Would you consider northern european countries democratic socialist?

[Mac]

I've often heard people call places like Sweden socialist, but I've always called them capitalist. What do you call them?

[Misanthrope]

capitalist

[Caj]

Capitalist as the workers don't control the means of production.

[thesadmafioso]

Capitalist states with a slightly larger scope of coverage in their structures of social welfare, when taken in comparison to the norms of other capitalist states of similar stages of economic development.

[Weezer]

They have a king.

That's all that needs to be said.

[Scrounger]

We're as capitalist as the rest of the world. Though we had a socialdemocratic government for quite some time but they were dropped in 2006 for the liberalconservative Moderates. Since then the socialdemocratic opinion has dropped severely and is at its lowest since 1911.

The healthcare is decent and very cheap (there's usually a small fee attached) and you're eligible for free dental services up till the age of 18. Schooling is free (with the private alternative), you only have to purchase your own equipment at university level which you can take loans for.

But like the rest of the people in the thread have responded: The workers have never been in control of the means of production, and thus we've never been socialists. With the increasing support for liberal and conservative parties we'll probably be indistinguishable from the rest within a small matter of time.

[EDIT]:

To adress the topic, it's a common fallacy among the swedish nationalconservatives to call out "socialist", "communist", "culturemarxist" or "political correctness" every time someone opposes their views. They're more or less in direct opposition to all views with the current establishment and thus incorrectly label it "socialist" with no thought put behind was socialism actually means.

[RedAtheist]

They have private multinational corporations, run for profit. So yeah, they're capitalist.

I do however have a friend who seems to think Sweden is some kind of utopia (despite never actually having been there.)

I guess the more important question is not whether Sweden is socialist, but whether it represents the sort of world we would want to create. Since we've agreed that Sweden is capitalist, in what is it's capitalism harming it or preventing it from being the sort of country socialists want to create?

Could Sweden be any better if it became socialist? Or does it show that we need 'a mixture between capitalism and socialism'? (Whatever that means)

P.S. I'm not a social democrat or a reformist, just playing devil's advocate.:p

[Susurrus]

The most they could be considered is social-democratic.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

No. It's just the typical argument "they have great healthcare, government nationalized a few things, and 9/10 people are in a union, so they're socialists."
Profits still exist, and neoliberalism has been on the rise, along with a stagnating, bureaucratic union movement. On the other hand, the SAC has become increasingly militant (again) so that's good.

Anyway,
In Sweden, workers are given things. One of the main reasons for socialism is to become self-sufficient.

[Olentzero]

Sweden is most assuredly social-democratic; it provides a social safety net that other countries like the United States sorely lack. This is changing, however; as noted the center-right Moderate party has been in power for the better part of a decade now and they're accelerating cutbacks the Social-Democratic party started in the 1990s and lowering taxes for the rich. There's a lot of disaffection simmering beneath the surface.

Could Sweden be better if it were socialist? Hell yes. Does it represent the kind of world we want to live in? As it is now, no. There's a long way to go. It's a good object lesson, however, in that reforming capitalism ultimately doesn't work, because the reforms the capitalists of the 1930s granted are now being taken away by the capitalists of 2011. Revolutionary change is needed.

[Tim Cornelis]

Social capitalism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_capitalism

[Wubbaz]

I live in the neighbour of Sweden (Denmark) and we're just at capitalistic as the rest of the West. I guess we were just lucky with our unions being succesful in getting social reforms through. But please, we are by no means "socialist" - only guy who could think that would be Glenn Beck.

[Rss]

Finland is staunchly capitalist, no doubt about that. Victories of working class movement are viciously being cut off today, including all kinds of benefits and retirement funds. Hell, Stora Enso and Nokia lift Finland to the light-weight imperialist league. Here you often hear saying; "We are the most american country in Europe." Doesn't make me laugh anymore.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

It's a good object lesson, however, in that reforming capitalism ultimately doesn't work, because the reforms the capitalists of the 1930s granted are now being taken away by the capitalists of 2011. Revolutionary change is needed.
Always my argument against liberals. Whatever can be given to us can be taken from us.
Thus we must be self-sufficient.

[Die Rote Fahne]

It's called Social Democracy.

[RadioRaheem84]

European Social Democracy = Capitalist welfare state.

Concessions won by workers that have greatly impacted their standard of living for the better.

They can be taken away, which means workers are not in control. So in sum, the nations are still capitalist.

[Veovis]

Definitely capitalist. Their form of capitalism may be a bit more "social" than the U.S. model, but that doesn't make them socialist.

[DarkPast]

Though we had a socialdemocratic government for quite some time but they were dropped in 2006 for the liberalconservative Moderates. Since then the socialdemocratic opinion has dropped severely and is at its lowest since 1911.

Any idea why the SD's popularity dropped so suddenly?

[Olentzero]

Back in the 1980s and 1990s they pretty much adopted the capitalist attitude that cutbacks were necessary and started getting very iffy on the question of immigration. Basically they started swinging to the right, which disillusioned the more progressive and radical elements among their membership. After the September 2010 election all three parties in the centre-left Red/Green bloc have undergone a leadership crisis; the Left Party (Vänsterpartiet) has just announced its leader is going to step down and some five or six high-ranking politicians are gunning for the job. The Social Democrats went into crisis sometime this spring and they got a fairly moderate leader (Håkan Juholt); the Green Party had a shuffle in May but I didn't follow it that closely. In short, all three are trying to figure out how to relate to the electorate, and there are a lot of people with very pessimistic outlooks at the top. I don't expect they're going to be able to rally people round their parties anytime soon, which makes more radical organizing not only a possibility but a necessity.

[Scrounger]

Any idea why the SD's popularity dropped so suddenly?

Probably because of high unemployment, taxes and dismay over people living on welfare.

[Kornilios Sunshine]

Not at all. The whole Europe and countries in the EU are capitalist and exploit the workers.