SlutWalk

[Skammunist]

If you guys aren't aware of SlutWalk, it's a series of feminist marches that started when a cop in Toronto asserted that "women should avoid dressing like sluts" in order to prevent rape. The remark was made earlier this year, in January, and the marches are against the ridiculous notion that the way women dress cause them to be raped. Whether one believes this or not is another issue altogether. The reason I post this is because there is a huge march coming next month where I live. While I agree with them for the most part, I don't know about the name, "SlutWalk". What do you guys think about this?

Here is the link for the march coming up:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/event.php?eid=142637125811894

And here is more info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SlutWalk

http://www.slutwalktoronto.com/

Is the way they parade around the world slut a problem, or simply a case of trying to take back a label, such as is the case with gay activists reclaiming the word "queer"?

[Susurrus]

The latter.

[Blackburn]

There was a thread on this a while back.

[gendoikari]

Irreguardless of whether the way a woman dresses is a factor in them being singled out for rape, shouldn't 100% of the blame still be put on the one that made the conscious decision to commit the crime in the first place?

[Skammunist]

Absolutely. That is the case that the organizers of SlutWalk are trying to make.

[gendoikari]

Oh and then there's the fact that most rapes aren't the stereotypical alleyway gangbang, or daterape. It's mostly parties and alcohol, done by people you know.

[Binh]

100% support this, the name notwithstanding. The point of adopting the word "slut" is to stand in solidarity with those who are labelled as such by the media/ruling class which continually blames the victims of sexual assault.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

I went to Milwaukee's slut walk although I missed the walking part of the walk but made it to the end rally with my man and my cousin. It was too early in the day for me and my cousin to make the first part.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I went to the San Francisco one and, frankly, it seemed like there really are two different sides to the people who were there. There was a more militant aspect who saw this as a way to try and rebuild some grassroots anti-sexism fightback, but then there was a "sex-positive" shop owner who gave a speech and said that there'd be less rape if men masturbated more. A little self-serving for a sex-shop owner to argue... and also just a silly argument IMO.

I think someone who gave a speech said something about "taking-back" "slut" but I don't know how much currancy that really holds because even people who dressed up and had "slut" written on them, when I spoke with them, they were clear about their outfit and use of the word as a protest against those "she asked for it" attitudes rather than the promotion of "slut" as a reclaimed word.

But I think without a really any anti-sexist movement in the last 20+ years of increasing retreat on some basic pillars of the women's lib movement, there's going to be a sort of mixed sense of how to challenge sexism initially. Most of what the protesters said and what the people from the front of the march said was really good though. People also made connections with how black and latino victims of police brutality are blamed for their own attack because they dress "too street" or "look like a gang member".

All in all it's great to see a return to anti-sexist protests to the streets though.

[Skammunist]

Jimmie, based on what you saw when you went, was there any sort of socialist presence at all? I was thinking of bringing my red flag.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Jimmie, based on what you saw when you went, was there any sort of socialist presence at all? I was thinking of bringing my red flag.I was there:lol:. Hell yeah, bring your flag.

In San Francisco ISO and I think Socialist Action were involved in some of the organizing (though I wasn't personally) and there were other socialist and anarchist groups and individuals who showed up and sold papers or handed out fliers. But the coalition was initiated by non-socialists as far as I know.

I would have like to have seen more turn-out from other activist though - no presence from the big liberal women's rights or LGBT rights orgs as far as I could tell but we marched up to the Castro and had a lot of encouragement and support from people walking along the street.

Anecdotal it seems like people are more willing to make the connections between various struggles against oppression than in the past - it hasn't really gone too much beyond passive support and rhetoric, but I see no reason that LGBT and anti-police brutality groups couldn't be won over to these actions and visa-versa. In some ways the ruling class attacks are making the connections more obvious than they've been in a long time - then again austerity is also making groups in society fight against each-other more. So I don't know what the hell I'm saying really - it's a quarter to 3 am :p

[Binh]

I went to the San Francisco one and, frankly, it seemed like there really are two different sides to the people who were there. There was a more militant aspect who saw this as a way to try and rebuild some grassroots anti-sexism fightback, but then there was a "sex-positive" shop owner who gave a speech and said that there'd be less rape if men masturbated more. A little self-serving for a sex-shop owner to argue... and also just a silly argument IMO.

You have to understand that many of these people see the religious right as enemy #1 around these issues and they are reacting to the stultifying, puritanical moralistic garbage that comes from the top. Another thing to keep in mind is that within the feminist movement there are "radical feminists" who equate heterosexual sex with rape (I kid you not).

[Sugarnotch]

Another thing to keep in mind is that within the feminist movement there are "radical feminists" who equate heterosexual sex with rape (I kid you not).

Bullshit.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Bullshit.As the movements of the 1970s began to decline, there were people who argued that, but I think even then they were pretty marginal.

But I'm not really sure what Bihn's point was at all. Generally the fringes of first-wave feminism are harped on by the right in their attempt to prove an evil "homosexual agenda" or that women's lib is anti-male rather than anti-sexism. The religion comment seems to come from nowhere too.

[Meridian]

Irreguardless of whether the way a woman dresses is a factor in them being singled out for rape, shouldn't 100% of the blame still be put on the one that made the conscious decision to commit the crime in the first place?

Yes.

But would this have been an issue if the police made a statement that people should be careful about drinking too much or else they're more likely to get robbed? They are probably using statistics to make cautionary statements, though ill-advised ones, especially where it seems blame is shifted.

[manic expression]

As the movements of the 1970s began to decline, there were people who argued that, but I think even then they were pretty marginal.
From what I can tell, just about every grouping in feminism could be called "pretty marginal". Trying to make a point about feminism is like trying to eat soup with a knife...one can say "yeah well not every feminist is like that" after literally every statement.

But it's pretty plain that a lot of what comes from radical feminists is a bunch of nonsense. Saying "rape wouldn't happen if men masturbated more" is a good example. The pure idiocy of saying "do this with your body or you're bad!" at an event like that is stunning (and the truth is that because it's directed towards hetero men, it gets a free pass). That's why I've written off feminism, and I doubt I'm alone in that.

But yeah, even though I have reservations about the whole slutwalk thing, at the end of the day I think it's cool that anti-sexist activists are out and vocal.

[Binh]

Bullshit.

Some quotes from Andrea Dworkin, a radical feminist:

"A commitment to sexual equality with males is a commitment to becoming the rich instead of the poor, the rapist instead of the raped, the murderer instead of the murdered."

"No woman needs intercourse; few women escape it."

"Seduction is often difficult to distinguish from rape. In seduction, the rapist often bothers to buy a bottle of wine. "

"Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women's bodies."

Such nonsense was not marginal. This kind of thinking underpinned the feminist movement's central explanation of the source of women's oppression: patriarchy.

During the 1980s, Dworkin and her co-thinkers formed a bloc with the Religious Right and the Republican Party to campaign against pornography.