FIST launches in Detroit

[Imposter Marxist]

The founding meeting of the new Detroit chapter of Fight Imperialism, Stand Together — FIST — was held on July 22.

Detroit has not had an active branch of the militant youth organization for about a year. But since late 2010, new youth have begun taking an interest in activism and have gravitated to work with the Michigan Emergency Committee Against War & Injustice, the Moratorium NOW! Coalition to Stop Foreclosures, Evictions & Utility Shutoffs, and Workers World Party.

Some of these youth moved to form a new FIST branch in Detroit in order to combat the effects of imperialism at home and abroad. The attendance was excellent at the initial meeting and the discussions were meaningful. Introductions were conducted, and the revolutionary program of FIST was introduced and reviewed.

Detroit FIST is honored to be given its own office by Workers World Party, which has entrusted the upper floor of its building to the youth activists. They are currently organizing and renovating the space for organizational meetings, classes, social activities, cultural events, game nights, projects and more. From here the group will plan for activist work ranging from anti-war demonstrations to fighting against the capitalist crisis at home by combating home foreclosures and cuts to public services.

The group invites all youth activists in Detroit interested in taking part in the anti-imperialist, pro-working-class struggle to join us. Detroit FIST is eagerly seeking new members and can be contacted at 586-744-2797 or 779-423-4545.

[Nuvem]

^My article, published in Workers World newspaper.

[RED DAVE]

The founding meeting of the new Detroit chapter of Fight Imperialism, Stand Together — FIST — was held on July 22.

Detroit has not had an active branch of the militant youth organization for about a year. But since late 2010, new youth have begun taking an interest in activism and have gravitated to work with the Michigan Emergency Committee Against War & Injustice, the Moratorium NOW! Coalition to Stop Foreclosures, Evictions & Utility Shutoffs, and Workers World Party.

Some of these youth moved to form a new FIST branch in Detroit in order to combat the effects of imperialism at home and abroad. The attendance was excellent at the initial meeting and the discussions were meaningful. Introductions were conducted, and the revolutionary program of FIST was introduced and reviewed.

Detroit FIST is honored to be given its own office by Workers World Party, which has entrusted the upper floor of its building to the youth activists. They are currently organizing and renovating the space for organizational meetings, classes, social activities, cultural events, game nights, projects and more. From here the group will plan for activist work ranging from anti-war demonstrations to fighting against the capitalist crisis at home by combating home foreclosures and cuts to public services.

The group invites all youth activists in Detroit interested in taking part in the anti-imperialist, pro-working-class struggle to join us. Detroit FIST is eagerly seeking new members and can be contacted at 586-744-2797 or 779-423-4545.Why oh why does this have to sound like Third-Period Stalinism? I mean haven't you updated your rhetoric in the past 70 years?

RED DAVE

[manic expression]

Best of luck with these efforts, comrades. A stronger revolutionary presence in that area would be an excellent development.

[Q]

Why oh why does this have to sound like Third-Period Stalinism? I mean haven't you updated your rhetoric in the past 70 years?

RED DAVE

What formulations are you referring to specifically?

OP: Good luck building up work in Detroit. Are you willing to work with other comrades and groups or is this a WWP-only party?

[tracher999]

nice keep going

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Are you willing to work with other comrades and groups or is this a WWP-only party?

FIST is one of many WWP fronts.

[Leftsolidarity]

Why oh why does this have to sound like Third-Period Stalinism? I mean haven't you updated your rhetoric in the past 70 years?

RED DAVE

Yes, damn you for using those damn Stalinist words!

[Imposter Marxist]

FIST is one of many WWP fronts.


A 'front' ? I'm not sure what you're refering to.

@Q, yes, FIST is not a WWP party only organization. We intend to work with all types of socialists, communists, even anarchists. If you have anyone in the area who needs a group to do some work with, let them know! We're always seeking more.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

A 'front' ? I'm not sure what you're refering to. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_front

Note: "Communist" here refers to the official name of the party. It has as little to do with the communism described in The Communist Manifesto as the WWP has with to do with the fight for the self-liberation of the working class.

