Rebellions in the United States?

[tachosomoza]

Question, comrades...If the rebellion comes to the United States, where do you think it's going to spark? My guess is the Midwest. Chicago, Saint Louis, Milwaukee, Detroit, Minneapolis are ripe.

[Metacomet]

Detroit.

L.A

[Weezer]

The most recent riots in the US were in New Orleans and Los Angeles, IIRC. Action will probably happen there.

I got bets on LA. Detroit too, considering how the economy tore apart Michigan.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

I'm going to have to reiterate what I said in the other thread, somewhere in California. It doesn't have to be in LA or SF, it can be almost anywhere. Across the entire state we have cuts in education, police brutality which is happening across the entire state, and high unemployment.

I'll give you an example of where I live, in San Joaquin County. I live right between two large cities(Modesto and Stockton) which are on the top ten most miserable cities with Stockton being number 1. In Stockton you have 20% unemployment and 16.7% unemployment in the whole county. In Modesto you have 15% unemployment and 17.2% unemployment in the whole county. And this of course doesn't take into account real unemployment which would make it even higher. In my county the police are so backed up that they still have to investigate 5 cases of police killing people recently and the situation is the same in Modesto. We have some of the highest percentages of poverty in the whole entire nation, 1 in 4 children in this county lived in poverty in 2003 :( but I think that fell to 20% in 2007, but with the recession it's probably much worse now.

And this is a familiar story all across California, especially across the Valley.

[Fawkes]

Given the rapid gentrification, continual hikes in public transit fares and CUNY tuition/cuts in budget, growing police presence everywhere, and bleak job market, New York could become pretty volatile in the somewhat near future. Neighborhoods are getting raized, luxury condos are getting put up and nobody is moving into the condos. MTA service is fucking shit and while meanwhile they just raised monthly passes from $89 to $104 and are set to raise them again, people are dying (http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=8165020) from the heat in subway stations (I say people cause this is not the first time, nor is it the most gruesome (http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2011/01/19/news/photos_stories/DSC_0020070541.JPG--300x300.jpg) event resulting from the MTA's incompetency). You can't smoke in Times Square or Central Park or Coney Island (or any beach, park, or public plaza anymore), but not that that matters seeing as how the drive to sell as many I <3 NY shirts as humanly possible has effectively drained them of their capacities as public spaces meant for public use. Black people are a minority in Harlem and those fucking pricks at Columbia are clearing out more and more of the neighborhood to expand their piece of shit ivy league campus.

I'm totally rambling, but suffice to say that at the current rate, NY could become a pretty tense place in the next 1-3 years.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

The Rust Belt and eastern side of the Midwest have it pretty bad, like Chicago, Detroit, St Louis, South Bend, Grand Rapids, Cleveland, Indianapolis, etc. Those cities have it rough, but people in places like California are always ready to throw down as well.

[Susurrus]

Not the South.

[Zav]

In would happen in a city, of course. I would say NYC, LA, and Chicago would be the most likely candidates. They seem to be the most slummy and diverse. Perhaps Boston would be more fitting, though. The Tea Party would hate a Communist Revolution there more than anywhere else.

[AnonymousOne]

The sites of the biggest disparities in income and living standards, so the major cities of the U.S: LA, New York, Chicago, etc.

It would probably be a lot like what we're seeing in Britain, and have seen through out revolutions, pockets of revolutionary sentiment that then begin to expand and mobilize others around them.

But once again, we're fairly far away from that. However, given recent events and an apparently renewed vigor to protest/demonstrate, there are positive portents for the future.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

Not the South.
Even New Orleans??

The most recent figure I can find for the poverty rate in New Orleans is 27.9%, that was in 1999. That's pre-Katrina and pre-Recession.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/22/2255000.html

[Leftsolidarity]

Luckily for me (I think) everyone keeps saying that if there was a revolution it would be near me. I would have to agree with the mid-west. California and New York would be pretty likely though.

[Martin Blank]

Benton Harbor, MI

[A Revolutionary Tool]

The sites of the biggest disparities in income and living standards, so the major cities of the U.S: LA, New York, Chicago, etc.

It would probably be a lot like what we're seeing in Britain, and have seen through out revolutions, pockets of revolutionary sentiment that then begin to expand and mobilize others around them.

But once again, we're fairly far away from that. However, given recent events and an apparently renewed vigor to protest/demonstrate, there are positive portents for the future.
I don't know about that, a lot of people are pretty pissed about everything in general. I just got out of high school this summer and even my very conservative friends are starting to get very pissed off that we couldn't get jobs this summer and the school year is about to start for college. How are we supposed to pay for college when tuition has been raised and we couldn't even find a job during the summer? I don't even think I'll be able to go to school when the semester begins, I have no money to pay for classes and neither do my friends. We used to have a saying amongst ourselves that was a joke, we'd say "when we're all together and bored illegal shit happens". And now we're bored and mad because we can't find fucking jobs, that's how the riots are going to start!

