Trotskism

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

What do you all think of Trotskiest doctrine and its various flaws/strengths? Personally I prefer Maoism, but I like Trotsky's internationalist attitude.

[Urban Rubble]

I also enjoy Trotsky's ideas on world revolution, but that is about it. His theories of "militarization of labor" are downright scary.

[crazy comie]

i think trosky rules
Although i don't like his militarisation of labour ideas but i think he only intended them for mondernising the u.s.s.r during the 20s.
oh and acttually stalin had millitarised labour during the 5 year plans (i hate stalin).

[Scottish_Militant]

Trotsky was a genius, remember his internationalist attitude was shared by Lenin, Marx and Engels, despite Stalinist slandering

[crazy comie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2003, 01:11 PM
Trotsky was a genius, remember his internationalist attitude was shared by Lenin, Marx and Engels, despite Stalinist slandering
oh so true

[Cassius Clay]

Yeah Lenin sure was a evil 'Stalinist' who 'slandered' Trotsky.

Among other things Trotskyism is a reactionary, rascist ideology which accomplishes nothing except a policy of lying to people, most of all the workers. It's a disgusting dogma which will die out when the Capitalists no longer need it.

Dont take my word for it though, just ask Lenin.

[Scottish_Militant]

Couldnt expect anything else from CC, a man who's tounge is lodged so far up Stalins ass we cant tell where he ends and Stalin begins ;)

Anyhow, seeing as i'm now 'racist' I better go and look for some black people to kill. See y'all later

[Cassius Clay]

I haven't called you a 'rascist', most Trots haven't got a clue why they follow Trotsky. There taught that Trotsky was the brave fighter and 'victim of Stalinist beuracracy' etc in their school books.

I dont have my tongue up Stalin's arse, atleast no more than Marx, Engels, Lenin and Hoxha's arses. Frankly I'm not that way inclined. I'll be the first to criticise Stalin where he made mistakes. Since however Stalin himself admitted where he went wrong there's little point.

Trots routinly criticise Stalin because he was 'Asiatic', from a society of 'blood feuds' as if this somehow matters. Issac Deutcher the Trot describes 'Russian savages' in his pro-Trotsky book 'The prophet armed'.

That's why I conclude that Trotskyism is a rascist ideology. That and the fact that Trots are still today saying the Russian and other peoples of USSR 'were to backward' to build Socialism. This also makes Trotskyism a dogma.

Answer this 'Communist' Revolutionary.

Did the Soviet workers need the 'help' and 'aid' of the German or British workers to build Socialism? Was it impossible for the workers to build Socialism in alliance with the peasants?

Yes or no simple as that.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Cassius [email protected] 21 2003, 05:22 PM
Yeah Lenin sure was a evil 'Stalinist' who 'slandered' Trotsky.

Among other things Trotskyism is a reactionary, rascist ideology which accomplishes nothing except a policy of lying to people, most of all the workers. It's a disgusting dogma which will die out when the Capitalists no longer need it.

Dont take my word for it though, just ask Lenin.
To be fair Rob, practically the whole world says that about your ideology...

But I have played this game with you way, way, way to many times to be caught in this argument again.

[Scottish_Militant]

Yes, its a case of 'here we go again'

very brief points, socialism is international, socialism was not built in the USSR, Deutcher was a tosser, I never studied Russia in school....

Oh, and you are boring <_<

[ernestolynch]

Trotskyism is just angry liberalism. Scratch a Trot and you&#39;ll get a Fascist.

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

I would hardly consider Trotsky racist, nor Stalin for that matter. I would consider attacks on each other as fascist to be utter garbage. Really, if Trotsky was so much of a racist, then why was he so pro-internationalism as compared to Stalin&#39;s state socialism? Also why would he not flee to Nazi Germany after his exile, but instead go to Mexico and cultivate revolution there? It makes no sence to try to argue Stalinism vs. Trotskyism. Regardless weather one was racist or not, we Communists know damn well that we aren&#39;t. There is no need to bring either person&#39;s personal life into the arguement. For all I care Trotsky and Stalin could be 6 year old prostitutes. Their personal lives are no contribution towards their doctrine. In fact, the only agruement here is global revolution and militant labor vs. State socialism. Beyond that, there is no arguement, so stop trying to prove us fascists and racists, it will get us both nowhere.

[Urban Rubble]

It never ceases to amaze me how blind people can be on both sides of this issue. The Trots say Trotsky was a genius who did no wrong, the Stalinists say the same of Stalin.

Get over it guys, find some fucking common ground. The reality is this : Both men were geniuses, though both were flawed. Trot had his flaws, he was power hungry, VERY vain and also very uncaring. Stalin was somewhat power hungry (though I believe less than Trot) he was overly strict, he was VERY paranoid and with few exceptions, he was rude and uncaring to the average aquaintance.

Get over this shit guys, it&#39;s 2003. This debate should have died a few years after Stalin did. Both of them had great ideas, both of them made mistakes. Take the good and toss the bad.

Oh ya, one more thing. The only reason most Trots are so into the guy is because he never got a chance to live his dream and rule the Soviet Union. Had he got the chance, I believe it wouldn&#39;t have been all that different than Stalin. I actually think he would&#39;ve done worse.

[crazy comie]

Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 22 2003, 04:00 AM


Oh ya, one more thing. The only reason most Trots are so into the guy is because he never got a chance to live his dream and rule the Soviet Union. Had he got the chance, I believe it wouldn&#39;t have been all that different than Stalin. I actually think he would&#39;ve done worse.
i doudt that very much

[redstar2000]

Stalin vs. Trotsky threads usually resemble a group of angry museum curators throwing old bones at each other.

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

[kylie]

Originally posted by Cassius [email protected] 21 2003, 06:22 PM
I haven&#39;t called you a &#39;rascist&#39;, most Trots haven&#39;t got a clue why they follow Trotsky. There taught that Trotsky was the brave fighter and &#39;victim of Stalinist beuracracy&#39; etc in their school books.

Trots routinly criticise Stalin because he was &#39;Asiatic&#39;, from a society of &#39;blood feuds&#39; as if this somehow matters. Issac Deutcher the Trot describes &#39;Russian savages&#39; in his pro-Trotsky book &#39;The prophet armed&#39;.

That&#39;s why I conclude that Trotskyism is a rascist ideology. That and the fact that Trots are still today saying the Russian and other peoples of USSR &#39;were to backward&#39; to build Socialism. This also makes Trotskyism a dogma.
You are quick to complain that Stalinism is misrepresented and lied about, then you post things like this, which are just as far away from Trotskyism as claims that we all eat babies.

There taught that Trotsky was the brave fighter and &#39;victim of Stalinist beuracracy&#39; etc in their school books.
Trotsky was a Marxist. I doubt in any country he is portrayed as a &#39;brave fighter&#39;, remember this is capitalism we are in. From what i remember, the only time Russian history was covered in high school was when doing something about the vietnam war, and then it was very basic, i can&#39;t even remember Trotsky being mentioned. It&#39;s unecessary to show that theres differences inside Marxism - that makes it almost look like its a serious subject.

Trots routinly criticise Stalin because he was &#39;Asiatic&#39;, from a society of &#39;blood feuds&#39; as if this somehow matters.
I&#39;ve never once read anything criticising Stalin because of his ethnicity, from any organisation.

That and the fact that Trots are still today saying the Russian and other peoples of USSR &#39;were to backward&#39; to build Socialism.
Yeah, that really fits with supporting Russia 1917-24 :rolleyes:

[crazy comie]

most capitalist just say trotskys a nuter and stalin is a baby eater.
when of course in reallity trotsky rules :P