[Imposter Marxist]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_front

Note: "Communist" here refers to the official name of the party. It has as little to do with the communism described in The Communist Manifesto as the WWP has with to do with the fight for the self-liberation of the working class.


Lol. :rolleyes:

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

What's so funny?

Is it the Marcyite love affair with every tin pot dictator that comes in conflict with the United States? Or the Marcyite support for any bourgeois or petty-bourgeois political opposition, from Jesse Jackson to Cynthia McKinney to Charles Barron? Or the Marcyite hailing of the heads of bourgeois states who ride into office with some level of popular support, from Evo Morales to Barrack Obama?

None of that is comedy. It's tragedy.

[black magick hustla]

FIST is one of many WWP fronts.

all the groups listed in the op are wwp fronts btw. the wwp is "big" in detroit

[Imposter Marxist]

Strawmen arguments, huh? It's not very effective... :cool:

Maybe your youth group will be better, comrade, that will show us!

[manic expression]

Maybe your youth group will be better, comrade, that will show us!
:lol: Yeah, that'd be the day.

[Leftsolidarity]

You loser stop actually doing stuff! You silly Stalinists. You probably actually want to ACT on your beliefs instead of just insulting everyone else who trys to do anything...:rolleyes:

[Nuvem]

What's so funny?

Is it the Marcyite love affair with every tin pot dictator that comes in conflict with the United States? Or the Marcyite support for any bourgeois or petty-bourgeois political opposition, from Jesse Jackson to Cynthia McKinney to Charles Barron? Or the Marcyite hailing of the heads of bourgeois states who ride into office with some level of popular support, from Evo Morales to Barrack Obama?

None of that is comedy. It's tragedy.

You don't even have any idea what you're talking about, do you? You just say words and hope they come out to mean something. "Marcyites" and "Marcyism" don't exist. He just happened to be the founder of our party and wrote some good material. The WWP doesn't support Obama, the FRSO are the ones who supported him in the election. There's no such thing as a dictator, only dictatorships of one class over another. We simply hold an anti-Imperialist line. We aren't "Saddamists" or uncritical supporters of Gaddafi, we simply don't support their nations being invaded and millions of people being killed in Imperialist wars, nor do we support neo-colonial expansion. We support individual bourgeois politicians for the purpose of seeing through specific goals through our mass organization, for example, we support Michigan State Senator John Conyers only insofar as he has introduced a bill for a moratorium on home foreclosures, one of our main goals in Detroit. We don't support them in all spheres, uncritically or in the context of a revolutionary situation.


all the groups listed in the op are wwp fronts btw. the wwp is "big" in detroit
Ever heard of a mass organization? It's when you create organizations with topical goals in mind such as organizing anti-war actions (MECAWI) or ending home foreclosures (Moratorium NOW!) in order to draw in activists from a broader political spectrum AND so as not to be ultra-left and alienate common people by coming out as an overtly socialist organization in a setting or period where that may not be appropriate.

And finally, the golden boy that kicked it off:

Why oh why does this have to sound like Third-Period Stalinism? I mean haven't you updated your rhetoric in the past 70 years?

Well, when I wrote this article, I certainly didn't intend for it to be "Stalinist" rhetoric. In fact, it's really not even heavily political. It was more meant to be informative and to make people aware that we re-formed our youth organization and were looking for more active participants. This isn't a speech about the Five Year Plans or the heroic victory of the USSR over the Third Reich or some masturbatory praise of some leader or party or anything like that, it's just a 300-some word stub for Workers World newspaper to let people know we got FIST jump-started again. Is it really necessary to call EVERYTHING that is associated with the WWP "Stalinist" or a "front"? If by "Stalinist" you mean it in the correct sense, meaning that I support Stalinist economic planning for building socialism, then yes, I am a "Stalinist", though I don't believe that Stalinist planning is necessary in developed countries because of already-developed industry and because technology has advanced to a point that planning can be done in real time rather than in the long-term. If you mean it in the way I THINK you mean it, then you are severely mistaken and it's quite funny that you read this mostly apolitical article and had to have a sectarian shitfit about it.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

"Marcyites" and "Marcyism" don't exist.Sure it does, as a particularly unsavory branch of petty-bourgeois socialism in the United States. It has it's foundations in Marcy and his clique's departure from the SWP over their refusal to support the counter-revolutionary intervention of the USSR in Hungary in 1956, and has gone on to distinguish itself from there with the absurdity of "Global Class War" theory, which attempts to tie workers to every bourgeois and petty-bourgeois force in the world which comes into conflict with the U.S. or Western Europe.


