Axing of benefits for rioters

[Nox]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14474429

:thumbdown:

[Tim Finnegan]

Clearly, the London public enjoyed these riots so much that they want another one right away. :rolleyes:

[Nox]

More than 70,000 backed the one-word suggestion that Gordon Brown should "resign".


I remember voting for that one :laugh:

[Bronco]

It's madness to think that depriving them of their only form if income would prevent rioting, and the same can be said for Cameron and Clegg's plan to evict any convicted rioters from their council homes. Increase homelessness, what a great solution :rolleyes:

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

"The next most signed e-petition was the campaign to retain the ban on capital punishment, which began in response to a less popular campaign to bring it back, signed by 20,000.

The most popular of the petitions calling for the return of the death penalty has been signed by 11,000 people."

I like the above :)

But yeah, back on topic, sometimes I just wanna find a really hard object and bash my head against it repeatedly. I honestly think that some people are dense on an absolute level.

[Feodor Augustus]

It unfortunately seems that the major reaction to these riots is going to be a further drift towards authoritarianism. :(

This is in part the fault of the left, who in the absence of an easily identifiable set of political grievances from many of the rioters, alongside a lot of rather aimless destruction and looting, have cowered behind public anger and failed to put forward a line of discourse capable of challenging the dominant (and incredibly reactionary) right-wing view on the issue. Whilst those that have challenged the dominant rationale have been so stuck in their ideological cul-de-sac that much of what they have said has come off as spurious nonsense based on preconceived notions and not fresh analysis.

The left has really struggled to find its bearings on this one, as is shown by the fact that the only serious anti-cuts narrative to emerge has been the one regarding cuts to police numbers - which is hardly a 'progressive' issue to campaign on. And the debate has therefore come to be dominated by the most vile and vengeful sections of the petty-bourgeois, with the media and establishment pandering to their every prejudice while the real causes of social alienation get quietly swept under the carpet.

[Kamos]

Well, let's hope that policies like this will cause the rioters to finally organise.

[electro_fan]

It's a stupid, stupid idea and one that seems to be more about "talking tough" than anything else

[electro_fan]

as for the left struggling to find its bearings, you're right, but i think that that's because tis a really difficult issue. we've got to be VERY careful how we proceed here

[Feodor Augustus]

as for the left struggling to find its bearings, you're right, but i think that that's because tis a really difficult issue. we've got to be VERY careful how we proceed here

I don't disagree with you, it is a loaded issue and 'we', as in the left, have been dealt a very poor hand. Moreover, abstract teleological talk about 'cuts' and 'bankers' will not cut the mustard: correlation is never, in and of itself, proof of causation. But still, I don't think it really requires an overly cautious approach, which when taken to the extremes becomes a deafening silence that cedes control of the terrain of the debate to some of the most obviously reactionary elements in society. This is, in many ways, an obvious class issue, and it is also most definitely a product of social alienation. The left should, therefore, be able to say something quite definite on the issue.

Take this thread, amidst all the calls now being voiced by the political class, media and wider public for harsh punishments, it would be good to see the call that those convicted should not face prison time - particularly as most people will be charged with a non-violent crime: i.e. robbery. And that instead, they should be asked to perform community service in the affected areas. Similarly the idea of vigilante groups should have been combated with talk of community control and defence - e.g. encourage late night street parties which include all sectors of the community, rather than roaming gangs of young men looking for a fight. Furthermore, we should demand that the lines of dialogue between the government and local communities are opened. That mass meetings are held in which local people are encouraged to talk about the problems that gave rise to this, and where some form of political redress is proposed.

None of these stances are overly radical, and nor do they really risk offending anyone. Rather, they are perfectly reasonable suggestions that would be able to stop the political right from fully capitalising on this matter. Moreover, having seen a lot of video reactions to these riots, alongside having read many 'letters to the editor' and personally talked with a few people, I think people on the left (as usual) vastly underestimate the size of the political constituency that is open to its ideas. R-r-r-revolutionary talk may well alienate a lot of people, but considered progressive responses will not.

