The left=no influence

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

I hate to admit it, but I believe in being truthful to myself and others. But, with what is going on in London, i.e Flash Mobs beathing people walking down the street, busting into stores and Stealing not food!!!! but TV's, cell phone's, Cigarettes, booze etc, all this is, is an act of misplaced,
unorganized anger, peppered with opportunistic low-life thugs.

And what does this show? it shows the nonexistent influence the left groups have, not only in London, but here in the U.S. These zombies do not want brotherhood and democracy, they want to be led.And!!! they want to be led by people that are as misguided, that express the same bias, screwed up political outlook as they. I've noticed how easy it is to get these working class zobies to believe in, and follow, everything that is wrong, but when you talk to them and try to prove how their position is flawed, how there is something wrong with having to pay to live, they all have the same response "so what do you want, a free ride!!!".they want nothing to do with the prospect of unifying with others and taking power.

What all of you have to understand is there are many, many different groups, political and religious, that are looking for someone to LEAD them!!! someone that reflects THEIR biased ideology. And, the overwelming majority all think that this system, i.e having to pay to live, is RATIONAL!!!! So, pull up a chair and watch the working class zombie freak show go by.

[Quail]

Welcome back LETSFIGHTBACK. I'm glad to see you still have the same disdain for the working class as ever. Sorry, why do you post here again?

[CommunityBeliever]

And what does this show? it shows the nonexistent influence the left groups have, not only in London, but here in the U.S.

What this shows is the potential for that to change. Now that people are revolting they may become opened up to class consciousness once again.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I half hope you're just trolling.

First, yes the left has little influence in capitalist society these days and there are a whole lot of reasons for that from the dominance of neoliberalism and the mainstream marginalization of not just radicalism but Keyensiansim and reformism to repression of movements and radical politics to mistakes by leftist groups themselves. But what this had all lead to is a general separation of radical politics from the working class - this is especially true for the US.

Because of this situation - especially now as capitalism is in crisis and we are seeing a return of a more apparent and obvious kind of class struggle - I think one of the main tasks for radicals today is to try and rebuild a left that is more rooted in the working class (i.e. grassroots in orientation). Wisconsin, Egypt, and yes these riots show that people are unwilling and sometimes basically just unable to put up with the one-sided class war any longer and are taking action. The lack of struggle for 30 years or so means that it's going to be messy and all over the place - in some cases fight-back will be half-baked and timid, other instances will be just raw expressions of anger such as in these riots. IMO it's imperative that conscious radicals encourage people standing up to the status quo while also argue for what it will ultimately take to defeat the attacks or stop police brutality and harassment. So the last thing we should be doing is joining the pro-austerity pro-attacking working class people in moralizing and condeming people who have withdrawn their consent for the staus quo and expressing their anger - yes it is mixed and confused, but it is inherently a rejection of allowing the staus-quo to continue without a ruckus.

[#FF0000]

And what does this show? it shows the nonexistent influence the left groups have, not only in London, but here in the U.S. These zombies do not want brotherhood and democracy, they want to be led.And!!! they want to be led by people that are as misguided, that express the same bias, screwed up political outlook as they. I've noticed how easy it is to get these working class zobies to believe in, and follow, everything that is wrong, but when you talk to them and try to prove how their position is flawed, how there is something wrong with having to pay to live, they all have the same response "so what do you want, a free ride!!!".they want nothing to do with the prospect of unifying with others and taking power.

I'm going to try a new posting technique I call the "compliment sandwich".

First, you a clearly very passionate about your beliefs.

You are a twat.

But it is very clear you spent at least a minute thinking very hard about this post and it shows! Good job!

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

Welcome back LETSFIGHTBACK. I'm glad to see you still have the same disdain for the working class as ever. Sorry, why do you post here again?


