherwise, the killing of civilian Jewish women and children would not be deemed as necessary by the Reich.

[PassTheBeer]

They did not hate Jews because the Jews were Communists. They hated Communism because it was a "Jewish conspiracy".

Your friend should have his teeth smashed in.

Wow, you are a violent one.

[Tim Cornelis]

Your friend is really really dumb

In his defense he's not really political or historical. But that's another discussion entirely. Yes, the Holocaust happened, yes, it was a conscious plan to exterminate Jews. But being skeptical towards it does not equal defense of Nazism or Hitler.

Nor should it be illegal.


Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that was definitely the reason...hint: no...

Yeah they did: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism#Nazi_Germany

and bonus: http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR-Jewish-Bolshevism-Bolsheviks.html

JewWatch is probably the most idiotic website ever. "Zionist Leon Trotsky of the Zionist USSR", lol, whaaaat?


Your friend should have his teeth smashed in.

I don't attack people in wheelchairs.

[Azula]

If it is questioned, then people might start to believe it didn't happen.

Just look at the 33% of Americans who believe the Illuminati are behind the WTC attacks.

[#FF0000]

If it is questioned, then people might start to believe it didn't happen.

Actually it's probs way worse to stifle it if that's your concern. It's real easy to play the "WHY ARE THEY REPRESSING SKEPTICS WHAT ARE THEY HIDING?" card


Just look at the 33% of Americans who believe the Illuminati are behind the WTC attacks.

That cannot be real.

[Azula]

Actually it's probs way worse to stifle it if that's your concern. It's real easy to play the "WHY ARE THEY REPRESSING SKEPTICS WHAT ARE THEY HIDING?" card

Not really, it would send a powerful signal to the people what isn't acceptable.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Just look at the 33% of Americans who believe the Illuminati are behind the WTC attacks.

Source please? I can't believe it's that bad.

[Azula]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks_opinion_polls#United_States

I was wrong. It was 42%.

[#FF0000]

Not really, it would send a powerful signal to the people what isn't acceptable.

Nah that isn't how it works really. People are generally distrustful of power. When an outside actor like the state does something like that, they'll be like "woah what".

Of course I can see why places like Germany have the laws they do and why people might support them, considering the WW2 generation is still around.

[#FF0000]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks_opinion_polls#United_States

I was wrong. It was 42%.

It says 42% think there was a cover-up of some kind. That's kinda different from "They think the illuminati did it"

[Nox]

Illuminati? I thought it was the NWO... Or maybe the Freemasons? I know! Let's just blame it on the Jews!

(Mind of a Fascist)

[Apoi_Viitor]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks_opinion_polls#United_States

I was wrong. It was 42%.

I think you mean 4.5%...

[hatzel]

They actually believed in it. Otherwise, the killing of civilian Jewish women and children would not be deemed as necessary by the Reich.


Yeah they did: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism#Nazi_Germany

and bonus: http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR-Jewish-Bolshevism-Bolsheviks.html

JewWatch is probably the most idiotic website ever. "Zionist Leon Trotsky of the Zionist USSR", lol, whaaaat?

Lolzer. You two seriously cannot be that...ah...yeah...

Here's another hint: fascism and communism are "rival" ideologies. They're competing for the same "market," so to speak, but just so happen to be kind of the complete opposite of one another. Fascists have entirely legitimate reasons to oppose communism, from an entirely political perspective. Without any other justification.

Hint no. 3: "I hate commies and I also hate dzhooz so I'll just blame one on the other and also I hate them banks and ZOMG THIS IS WORKING OUT WELL FOR ME!!!"

I mean seriously...seriously?! You don't get this concept? You don't get how this whole thing works? Kind of like that whole Islamo-Marxist conspiracy idea Beck likes to chuck about...he doesn't hate Muslims for being Marxists, he hates them because he's a great big Islamophobe who therefore hates Muslims. And he doesn't hate Marxists for being Muslims, he hates Marxists because that's what the right does. But oh, look, suddenly they're merged together into some semi-coherent wailing fest, because that's how conspiracies work...

Oh, and going back a bit:


They actually believed in it. Otherwise, the killing of civilian Jewish women and children would not be deemed as necessary by the Reich.

You mean that guy who kept saying that "of all the tasks which we have to face, the noblest and most sacred for mankind is that each racial species must preserve the purity of the blood which God has given it," who spoke of "the importance of conserving the blood and the race free from intermixture," he was only really interested in killing women and children because they were potential commies? That's the reason? Nothing to do with the whole, you know, hardcore racism thing? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?!

:sleep:

[Azula]

You mean that guy who kept saying that "of all the tasks which we have to face, the noblest and most sacred for mankind is that each racial species must preserve the purity of the blood which God has given it," who spoke of "the importance of conserving the blood and the race free from intermixture," he was only really interested in killing women and children because they were potential commies? That's the reason? Nothing to do with the whole, you know, hardcore racism thing? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?!

Read again. I was writing just what you said.

The Holocaust was motivated by antisemitism and racism, not anti-communism.