EDIT: sorry for that rant but as you can tell I'm a little pissed off about my situation in life and it's not like I'm the only one feeling this here.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

I don't know about that, a lot of people are pretty pissed about everything in general. I just got out of high school this summer and even my very conservative friends are starting to get very pissed off that we couldn't get jobs this summer and the school year is about to start for college. How are we supposed to pay for college when tuition has been raised and we couldn't even find a job during the summer? I don't even think I'll be able to go to school when the semester begins, I have no money to pay for classes and neither do my friends. We used to have a saying amongst ourselves that was a joke, we'd say "when we're all together and bored illegal shit happens". And now we're bored and mad because we can't find fucking jobs, that's how the riots are going to start!

EDIT: sorry for that rant but as you can tell I'm a little pissed off about my situation in life and it's not like I'm the only one feeling this here.
Storm's a-brewin'
Everywhere

[Zav]

I don't know about that, a lot of people are pretty pissed about everything in general. I just got out of high school this summer and even my very conservative friends are starting to get very pissed off that we couldn't get jobs this summer and the school year is about to start for college. How are we supposed to pay for college when tuition has been raised and we couldn't even find a job during the summer? I don't even think I'll be able to go to school when the semester begins, I have no money to pay for classes and neither do my friends. We used to have a saying amongst ourselves that was a joke, we'd say "when we're all together and bored illegal shit happens". And now we're bored and mad because we can't find fucking jobs, that's how the riots are going to start!

EDIT: sorry for that rant but as you can tell I'm a little pissed off about my situation in life and it's not like I'm the only one feeling this here.
Unfortunately there's quite a jump between being angry at everything and having most of the 300+ million people in the U.S. realise that Capitalism and the State are even issues to be questioned and discussed.

[Le Socialiste]

I agree that it would most likely spring up in one or more cities, with Detroit and LA being close at the top. California has been hit pretty badly by the recession, you see quite a few more homeless and unemployed people in my area of the state than you might have seen pre-recession. Add that to the jump in police killings and brutality and you have a potentially explosive situation. One would think it's only a matter of time before the people here start voicing their grievances publicly and in the streets.

[tachosomoza]

I'd still watch the Rust Belt (Cleveland, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Allentown, etc). They've had almost 40 years for the anger to ferment.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

I was just looking up unemployment statistics, there are about 2.2 million unemployed in California as of June 2011...

[La Comédie Noire]

I don't know, but the United States doesn't really have an organized and institutionalized left that can play steam valve like some countries in Europe.

[Coach Trotsky]

I don't know, but the United States doesn't really have an organized and institutionalized left that can play steam valve like some countries in Europe.

The current "organized and insitutionalized left" apparently doesn't have any interest in advancing any of the mass struggles of our people in those countries where rebellions have arisen so far. Why should we expect in the USA they would do any different from the "sit it out" behavior of the UK Left?

It's time for the next revolutionary left!

[thesadmafioso]

The answer to this question is really dependent upon what criteria you apply to the term rebellion. If you are simply looking for the most likely sites for the nations next slew of riots, then any urban center would be a a possibility in the immediate future.

Of course, this isn't really to say that this will be an organized leftist rebellion so much as it will be a collection of looting and other activities which are not exactly revolutionary by their inherent nature. Without the unifying philosophical weaponry of Marxism, they really don't stand the slightest of a chance in moving beyond a temporary state of aimless revolt. And I'm not entirely sure that any party currently stands in a position to seize upon that momentum at the current moment. Though riots along the lines of what are being seen in Britain at the moment would be a welcome change of pace in the climate of American political discourse, they would not be much more than a foundation upon which much would need to be built upon for us to see the situation turn revolutionary. General malaise is a rather blunted weapon when the cause of it is muddled by a lack of class consciousness.

[gendoikari]

Question, comrades...If the rebellion comes to the United States, where do you think it's going to spark? My guess is the Midwest. Chicago, Saint Louis, Milwaukee, Detroit, Minneapolis are ripe.

Atlanta, Georgia.

[AnonymousOne]

Without the unifying philosophical weaponry of Marxism, they really don't stand the slightest of a chance in moving beyond a temporary state of aimless revolt.

What are you talking about? There have been several revolutions that have ocurred without a Marxist outlook and were well organized.

The Paris Commune, for example, was largely based off of Proudhon's ideas and an excellent article discussing how the Communards were Proudhonists and not Marxists can be found here: http://anarchism.pageabode.com/pjproudhon/proudhon-marx-and-the-paris-commune

There are other examples as well, the Diggers in England, Anarchist Catalonia etc. that were well organized and most certainly not "aimless" but had no basis in Marxist thought.