Yeah, that's it, attack me,and accuse me of having distain for the working class. with you, being a part of the myopic left, that can't see past their nose, you fail to recognise, and accept the fact that[which you skillfully ignored] the "working class" dosen't want to be organised, and doesn't want to lead, they want to be led!!!! and they want to be led by a person that mirros and reflects their own biased, screwed up ideology. as I said, which you, again, ignored, because just like the working class whose backward mindless behavior you are so quick to make excuses for,they are not interested in the truth, because that's means recognizing that everything they have believed in, for all these years was a lie!!! the working class isn't interested in political theory, they are interested in an idea that can benefit them, PERSONALLY, the hell with society in a whole, at that moment. and if it can't, at that moment, prove benefical, they have no interest.And, as I said, which you, and the rest ignored, they see nothing wrong with a system that has you paying to live!!!. yeah, revolution, with these zombies lol lol lol

[Luc]

whats that "flash mobs beathing people walking down the streets"?

is it "flash mobs beating people..." I haven't heard of that before

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

Yes, it's happening here in Philly, and London, heard through a comrades in London. And they organize through facebook and twitter.and that's how easy it is to organize for all the wrong reasons. now try organizing them for all the right reasons lol lol

[Revy]

And what does this show? it shows the nonexistent influence the left groups have, not only in London, but here in the U.S. These zombies do not want brotherhood and democracy, they want to be led.And!!! they want to be led by people that are as misguided, that express the same bias, screwed up political outlook as they. I've noticed how easy it is to get these working class zobies to believe in, and follow, everything that is wrong, but when you talk to them and try to prove how their position is flawed, how there is something wrong with having to pay to live, they all have the same response "so what do you want, a free ride!!!".they want nothing to do with the prospect of unifying with others and taking power.


Zombies? Did a zombie eat your brain? sounds like it.;)

[Tenka]

busting into stores and Stealing not food!!!! but TV's, cell phone's, Cigarettes, booze etc, all this is, is an act of misplaced,
unorganized anger, peppered with opportunistic low-life thugs.
You are so right, shame on them, not waiting until they're dying of hunger to start disrespecting property rights in the midst of some upheaval.

[Jimmie Higgins]

You are so right, shame on them, not waiting until they're dying of hunger to start disrespecting property rights in the midst of some upheaval.They call it looting, I call it trickle-down economics:lol:

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

I half hope you're just trolling.

If he is, he's committed. He repeats these same positions in real life.

[danyboy27]

the problem is simple, people dont read enough lenin.

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

I'm going to try a new posting technique I call the "compliment sandwich".

First, you a clearly very passionate about your beliefs.

You are a twat.

But it is very clear you spent at least a minute thinking very hard about this post and it shows! Good job!


I'm a "twat", wow very intellectually deep. is that based on Marxist theory? lol lol

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

You are so right, shame on them, not waiting until they're dying of hunger to start disrespecting property rights in the midst of some upheaval.


Oh yes, Booze, cigarettes, TV's, Cell Phones, all part of a nutritious diet!!! lol lol

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Yea. It's in the same chapter as the bit on working class zombies.

[Lynx]

Maybe they are rejecting the ideology of personal responsibility because they conclude it is pointless to be personally responsible when you have no job, no money and no reason to believe that the situation will change.

They are told there is no alternative, that it is entirely up to them whether they succeed or fail. Accept your lot in life, accept being dependent on whatever meager resources society allots to you. Accept being a failure as defined by those who have managed to secure a better spot on the ladder.

That's a lot to accept.

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

the problem is simple, people dont read enough lenin.


You're partly right, people just don't read, well, except for People Mag, the sports section, etc. lol lol

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

Maybe they are rejecting the ideology of personal responsibility because they conclude it is pointless to be personally responsible when you have no job, no money and no reason to believe that the situation will change.

They are told there is no alternative, that it is entirely up to them whether they succeed or fail. Accept your lot in life, accept being dependent on whatever meager resources society allots to you. Accept being a failure as defined by those who have managed to secure a better spot on the ladder.

That's a lot to accept.


