Robotization of the workforce

[gendoikari]

Okay so yesterday the revolution was successful and today Honda just announced the development of a robotic worker that could do any manual labor job for a fraction of the cost of any other laboror. Including basic retail.

The question is, is this a good thing or a bad thing, and what happens now?

[S.Artesian]

Wait a minute, the revolution's successful, so who is this "Honda" you are talking about?

[Ocean Seal]

Okay so yesterday the revolution was successful and today Honda just announced the development of a robotic worker that could do any manual labor job for a fraction of the cost of any other laboror. Including basic retail.

The question is, is this a good thing or a bad thing, and what happens now?
If it happened now, its probably a bad thing. If it happened after we had achieved socialism for quite a while, it would be a good thing.

[Sensible Socialist]

In a capitalist society, an automated workforce equals, in most cases, working class people losing jobs. We cannot support this. However, in a society progressing past capitalism, I think we should all be for an automated workforce. There is no reason why people should have to perform manual labor they don't find fullfilling.

[gendoikari]

Wait a minute, the revolution's successful, so who is this "Honda" you are talking about?

the honda collective, I still think the collectives that rise out of the revolution will keep some names. at least japanese style ones that are big enough to be whole communes unto themselvs.

[Nox]

It will mean that we have to work less and have more leisure time.

In Capitalism that's a bad thing because you would have less money, in Communism/Socialism that's a good thing because you still get everything you need plus more.

[gendoikari]

It will mean that we have to work less and have more leisure time.

In Capitalism that's a bad thing because you would have less money, in Communism/Socialism that's a good thing because you still get everything you need plus more.

after complete robotization of the workforce I can imagine a society where only the jobs that people would do without getting paid would really be needed. Creative jobs like artist and musicians, inventors and engineers, and teachers.

In fact I can see a robotization of the workforce under capitalism giving rise to the proper conditions for socialism to naturally bloom. Cause companies are going to start using the cheaper robots. (like they currently are, which has given rise to some of our unemployment) to the point that so little of the population would be employed that we would have to either go full socialist, or accept an enormous welfare state which would be unsustainable economically.

[Sensible Socialist]

In fact I can see a robotization of the workforce under capitalism giving rise to the proper conditions for socialism to naturally bloom. Cause companies are going to start using the cheaper robots. (like they currently are, which has given rise to some of our unemployment) to the point that so little of the population would be employed that we would have to either go full socialist, or accept an enormous welfare state which would be unsustainable economically.
That isn't beneficial to the capitalist class. Higher unemployment means fewer people spending money on consumer goods, which lowers profit. There always needs to be a group of unemployed reserve labor in order to create a steady supply of willing workers, but if that number becomes too high the profits of the business will decline. There would never be a widespread robotization of the workforce unless there were enough jobs that could not be robotized which enabled enough of the population to be employed, as to keep capitalist profits at a rate they prefer.

[o well this is ok I guess]

In order to cope with the loss of jobs from the factories, jobs will be created out of anything anyone can think of.
And I'll never figure out how they're able to pay so many people to do almost nothing at all (on a 40 hour work week, no less).

[squarethecircle]

In fact I can see a robotization of the workforce under capitalism giving rise to the proper conditions for socialism to naturally bloom. Cause companies are going to start using the cheaper robots. (like they currently are, which has given rise to some of our unemployment) to the point that so little of the population would be employed that we would have to either go full socialist, or accept an enormous welfare state which would be unsustainable economically.

This is an entirely plausible statement. If we are to make a break away from using the capitalist system, technology and automation should be used to the fullest extent. I agree entirely when you say that socialism would be the only logical outcome for the displacement of workers. This would also be a win for the efficient development of future tech, since capitalism restricts its growth for the sake of profit. The effect would be near exponential and only solidify some form of socialism being used as tech would become better at doing the tasks we assign - leaving more and more human jobs obsolete.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

If the workers control the means of production, directly, then automisation simply means less work hours with no commensurate loss of pay; a robotised workforce will reflect in a lower equilibrium price for goods, since the exchange value will itself reflect the lower inputs into production, meaning any loss of income on the production side would be offset by lower prices for the same workers on the consumer side.

In effect, a robotised workforce in a Socialised economy would have a strong deflationary impact, something I view with positivity in a society where profit doesn't exist.

[ColonelCossack]

OK, I think various things will happen as a result of the automation of labour, an inevitable occurrence. It is inevitable because capitalists are always striving to find cheaper ways of producing- so, if they can find workers they don't even need to pay, that's their holy grail- even if they can't foresee the consequences made as a result of the workings of their own economic system.