What the people need is an understanding of their situation, and realize that it's possible to change it. No one needs to read Capital or the Communist Manifesto to understand that Capitalism is screwing them over.

[thesadmafioso]

What are you talking about? There have been several revolutions that have ocurred without a Marxist outlook and were well organized.

The Paris Commune, for example, was largely based off of Proudhon's ideas and an excellent article discussing how the Communards were Proudhonists and not Marxists can be found here: http://anarchism.pageabode.com/pjproudhon/proudhon-marx-and-the-paris-commune

There are other examples as well, the Diggers in England, Anarchist Catalonia etc. that were well organized and most certainly not "aimless" but had no basis in Marxist thought.

What the people need is an understanding of their situation, and realize that it's possible to change it. No one needs to read Capital or the Communist Manifesto to understand that Capitalism is screwing them over.

And all of those were met with failure which resulted from structural faults which can be traced back to the insufficient contents of their philosophical basis, though I will exclude Catalonia on the grounds that Stalin killed it long before the fascists had a chance to try.

An understanding of the situation of late capitalism will result from an improved state of class consciousness, one which has been raised to levels of understanding only achievable when bolstered by the efforts of the vanguard party of the proletariat. The machinery of bourgeois hegemony will not miraculously disappear from the face of society, it shall need to be smashed by the party of the worker! Spontaneity will not be the savior of the revolution, as such a whimsical concept ignores the materialist conception of history and all scientific analysis of such matters.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Unfortunately there's quite a jump between being angry at everything and having most of the 300+ million people in the U.S. realise that Capitalism and the State are even issues to be questioned and discussed.
You don't need 300+ million people to burn down the police station and the people don't need anti-capitalist ideologies either to kick shit off. I hated the police as much as I do now when I was a right-winger and wouldn't have minded running battles with them.

All you need for rebellion is enough pissed off people that are willing to fight and smash things and even most of my conservative friends realize the police are our enemy...

[gendoikari]

You don't need 300+ million people to burn down the police station and the people don't need anti-capitalist ideologies either to kick shit off. I hated the police as much as I do now when I was a right-winger and wouldn't have minded running battles with them.

All you need for rebellion is enough pissed off people that are willing to fight and smash things and even most of my conservative friends realize the police are our enemy...

ah another former right-wing conservative. Were you like me born into a highly conservative christian family,...... only to you know... have a thought, that lead to another thought that.... lead to understanding everything you had been taught was wrong. For me the tipping point was when i was about ten, or able to actually read a good bit more than one fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish.

[apawllo]

Wherever adequate organization occurs. People are pissed off at the system all over the country. What's missing is not the location, but the source through which to express that frustration.

[Leftsolidarity]

ah another former right-wing conservative. Were you like me born into a highly conservative christian family,...... only to you know... have a thought, that lead to another thought that.... lead to understanding everything you had been taught was wrong. For me the tipping point was when i was about ten, or able to actually read a good bit more than one fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish.

Off topic but I was the same way haha

I'm born into a family of right-wing conservative christians and thought I was being rebellious by becoming an anarcho-capitalist :laugh:

Then I realized that was a bunch of shit and here I am today.

[AnonymousOne]

And all of those were met with failure which resulted from structural faults which can be traced back to the insufficient contents of their philosophical basis,

[Citation Needed]
Such as? Please be concrete with criticism, it is difficult for me to respond to vague language.


An understanding of the situation of late capitalism will result from an improved state of class consciousness, one which has been raised to levels of understanding only achievable when bolstered by the efforts of the vanguard party of the proletariat.

[Citation Needed]

Why is that the case, why can only a vanguard party raise class conciousness?


The machinery of bourgeois hegemony will not miraculously disappear from the face of society, it shall need to be smashed by the party of the worker!

I think you mean smashed by the workers.


Spontaneity will not be the savior of the revolution, as such a whimsical concept ignores the materialist conception of history and all scientific analysis of such matters.

I never said it would be, all I said was that not all revolutions are based on Marxist thought. There have been several which have ocurred which weren't based on Marxism, but were still revolutionary and anti-capitalist.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Probably Des Moines.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

ah another former right-wing conservative. Were you like me born into a highly conservative christian family,...... only to you know... have a thought, that lead to another thought that.... lead to understanding everything you had been taught was wrong. For me the tipping point was when i was about ten, or able to actually read a good bit more than one fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish.
Not really, my parents have never really been political or religious, although my dad shares a lot of my views I've figured out. We used to go to Sunday school when we were children but I think that was more because they wanted a baby sitter for a hour. The first time I picked up the Bible was when I read all the books in my house and it was the only one left in my house to read. I got caught up in the fear after 9/11 for a while, that's basically when I started being conservative...

[thesadmafioso]

[Citation Needed]
Such as? Please be concrete with criticism, it is difficult for me to respond to vague language.