OH YES, you are so, so right, so let's burn down OUR OWN neighborhoods, OUR OWN communities, let's burn down the little corner store, and in the mean time, create MORE unemployment for the handful low wage people that we're working there,yes, makes a ton of sense. All that is, is an act of powerlessness, not knowing who to blame or who to fight. And when you have this braindead, go nowhere, useless act of violence, all it hurts is other working class people. like I said, they're burning down their own communities and attacking other working class people, it shows the influence that you and your little chat groups have, which makes you feel like you're accomplishing so much, and that is nil to none.

[thesadmafioso]

The 'left' has traditionally been without much orthodox political influence in times without the necessary conditions for revolution being in place. If you will recall for a moment the October Revolution of 1917, the Bolsheviks were virtually unknown mere months before the workers came to power. The politics of revolution cannot be assessed using bourgeois metrics of political clout as they exist well beyond the confines of such constructs.

It is not as if the working class is made up of 'zombies', as you so tastefully put it, but rather that they are currently presented with no substantial method to combat the hegemony of bourgeois culture. They have been lulled into an incomplete political slumber, but this is an act of repression which cannot sustain itself indefinitely. Once the material existence of capitalist society corrode this facade to a point where it is no longer near absolute in its reach, the vanguard party will be afforded the opportunity to lead to proletariat to victory in the class struggle.

[Jose Gracchus]

The Bolsheviks were certainly not "unknown" prior to 1917.

[thesadmafioso]

The Bolsheviks were certainly not "unknown" prior to 1917.

To the average Russian worker, they more or less were unknown prior to the months after the February Revolution. They obviously were quite prominent in the various different Russian emerge communities throughout Europe and other assorted leftist political circles, but I hardly think that makes them an influential party in the sense which is being used in this topic.

The Tsar's police would methodically hunt down and exile any members of the party in Russia who would rise to prominence and they forced most all of the major party members into willing exile abroad. The entire structure of the Bolshevik organization was forced to go underground, where it was still under perpetual siege from the forces of the Tsar. All of this posed a tremendous strain to the parties ability to carry out standard political actives, thus severely limiting its ability to gain influence. Many also saw the split in the Russian Social-Democratic party as meaningless and thus paid the Bolshevik faction little attention as a serious political force.

[Lynx]

OH YES, you are so, so right, so let's burn down OUR OWN neighborhoods, OUR OWN communities, let's burn down the little corner store, and in the mean time, create MORE unemployment for the handful low wage people that we're working there,yes, makes a ton of sense. All that is, is an act of powerlessness, not knowing who to blame or who to fight. And when you have this braindead, go nowhere, useless act of violence, all it hurts is other working class people. like I said, they're burning down their own communities and attacking other working class people, it shows the influence that you and your little chat groups have, which makes you like you're accomplishing so much have, and that is nil to none.
Yes they are powerless and have nothing to lose (or so it is claimed).

The revolutionary left has no influence, and won't win or lose from the riots themselves. It is the reformists and progressives who will take a drubbing from the right. If they are cowed into silence I won't miss their exit from the political scene.

[Rusty Shackleford]

They call it looting, I call it trickle-down economics:lol:
I do say, that was brilliant!

[Pirate Utopian]

Those fucking peasants, right LETSFIGHTBACK?
Thank God for intellectuals like yourself.

[Agent Equality]

Yeah, that's it, attack me,and accuse me of having distain for the working class. with you, being a part of the myopic left, that can't see past their nose, you fail to recognise, and accept the fact that[which you skillfully ignored] the "working class" dosen't want to be organised, and doesn't want to lead, they want to be led!!!! and they want to be led by a person that mirros and reflects their own biased, screwed up ideology. as I said, which you, again, ignored, because just like the working class whose backward mindless behavior you are so quick to make excuses for,they are not interested in the truth, because that's means recognizing that everything they have believed in, for all these years was a lie!!! the working class isn't interested in political theory, they are interested in an idea that can benefit them, PERSONALLY, the hell with society in a whole, at that moment. and if it can't, at that moment, prove benefical, they have no interest.And, as I said, which you, and the rest ignored, they see nothing wrong with a system that has you paying to live!!!. yeah, revolution, with these zombies lol lol lol

I'm slightly confused by....all of this :confused:
He's obviously a troll. Can we just voteban him already or something?