We simply hold an anti-Imperialist line.Imperialism is an aspect of global capitalism. Fighting imperialism means fighting capitalism. It's not a game of good guys and bad guys where you pick a horse in every bourgeois showdown.


We aren't "Saddamists" or uncritical supporters of Gaddafi, we simply don't support their nations being invaded and millions of people being killed in Imperialist wars, nor do we support neo-colonial expansion. There's a big difference between opposing intervention and calling for workers to get slaughtered on the front lines in defense of "their homelands" or "their bourgeoisie."


The WWP doesn't support ObamaI wrote: "hailing of the heads of bourgeois states who ride into office with some level of popular support, from Evo Morales to Barrack Obama"

Teresa Gutierrez wrote: “As communists and revolutionaries we take joy with the oppressed and other progressives as they gather in jubilation from Harlem to Colombia to Japan to Kenya with the election of Obama …. Our love of the oppressed masses—like our solidarity with the working class—extends even when it involves the presidency of the strongest imperialist country ever.” (Workers World, November 20, 2008)

Berta Joubert-Ceci wrote: “The indigenous peoples of Bolivia, dispossessed and poor, proudly attained the nation’s presidency for the first time ever on Dec. 18. After more than a century of their social and economic exclusion by U.S. transnational corporations, in cahoots with the country’s oligarchy, Evo Morales of the Movement Towards Socialism (MAS) was elected president.” (Workers World, December 24, 2005)


We support individual bourgeois politiciansI know you do. And your excuses for doing so are as pathetic as they are meaningless.

The independence of the working class has been a principle of the proletariat since the days of First International and earlier.

Meanwhile petty-bourgeois and bourgeois groups have been tying to tie the working class to it's exploiters and oppressors by all sorts of means.


Is it really necessary to call EVERYTHING that is associated with the WWP "Stalinist" or a "front"?

It's necessary to call things what they are. There are some people that are far enough away or naive enough to believe that outfits like FIST are something other than front groups for your sect.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

You loser stop actually doing stuff! You silly Stalinists. You probably actually want to ACT on your beliefs instead of just insulting everyone else who trys to do anything...:rolleyes:

What does it mean to "do stuff?" Everyone in existence "does stuff" every day. The question is what "stuff" you are doing, and what effect it will have.

[manic expression]

What does it mean to "do stuff?" Everyone in existence "does stuff" every day. The question is what "stuff" you are doing, and what effect it will have.
"Stuff" = political activity, reaching workers, building organizations

You know, what you failed at. :laugh:

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Sorry, I'm not interested in playing "who has the most signs, the most front organizations or the most bourgeois politicians at their cross-class rallies" with you. Why don't you just write "The PSL is the fastest growing organization in the United States!!!!1!!!" in your sig about 9 or 10 times instead. :thumbup1:

[manic expression]

Sorry, I'm not interested in playing
No, you're not interested in political activity because YOU FAILED AT IT. :laugh: Anyone seen NHIA's fabled "FPM" do anything lately? Me neither. :lol:

So have fun with your version of "being a communist": sitting on your couch, eating doritos and badmouthing revolutionaries.

[o well this is ok I guess]

Why oh why does this have to sound like Third-Period Stalinism? I mean haven't you updated your rhetoric in the past 70 years?

RED DAVE Stalinists don't have game night, man.

[Rusty Shackleford]

i have to say, its interesting catching leftcom/trot flak in every thread that has to do with some organizational development with the PSL or the WWP.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

It's sort of like how warnings about malaria show up in areas with Anopheles gambiae and Anopheles funestus mosquitos.