Firstly, since variable capital (as opposed to constant capital) is required to produce surplus value, capitalists would cease to make any surplus value. So capitalism would collapse.

There would be huge unemployment as the entire proletariat would be laid off. No society can cope with that amount of redundancy- none that uses a currency, anyway. So capitalism would collapse.

Because of they huge numbers of unemployed the bourgeoisie would probably assume enormously more political power than even what it enjoys today. They would, therefore, impose extreme neo-liberal policies pretty quick, getting rid of any benefits etc. So capitalism would collapse.

No jobs -> No food -> huge riots & revolution. So capitalism would collapse.

No jobs -> No consumer economy. So capitalism would collapse.

Also, if the proletariat sees that robots are taking their jobs, their probably going to react much like very reactionary proles react to immigrants today- they wouldn't be happy, even without them losing their food. So capitalism would collapse.

In short, capitalism requires a human proletariat to function. Therefore, if that is made obsolete, capitalism would be rendered impossible- so we'd move onto the next link in the historically materialist chain, socialism, and then to the end of the chain- communism.

[S.Artesian]

OK, I think various things will happen as a result of the automation of labour, an inevitable occurrence. It is inevitable because capitalists are always striving to find cheaper ways of producing- so, if they can find workers they don't even need to pay, that's their holy grail- even if they can't foresee the consequences made as a result of the workings of their own economic system.

Firstly, since variable capital (as opposed to constant capital) is required to produce surplus value, capitalists would cease to make any surplus value. So capitalism would collapse.

There would be huge unemployment as the entire proletariat would be laid off. No society can cope with that amount of redundancy- none that uses a currency, anyway. So capitalism would collapse.

Because of they huge numbers of unemployed the bourgeoisie would probably assume enormously more political power than even what it enjoys today. They would, therefore, impose extreme neo-liberal policies pretty quick, getting rid of any benefits etc. So capitalism would collapse.

No jobs -> No food -> huge riots & revolution. So capitalism would collapse.

No jobs -> No consumer economy. So capitalism would collapse.

Also, if the proletariat sees that robots are taking their jobs, their probably going to react much like very reactionary proles react to immigrants today- they wouldn't be happy, even without them losing their food. So capitalism would collapse.

In short, capitalism requires a human proletariat to function. Therefore, if that is made obsolete, capitalism would be rendered impossible- so we'd move onto the next link in the historically materialist chain, socialism, and then to the end of the chain- communism.

Comrade, this is supposed to occur after a successful revolution.

Because of that-- all power to robotization-- no wage-labor, no surplus value, no production for exchange but for need.

[gendoikari]

Therefore, if that is made obsolete, capitalism would be rendered impossible- so we'd move onto the next link in the historically materialist chain, socialism, and then to the end of the chain- communism. If that were to happen I'm not even sure we'd hit the socialist stage, We might just transfer directly over to communism, and if we do hit a socialist stage it would be very short lived.

[La Comédie Noire]

Robodizidation is harmful for wage workers today, but in the long run it lays the grounds for a communist society.

[Thirsty Crow]

Robodizidation is harmful for wage workers today, but in the long run it lays the grounds for a communist society.
I have no clue whatsoever what you folks with "laying the grounds for a communist society" are talking about.
These grounds had been lain a long time ago.

[squarethecircle]

The length of time for this process will probably be entirely up to the proletariat.

Is automation viewed as good or bad? That will be the social question as the "pinch" is felt. Either there will be massive revolutions for tech, resulting in a faster change into communism, revolutions against, resulting in capitalism being held onto (one could make an example out of the current US nationalist campaign for "Buy American"...), or the status quo continues, and we merge into socialism, and ultimately communism, as human issues increase.

[La Comédie Noire]

I have no clue whatsoever what you folks with "laying the grounds for a communist society" are talking about.
These grounds had been lain a long time ago.

When do you think exactly the foundations for communism were laid?

[o well this is ok I guess]

When do you think exactly the foundations for communism were laid? I imagine that he means that the necessary technology to effectively eliminate our need for any large amount of participation in production has been around for quite some time.

[La Comédie Noire]

I imagine that he means that the necessary technology to effectively eliminate our need for any large amount of participation in production has been around for quite some time.

Oh, I know, but I want to know exactly when he thought that happened.

[Thirsty Crow]

When do you think exactly the foundations for communism were laid?
See the first quote in my sig.

[Nox]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_oboor_1KP5o/SiWCxCv96sI/AAAAAAAAAzc/1ZAhKt0bP9s/s400/n8ooei6ikkt0g2cgdshpv56so1-500.jpg