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

The 'left' has traditionally been without much orthodox political influence in times without the necessary conditions for revolution being in place. If you will recall for a moment the October Revolution of 1917, the Bolsheviks were virtually unknown mere months before the workers came to power. The politics of revolution cannot be assessed using bourgeois metrics of political clout as they exist well beyond the confines of such constructs.

It is not as if the working class is made up of 'zombies', as you so tastefully put it, but rather that they are currently presented with no substantial method to combat the hegemony of bourgeois culture. They have been lulled into an incomplete political slumber, but this is an act of repression which cannot sustain itself indefinitely. Once the material existence of capitalist society corrode this facade to a point where it is no longer near absolute in its reach, the vanguard party will be afforded the opportunity to lead to proletariat to victory in the class struggle.


First off, you people are so, so stuck in the past. You respond in the same manner,it's always "the Russian Revolution this, and the Russian Revolution that." First!!! you cannot, cannot compare Qualitatively, the Russian working class to the American working class. Even in 1917, you could not compare.2nd, you are talking about a society that went from Feudalism to Socialism. AND!!!! under feudalism, It was easy to know who held all the power, it was easy to know whom the enemy was, and therefore whom to organize and fight against.So comparing the two is comparing apples and oranges.

Here in the U.S, we are talking about a society so, so entrenched in consumerism, so obsessed with the accumulation of things, trying to get rich,a society so alienated from their own wants, needs, their own thoughts,a society that actually believes you should have to pay to live, a society that thinks that private ownership of the necessities of life is normal, a society that thinks, if you can't pay your gas, electric, your rent, you should be shut off and thrown out, the working class that says to other working class people "what do you want, a free ride, if I have to pay then you have to pay".A society that actually thinks this is a normal way to live. and you are going to try and compare this society to pre 1917 Russia? that's the problem with you people, you're stuck in the past, and you don't have a clue about what you are dealing with now.

[brigadista]

to be quite honest i find the condemnation here terrible - does noone think it a terrible thing that young kids feel they have nothing to lose and nothing going for them?

the media here is awful i am surprised public execution hasn't been suggested as a "solution" and vigilantes are being praised ..

feeling very sad about my town right now.

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

I'm slightly confused by....all of this :confused:
He's obviously a troll. Can we just voteban him already or something?


BAN HIM!!!!! lol lol that's the way you people act, even in your own parties, you don't like someones opinion, so you throw him/her out and ban them. And you are the people that claim to fight for a free society lol lol lol and that's why I say, along with others, you people are just as intollerant and repressive as the very forces you are fighting against, you both hate people thinking for themselves. I remember the Capitalist media treating me the same way.

[Kosakk]

BAN HIM!!!!! lol lol that's the way you people act, even in your own parties, you don't like someones opinion, so you throw him/her out and ban them. And you are the people that claim to fight for a free society lol lol lol and that's why I say, along with others, you people are just as intollerant and repressive as the very forces you are fighting against, you both hate people thinking for themselves. I remember the Capitalist media treating me the same way.

There's a difference between banning political opposition and banning trolls.

And as far as I see, you don't have any opinions, only rants …

[thesadmafioso]

First off, you people are so, so stuck in the past. You respond in the same manner,it's always "the Russian Revolution this, and the Russian Revolution that." First!!! you cannot, cannot compare Qualitatively, the Russian working class to the American working class. Even in 1917, you could not compare.2nd, you are talking about a society that went from Feudalism to Socialism. AND!!!! under feudalism, It was easy to know who held all the power, it was easy to know whom the enemy was, and therefore whom to organize and fight against.So comparing the two is comparing apples and oranges.