[Rusty Shackleford]

witty

[manic expression]

It's sort of like how warnings about malaria show up in areas with Anopheles gambiae and Anopheles funestus mosquitos.
No, it's more like active revolutionaries get criticized by windbags who couldn't organize a trip to the grocery store.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

That's where you're wrong. I just organized a trip to the grocery store today. And it contributed about as much toward the overthrow of capitalism as the recent resurrection of the WWP's youth front in Detroit did. :thumbup1:

[khlib]

I live in Detroit and am interested, but I'm 23. How old are most people in this group?

[Imposter Marxist]

I live in Detroit and am interested, but I'm 23. How old are most people in this group?


Youngest I believe is 16, oldest is 20, in our branch at least. You'd be a fine fit, don't worry. I'll PM you with more info.

[Red And Black Sabot]

in order to draw in activists from a broader political spectrum AND so as not to be ultra-left and alienate common people by coming out as an overtly socialist organization in a setting or period where that may not be appropriate.

and what part of that isn't sketch?

[Leftsolidarity]

and what part of that isn't sketch?

The whole thing. You don't need to put a hammer&sickle to everything and constantly preach about socialism. You can do things that further the cause without saying "by the way this is for socialism". Some people agree with the realities of socialism while being scared away from the word.

[Jose Gracchus]

Sorry, I'm not interested in playing "who has the most signs, the most front organizations or the most bourgeois politicians at their cross-class rallies" with you. Why don't you just write "The PSL is the fastest growing organization in the United States!!!!1!!!" in your sig about 9 or 10 times instead. :thumbup1:

You have to excuse Marcyites, they have a similar conceptualization of "accomplishing things" to Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. Every self-oblating ritual for the glory of the sect and every act of selfless evangelism puts you closer to the Kingdom of Heaven socialism anti-imperialism.

Also, why is there a separate FRSO Fight Back, Workers' World Party, and Party of Socialism and Liberation? I don't think there's a shred of political distinction among them, and certainly not in their manners and hysteria.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Also, why is there a separate FRSO Fight Back, Workers' World Party, and Party of Socialism and Liberation? I don't think there's a shred of political distinction among them, and certainly not in their manners and hysteria.

The same reason there's a Starbucks, Caribou Coffee and Seattle's Best.

[manic expression]

That's where you're wrong. I just organized a trip to the grocery store today. And it contributed about as much toward the overthrow of capitalism as the recent resurrection of the WWP's youth front in Detroit did. :thumbup1:
Great, you bought more doritos. But if you aren't so worthless at organization, why did you so spectacularly fail with your "FPM" (that "M" is supposed to stand for "movement" :laugh:)? Why did you decide that being a communist isn't worth it right after your piddling efforts came to nothing?

The reason is because you failed at being a communist. It must hurt watching others succeed where you fell flat on your face...hence the idiotic bitterness we've been seeing from you. :lol:


You have to excuse Marcyites, they have a similar conceptualization of "accomplishing things" to Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses.
The revolutionary conceptualization of accomplishing things is reaching workers and building an organization. Your conceptualization of accomplishing things is reluctantly going to a few SDS meetings and holding up some Obama signs.

[RED DAVE]

The revolutionary conceptualization of accomplishing things is reaching workers and building an organization.I have been watching the Marcyites for about 50 years. I have never seen them reach out to workers and build and organization. I have seen them build some very bureaucratic peace organizations, but this has little to do with organizing workers.

RED DAVE

[Jose Gracchus]

The revolutionary conceptualization of accomplishing things is reaching workers and building an organization. Your conceptualization of accomplishing things is reluctantly going to a few SDS meetings and holding up some Obama signs.

How many workers has PSL reached, eh?

And as for your personal dig, I never supported Obama after 2009, since back then, I wasn't a communist. But hey, isn't the entire OP about a mass organization where you would apparently welcome people who are still doing the same things you disparage me for purportedly doing? Do you have to be a communist for a decade before joining? How's PSL's efforts side-by-side Democratic politicians going?

You're such a hypocrite its coming out of your ears. I wonder when you're off going door-to-door demo-to-demo with your literature, you spew the same bile about Democratic supporters in your own mass orgs? Or is it just something you save up to opportunistically pull out to cover your ass in a discussion?