[Obs]

Woah, Britain has a huge petty bourgeoisie.

[electro_fan]

that's a very very good post, thanks for that :) I'm not sure about how I think about most of them not being charged with a crime (what about people who burned down shops with people living above them, or that gang who robbed a teenager who'd been beaten up, pretending to "help" him, surely they should go down??) but certainly people losing their benefits is completely wrong, and that guy who's just been sent to jail for stealing a bottle of water! I do agree with your post tho

[Feodor Augustus]

I'm not sure about how I think about most of them not being charged with a crime (what about people who burned down shops with people living above them, or that gang who robbed a teenager who'd been beaten up, pretending to "help" him, surely they should go down??)

Just for the record, I agree that the people who committed harmful acts towards other humans should face a stronger punishment than that which I have advocated above. The people who ran over the three Asian lads, e.g., deserve a lengthy sentence - particularly if its true that they purposefully veered onto the pavement in order to mow them down. But the majority of the criminal acts were looting shops and rioting against police, both of which I don't support custodial sentences for. (I don't support prison sentences for non-violent crime in general, so I'm not about to change my mind in this instance.)

[brigadista]

please!!! the cases being highlighted are to fuel reaction!

the real issues are not being talked about but swept under the carpet.

Make no mistake people who are most affected by this know the issues and could raise the consciousness of a few here...

the reactions are making me think that it wont be long before we see calls for public execution-[i don't mean on here]

[The Douche]

Somebody went to jail for stealing a bottle of water?:blink:

[electro_fan]

yeah, somebody did! it's fucked up!

[Arlekino]

If my child would do this and police take my son or doughtier to jail for stealing some things, well I would rebel against police no way I would agree for petty crime punish my child. So I wish all mothers and fathers should rebel against punishment. Shame on UK gov to punish our children well all MPs grabbed more thousands pounds. So once more I wish parents should start to rebel.

[Tommy4ever]

Somebody went to jail for stealing a bottle of water?:blink:

More than one bottle! £3.40 worth of water in all!

[electro_fan]

somebody think of the children !

but not their children, obviously

[red flag over teeside]

Have you checked out the ICT posting on the riots?
http://www.leftcom.org/en/articles/2011-08-09/riots-in-britain-the-fruit-of-forty-years-of-capitalist-crisis

[RadioRaheem84]

More than one bottle! £3.40 worth of water in all!

The crime is bottling the water and selling it for that much! Yet, when a worker takes a bottle he goes to jail.

Capitalism.

[Arlekino]

This riots for me don't heat me yes of course capitalism, or even probably prefeudalism. I think we need more supporters to revolt this we should organise demonstration against this. As myself not that good for organising such things but I am ready to involve in any demonstration any walkings. So bastards capitalist can you stop prosecute our children.

[Kiev Communard]

Perhaps one should "axe the benefits" for the Windsor dynasty, RBS, Lloyds Banking Group anc Co.? I am sure these notorious looters of public money are worthy to be evicted from their oversized houses as well.

[Obs]

The crime is bottling the water and selling it for that much! Yet, when a worker takes a bottle he goes to jail.

Capitalism.

The crime is demanding money for fucking water.

[Tim Finnegan]

The crime is demanding money for fucking water.
Why? The water embodies a certain amount of human labour, and so it represents a certain exchange value, which is, in capitalism, the basis upon which goods are distributed. There's nothing unique about water, in that regard. Do you think that, in communism, bottled water will spring into existence upon the shelves without human intervention? :confused:

[Obs]

Why? The water embodies a certain amount of human labour, and so it represents a certain exchange value, which is, in capitalism, the basis upon which goods are distributed. There's nothing unique about water, in that regard. Do you think that, in communism, bottled water will spring into existence upon the shelves without human intervention? :confused:

Yes.