Here in the U.S, we are talking about a society so, so entrenched in consumerism, so obsessed with the accumulation of things, trying to get rich,a society so alienated from their own wants, needs, their own thoughts,a society that actually believes you should have to pay to live, a society that thinks that private ownership of the necessities of life is normal, a society that thinks, if you can't pay your gas, electric, your rent, you should be shut off and thrown out, the working class that says to other working class people "what do you want, a free ride, if I have to pay then you have to pay".A society that actually thinks this is a normal way to live. and you are going to try and compare this society to pre 1917 Russia? that's the problem with you people, you're stuck in the past, and you don't have a clue about what you are dealing with now.

I was not comparing the working class of Russia circa 1917 to the contemporary state of the American working class, I was merely showing that it is possible for a vanguard party to come into a position of great significance in a short period of time when social and economic preconditions allow for it.

I have to say that was a really beautiful run on sentence assailing a straw man though.

[black magick hustla]

i rather have nihilistic rioting and mass looting than the working class being marshalled by another leftist racket to the slaughterhouse. atleast anti social "low lives" in their ludic destruction have more class sense than the people who were integrated to a segment of the state (see KKE denouncing the rioting youth in greece)

[Obs]

So, LETSFIGHTBACK, what do you suggest we do?

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

So, LETSFIGHTBACK, what do you suggest we do?

Liberate the animals and become petit-bourgeoisie vegan life-stylists operating coöperative fruit shops, it will solve everything and is the true revolutionary spirit! :sneaky:

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

Liberate the animals and become petit-bourgeoisie vegan life-stylists operating coöperative fruit shops, it will solve everything and is the true revolutionary spirit! :sneaky:


I see the parasites and fat from all those dead animals continue to eat away the remaining few braincells you have left.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

I see the parasites and fat from all those dead animals continue to eat away the remaining few braincells you have left.

At least I have some left. They're so warm and fuzzy when they get electric every now and then.

[Obs]

I see the parasites and fat from all those dead animals continue to eat away the remaining few braincells you have left.
Please answer my question. What do you suggest we do?

[Hit The North]

It's a little ironic that someone who goes under the moniker of LETSFIGHTBACK sees young working class youth fighting back and he dismisses them as zombies.

Sir, you have a talent for comedy - which might be better served on another forum.

[Jimmie Higgins]

OH YES, you are so, so right, so let's burn down OUR OWN neighborhoods, OUR OWN communities, let's burn down the little corner store, and in the mean time, create MORE unemployment for the handful low wage people that we're working there,yes, makes a ton of sense.

You do know the Malcolm X metaphor about the house slave and the field slave don't you?

As Malcolm told it: in the days of slavery there were two kinds of slaves: the house slave and the field slave. The house slave, because he is treated slightly better than the field slave, would begin to identify with his master. When the master got sick, the house slave would ask, 'Is WE sick?' and when the master's house caught on fire he'd say, 'OUR house is on fire'. But the field slave was mistreated everyday and worked hard everyday for nothing and so he would go to the house slave and say let's run away from this wicked master. But the house slave would say, "why run away from all we got here?".

Are OUR neighborhoods, OUR shops on fire? Is it really riots that are making people loose jobs right now?



All that is, is an act of powerlessness, not knowing who to blame or who to fight.You're right: it's alienation - except this is what alienation, a constant in capitalist society, looks like when people CAN'T take it longer. And not putting up with it is a pre-requisite for people beginning to try and figure out how to build an alternative.

[Rafiq]

The left = no influence? What do you call the events in the UK, Greece, the Middle East and Israel?

You're naive. Class warfare was never ended. It was merely delayed.

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

You do know the Malcolm X metaphor about the house slave and the field slave don't you?