[Leftsolidarity]

This thread has become all about "I'm such a better communist than you!". Fuck, lay off the WWP and its 'fronts' :rolleyes: if you aren't going to do anything yourself.

[Jose Gracchus]

Bullshit, there's numerous concrete criticisms of the Marcyites in this thread, from their thorough commitment to cross-class fronts, reformism, and alliances-of-convenience with bourgeois politicians. I'm so tired of seeing "KOOBAYAH" posts on this forum, where critical discussions between tendencies is the order of the day on this forum.

Maybe people wouldn't despise Marcyites if they had an ounce of political principle and did not conduct themselves in the manner of a religious group or multi-level marketing scam, and worse yet, attempt to disparage everyone else as not a real communist since they do not have enough dead-end peace marches which have not made an ounce of progress toward class struggle for fucking decades. Worse yet, should workers be drawn in among them, they would be in fact diverted from class struggle and confrontation with the state, in favor of purely symbolic "political" activities.

But hey, its the thought/effort/protest sign that counts, right?

[NoOneIsIllegal]

This is getting ridiculous. Trash this.

[black magick hustla]

Ever heard of a mass organization? It's when you create organizations with topical goals in mind such as organizing anti-war actions (MECAWI) or ending home foreclosures (Moratorium NOW!) in order to draw in activists from a broader political spectrum AND so as not to be ultra-left and alienate common people by coming out as an overtly socialist organization in a setting or period where that may not be appropriate.



first i didn't criticize, i merely pointed out that those groups are wwp fronts, which is true.

second, those are not mass organizations. a mass organization is the KKE. i would be surprised if groups like Moratorium NOW have more than a few dozens members. maybe i am wrong. so this whole nonsense of being "ultraleft" and "alienating" is meaningless because the wwp is insignifcant, even in their pathetic attempts to dilute their line to gain a handful of followers. in my opinion, front groups are incredibly dishonest.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Yeah, front orgs have always been off-putting for me as well.

[Homo Songun]

Also, why is there a separate FRSO Fight Back, Workers' World Party, and Party of Socialism and Liberation? I don't think there's a shred of political distinction among them, and certainly not in their manners and hysteria.If you don't see it then you don't have a very sophisticated analysis, or you aren't very observant maybe?

But truly, "anti-imperialist tin-pot tankie Stalinist dictator fan bois" is a broad church. So point taken.

Also hysteria? WTF? Are you calling WWP silly old women now?


second, those are not mass organizations. a mass organization is the KKE. i would be surprised if groups like Moratorium NOW have more than a few dozens members. You don't understand Leninist terminology.

[Jose Gracchus]

I'm pretty sure hysteria has passed without gendered connotations into the standard English vocabulary.

[manic expression]

I have been watching the Marcyites for about 50 years. I have never seen them reach out to workers and build and organization. I have seen them build some very bureaucratic peace organizations, but this has little to do with organizing workers.
You should watch a little closer, then.


How many workers has PSL reached, eh?
Quite a few...week in, week out. Take notes.


And as for your personal dig, I never supported Obama after 2009, since back then, I wasn't a communist.
You're not a communist now, so what's the difference? :laugh:

[manic expression]

second, those are not mass organizations. a mass organization is the KKE.
OK, but don't forget that the KKE wasn't always such a mass organization. It took decades upon decades of organizing, of outreach, of working with different groups, of slowly getting offices set up in every major city to get to its present-day size and strength. Those are the methods that made the KKE what it is today, so why disparage them when comrades apply them in the US?

[black magick hustla]

You don't understand Leninist terminology.

whatever dawg, you call that shit a "mass organization" in front of sober people they will think you are delusional. i don't care if the leninist terminology for dog is cat

[RED DAVE]

Ihave been watching the Marcyites for about 50 years. I have never seen them reach out to workers and build and organization. I have seen them build some very bureaucratic peace organizations, but this has little to do with organizing workers.
You should watch a little closer, then.You should give us some concrete examples, then.


How many workers has PSL reached, eh?
Quite a few...week in, week out. Take notes.Again, how about some concrete examples of outreach.

RED DAVE

[manic expression]

You should give us some concrete examples, then.
You can start with the thread you're posting in. ;)