Bullying

[Nox]

I have been debating a friend over the past few days about what constitutes bullying, how much of a problem bullying is, why certain people are susceptible to bullying and what causes bullying.

- We both agree that what constitiutes bullying is victimising a specific person in any way without a very good reason.

- We disagree a little on how much of a problem bullying is, he thinks it is just something that happens to everyone and eventually is forgotten about, and I can sorta see where he's coming from in a way, but I think that bullying is a huge problem for some people that is only getting worse that can ruin people's lives and people's education.

- We agree that introverted people or people who are different from the 'normal people' are the most susceptible to bullying, and we also agree that most bullies are extraverted people.

- We seriously disagree on why people bully. He seems to think that Bullying is a totally natural human characteristic. I tried to explain to him that it is a product of the social environment and that in order to succeed in Capitalism you need to be 'mean'. but he didn't take that seriously. Is there any solid evidence I can show to him that proves bullying is not a natural human characteristic? Or could someone write a very convincing argument for bullying being a product of the social environment?

[Joe Payne]

I would say people bully others because of deep entrenched insecurities brought on of course by social conditions. I was both bullied and a bully. I was bullied by kids who were regularly abused, were orphans living in a foster home, had parents that committed suicide when they were home, were doing terribly in school, had trouble with their sexuality (some eventually did come out and have since led far happier, non bullying lives) or were themselves victimised in their neighborhoods by other, older hoods in their community.

Did me being bullied cause mental anguish and other social problems? Yes, one being that I just found other kids that I was larger and more socially apt than and merely did the same to them! I did awful things to a few people that merely came from a place of needing to compensate for my own bullying and feelings of deep insecurity. How do you get over it? Class consciousness.

However the depiction of bullies in popular media generally depcits a poor working class male picking on more afluent younger boys, and then the smart, afluent younger boy devises a complex plan to "get back" at the bully. I.e. the poor bourgeoisie triumphs over the brutish proles. This is obviously ridiculous but it is how bullies are portrayed.

[Nox]

I would say people bully others because of deep entrenched insecurities brought on of course by social conditions. I was both bullied and a bully. I was bullied by kids who were regularly abused, were orphans living in a foster home, had parents that committed suicide when they were home, were doing terribly in school, had trouble with their sexuality (some eventually did come out and have since led far happier, non bullying lives) or were themselves victimised in their neighborhoods by other, older hoods in their community.

Did me being bullied cause mental anguish and other social problems? Yes, one being that I just found other kids that I was larger and more socially apt than and merely did the same to them! I did awful things to a few people that merely came from a place of needing to compensate for my own bullying and feelings of deep insecurity. How do you get over it? Class consciousness.

However the depiction of bullies in popular media generally depcits a poor working class male picking on more afluent younger boys, and then the smart, afluent younger boy devises a complex plan to "get back" at the bully. I.e. the poor bourgeoisie triumphs over the brutish proles. This is obviously ridiculous but it is how bullies are portrayed.

I think you may be slightly missing the point here, my friend is trying to say that it is human instinct to victimise physically or mentally weak people. I am looking for evidence to debunk his claim.

[Nox]

While I can see where you are coming from, I kind of agree with your friend on this one.

In my experience classroom bullies are usually insecure kids who compensate for that by bullying on the kids who are the least able (or willing) to take a stand.

While I do believe that in a superior, socialist education system bullying can be adequately dealt with, I don't think its necessary to adopt a class analysis on this issue

I agree with him that people naturally bully weaker/different people, but what I'm saying is that the human nature of bullying is only a product of the social environment we live in, not a hard-wired human instinct, that's where me and him disagree.

[black magick hustla]

i was bullied a lot when i was a kid. it def. affected me a lot and made me who i am today. i think it is an awful thing for a kid and school to some people is living hell. like i don't think many parents understand how horrible bullying and social osctacizing makes children and teens feel. fuck bullies

[CAleftist]

Bullying has gone up in the US with the increase in suburbanization and the decline of communities in general. Also, I think a lot of kids who are bullies are just doing what their parents do-who are often abusive to them.

[Nox]

Also, I think a lot of kids who are bullies are just doing what their parents do-who are often abusive to them.

Honestly, of all the people who have bullied me in the past, I can't really say any of them have that sort of background.

[noble brown]

I think its both enviromemtal and hard wired.
As a group we are hard wired for social conformity, to obey the social norms. Non-conformists are usually pressured in some way by their peer group to get back in line. This is observable in all types of social structures, human and otherwise.
The exact nature of bullying is enviromental. Bullying is a very aggressive, individualistic form of social conformity pressure. I would like to nominate capitalist culture as the culprit here. Contemporary capitalism has created a culture of hyper-individualism and hyper-aggressivness. Our poor kids

[#FF0000]

"It's natural" is a bad argument. Murder is pretty natural (whatever that means) too and I imagine he'd have a problem being shot in the face.

I mean, I guess you could say that suffering, period, is natural, but that doesn't stop people from trying to lessen suffering.

Yeah he's stupid for using "its natural" as an argument. Natural =/= good or acceptable.

[piet11111]

I think you may be slightly missing the point here, my friend is trying to say that it is human instinct to victimise physically or mentally weak people. I am looking for evidence to debunk his claim.

I was bullied a lot as a kid but always by at least 6 others because i was the strongest kid in class.
when i was ~10 i even dragged a teacher a woman in her 50's to the principal because she pinched me very hard in my arm where even 10 minutes later you could still see where her fingernails dug into my skin.

I am however autistic and as such was not very social with the other kids and that is why i believe i was bullied.

[DarkPast]

I was bullied a lot as a kid but always by at least 6 others because i was the strongest kid in class.
when i was ~10 i even dragged a teacher a woman in her 50's to the principal because she pinched me very hard in my arm where even 10 minutes later you could still see where her fingernails dug into my skin.

I am however autistic and as such was not very social with the other kids and that is why i believe i was bullied.

Yes, I do think it has more to do with not comforming than with being weak. The strongest guy in my class was unpopular and mobbed as a result. I even heart that, once, the bullies lined up and took turns kickin him when he was down (and he already got beaten up before that).

Bullies come from all strata of society. In my primary school the most notorious one came from poor alcoholic parents. But there were even more bullies who you could describe as typical spoiled rich kids. They'd pick on us just because we weren't as rich as they were. One of their favourite insults could be translated as "peasant".

What all bullies have in common is that they're trying to compensate - for not being the best at something, or wanting to be even more popular etc. A society that encourages cut-throat competition and a winner-takes-all mentality sure doesn't help.

[Blackburn]

Cowardice is always present in a bully.

[noble brown]

You know what I think is always present in a bully? Anger.