As Malcolm told it: in the days of slavery there were two kinds of slaves: the house slave and the field slave. The house slave, because he is treated slightly better than the field slave, would begin to identify with his master. When the master got sick, the house slave would ask, 'Is WE sick?' and when the master's house caught on fire he'd say, 'OUR house is on fire'. But the field slave was mistreated everyday and worked hard everyday for nothing and so he would go to the house slave and say let's run away from this wicked master. But the house slave would say, "why run away from all we got here?".

Are OUR neighborhoods, OUR shops on fire? Is it really riots that are making people loose jobs right now?


You're right: it's alienation - except this is what alienation, a constant in capitalist society, looks like when people CAN'T take it longer. And not putting up with it is a pre-requisite for people beginning to try and figure out how to build an alternative.


GOOD ONE!!! but there is one difference, THE SLAVES, WHEN THEY REBELLED, WANTED TO OVERTHROW SLAVERY, the working class, if you ever asked them, see Capitalism as the natural order of things. They have no intentions of removing it. They, in a whole, think that IT CAN WORK,they can't imagine living under any other system, but it needs some fine tuning here and there.The problem with people and groups on the left is, you are so, so,so desperate for an uprising, that when you see someone throws a bottle, brakes a window, waves their fist in the air, you make it out to be something it's not. Do yourself a favor,and it's what I did last year, go out on the street, spend a whole week interviewing people, and ask the question, "do you think Capitalism should be replaced, overthrown, and replace by socialism?" and you will hear many, many people say "I they don't like what is going on, and they will ***** about the Corporations, and the politicians etc, but they will say that capitalism can work if this and that was done, you know, some fine tuning. Don't believe me? try it. Now, the question was asked of me "what do I think should be done" I'll tell you, just like when a house is dilapidated, falling apart, and it's too far gone, NOTHING!!!!! I say let it come crumbling down. Sometimes you have to start from scatch. If these jackasses, and their unions want to think that this system can work, and they want to save it, then let them suffer the wrath of what it produces. They deserve EVEYTHING that this system brings upon them.

[Tenka]

I say let it come crumbling down. Sometimes you have to start from scatch. If these jackasses, and their unions want to think that this system can work, and they want to save it, then let them suffer the wrath of what it produces. They deserve EVEYTHING that this system brings upon them.
Sorry, I was so appalled by that last line that I forgot what immediately preceded it. Anyway, the riots clearly don't have anything to do with "saving" capitalism.

[RED DAVE]

Yeah, that's it, attack me,and accuse me of having distain for the working class. with you, being a part of the myopic left, that can't see past their nose, you fail to recognise, and accept the fact that[which you skillfully ignored] the "working class" dosen't want to be organised, and doesn't want to lead, they want to be led!!!!Sound like every fascist (or stalinist on a bad hair day) that I've ever met.


and they want to be led by a person that mirros and reflects their own biased, screwed up ideology.Yeah. Unh-huh. That's what they want.


as I saidAs you said.


which you, again, ignoredOh, the pain of being ignored. The courage to stand alone!


because just like the working class whose backward mindless behavior you are so quick to make excuses for,they are not interested in the truth, because that's means recognizing that everything they have believed in, for all these years was a lie!!!So Marxism is a lie.


the working class isn't interested in political theory, they are interested in an idea that can benefit them, PERSONALLY, the hell with society in a whole, at that moment.Now you're a libertarian! Seen any good Ayn Rand movies lately?


and if it can't, at that moment, prove benefical, they have no interest.Poor working class. Just doesn't have the great vision you do.


And, as I saidAs you said.


which you, and the rest ignoredOh, the pain of being ignored. The courage to stand alone!


they see nothing wrong with a system that has you paying to live!!!. yeah, revolution, with these zombies lol lol lolI know a really deep cave up in northern Canada. You can have it for free. PM me, and I'll send you it's location. You can live on mooseberries and dried caribou meat. We will miss you, but we will forgive you your absence.

Hope you feel better in a year or so.

RED DAVE

[Obs]

GOOD ONE!!! but there is one difference, THE SLAVES, WHEN THEY REBELLED, WANTED TO OVERTHROW SLAVERY, the working class, if you ever asked them, see Capitalism as the natural order of things. They have no intentions of removing it. They, in a whole, think that IT CAN WORK,they can't imagine living under any other system, but it needs some fine tuning here and there.The problem with people and groups on the left is, you are so, so,so desperate for an uprising, that when you see someone throws a bottle, brakes a window, waves their fist in the air, you make it out to be something it's not. Do yourself a favor,and it's what I did last year, go out on the street, spend a whole week interviewing people, and ask the question, "do you think Capitalism should be replaced, overthrown, and replace by socialism?" and you will hear many, many people say "I they don't like what is going on, and they will ***** about the Corporations, and the politicians etc, but they will say that capitalism can work if this and that was done, you know, some fine tuning. Don't believe me? try it. Now, the question was asked of me "what do I think should be done" I'll tell you, just like when a house is dilapidated, falling apart, and it's too far gone, NOTHING!!!!! I say let it come crumbling down. Sometimes you have to start from scatch. If these jackasses, and their unions want to think that this system can work, and they want to save it, then let them suffer the wrath of what it produces. They deserve EVEYTHING that this system brings upon them.
Funny how you seem to keep missing this, but I'll ask again... What do you suggest we do?

[Coach Trotsky]

Sorry, I was so appalled by that last line that I forgot what immediately preceded it. Anyway, the riots clearly don't have anything to do with "saving" capitalism.

In America, when we rebel, what should we do with those who come out with American and Confederate flags, with crucifixes, or any other symbol signifying their support and defense of this system?
I say, make them an example of what we will do to this system.
If they dare write such a check, then we should righteously cash it out on their system-defending asses!

[thesadmafioso]

GOOD ONE!!! but there is one difference, THE SLAVES, WHEN THEY REBELLED, WANTED TO OVERTHROW SLAVERY, the working class, if you ever asked them, see Capitalism as the natural order of things. They have no intentions of removing it. They, in a whole, think that IT CAN WORK,they can't imagine living under any other system, but it needs some fine tuning here and there.The problem with people and groups on the left is, you are so, so,so desperate for an uprising, that when you see someone throws a bottle, brakes a window, waves their fist in the air, you make it out to be something it's not. Do yourself a favor,and it's what I did last year, go out on the street, spend a whole week interviewing people, and ask the question, "do you think Capitalism should be replaced, overthrown, and replace by socialism?" and you will hear many, many people say "I they don't like what is going on, and they will ***** about the Corporations, and the politicians etc, but they will say that capitalism can work if this and that was done, you know, some fine tuning. Don't believe me? try it. Now, the question was asked of me "what do I think should be done" I'll tell you, just like when a house is dilapidated, falling apart, and it's too far gone, NOTHING!!!!! I say let it come crumbling down. Sometimes you have to start from scatch. If these jackasses, and their unions want to think that this system can work, and they want to save it, then let them suffer the wrath of what it produces. They deserve EVEYTHING that this system brings upon them.

So you have developed this deep seated scorn for the working class after interviewing a few individuals 'on the street' for a week? Do you truly not see the glaring errors in the weak foundations of such faulty efforts of empirical observation? You cannot simply speak to such a small collection of individuals for such a brief period of time and take this incredibly sweeping conclusion from the experiment. When we factor in your clear ignorance of the Marxist theory which would explain the development of this occurring of false consciousness, the failings present in your methodology only become more readily apparent.

Without the proper theory to understand this sort of interaction, you are bound to misinterpret it and to be faced with discouragement. It should be recognized that these people still have legitimate and very real grievances with capitalism, but that they just are not capable of fighting through the mess of capitalist culture to see the necessary steps to be taken in order to combat these issues. It is not an easy conclusion for every worker to reach, given the near absolute hegemony of bourgeois culture in developed capitalist society, and you need to keep that in mind when talking to the masses.