My remarks were made perfectly clear in their original form, but if you require further elaboration I would have no issue with providing such. The workers who revolted in the course of the Paris Commune did so without the discipline of a revolutionary party, which rendered them defenseless to disorganization and fracture. They were unable to take the necessary actions to solidify their power due to a lack of structure in their practical actions, and thus they fell to the wayside of history.

Had their energy and momentum been harnessed and focused by a party armed with the potent philosophy of Marxism and the vanguard party, their efforts would of resulted in a much more desirable outcome.


[Citation Needed]

Why is that the case, why can only a vanguard party raise class conciousness?

The foundation of class consciousness already exist in many nations which are host to late capitalist development, but in many cases it still needs to reach a more readily apparent stage wherein the inequities of capitalist society can be discerned with a greater ease to the average worker. Regardless of this, the vanguard party still bears the burden of overseeing the dissemination of revolutionary thought and theory among the worker. It is not that the vanguard party raises class consciousness necessarily, so much as it focuses, refines, and builds upon that class consciousness, aiming it towards the ends of the proletariat.


I think you mean smashed by the workers.

The vanguard party is an organ of workers power, the two are equatable more so than not. Often times it is made up of revolutionaries with a more developed level of political understanding, thus better outfitting its members to agitate on the behalf of the workers.


I never said it would be, all I said was that not all revolutions are based on Marxist thought. There have been several which have ocurred which weren't based on Marxism, but were still revolutionary and anti-capitalist.

Yes, but those revolutions are not capable of bringing about a complete synthesis of class and a full transference of the means of production to the proletariat. Only Marxism is in possession of the demanded theory and philosophy to equip the worker with the implements through which their ascension to power may be realized. The follies of anarchism and other deviations from this theory will only lead the efforts of the worker astray from its true aims.

[RedScare]

Baltimore is pretty rough these days, lots of poverty, crime, and unemployment. Certain sections of Washington DC are the same. However DC has been doing a lot of gentrification in the last few decades, so there's less urban poverty than there used to be, instead they've pushed the poor people out into the surrounding counties, mostly in Maryland, including mine. Unfortunately there isn't much organizing being done, so I dunno.

[Pretty Flaco]

The midwest historically has been the bastion for union activity in the united states, so I wouldn't be surprised if labor unrest emerged again in larger scales over here. Not to mention that houses are foreclosing left and right and jobs are disappearing all over the place. A lot of people don't know what to do. Things are a little better than a few years ago, but if they get worse I can't even imagine...

[Os Cangaceiros]

Alaska

[the fencing revolutionary]

Well im pretty sure it won't be here in the south

[Ocean Seal]

As of now, the most revolutionary sector of the USA is the West Coast. San Francisco, LA, Oakland, Portland, and Seattle seem like places where the revolution would be ripe. NY is still a long ways from being revolutionary though. Fawkes pretty much summed up the problems in Manhattan, but the revolutionary situation in New York is pretty bleak, most people just try to move away, and gentrification goes pretty much unchallenged.

[chegitz guevara]

It's not going to happen where you think. I have no idea where it will start.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

It's not going to happen where you think. I have no idea where it will start.

I guess Sarasota is out of the running then? I was going to say Bethel, Vermont but then no one there would notice.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

Atlanta, Georgia.
When the belt line really goes full steam ahead, tons of working people will be pushed out through gentrification. Or, with the current state of things all over the city, their houses and apartments will be demolished to make way for "luxury condos" that never get sold.

Like what's been happening on the west side ... luxury condos in "West Midtown" to make it sound palatable to rich people who associate Midtown with wealth... Nobody buys them. Net result ... working class put out of their apartments and houses, replaced by unoccupied luxury condos.

[RadioRaheem84]

My bet is on Los Angeles

definitely not in the South.

[Susurrus]

There are other examples as well, the Diggers in England, Anarchist Catalonia etc. that were well organized and most certainly not "aimless" but had no basis in Marxist thought.

Well, anarchist catalonia was at least influenced by Marxism.

[La Comédie Noire]

My question is how to bridge the divide between the white, black, and latino working classes?

[bcbm]

My question is how to bridge the divide between the white, black, and latino working classes?

loot some foot lockers and h&m's and fight the cops together

[PC LOAD LETTER]

My bet is on Los Angeles

definitely not in the South.
Have you forgotten Martin Luther King, Jr.?

[CAleftist]

Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Here's a thing I've been thinking about, if we started to have riots and rebellions in the United States how would the pigs react? Because I have a feeling if what happened in Britain happened in let's say L.A. the first night the pigs would have pulled out the rubber bullets and tear gas. The second night if it's not suppressed you would see armored vehicles in the streets or some shit like that and pretty soon you got the National Guard firing live rounds.

[CAleftist]

Here's a thing I've been thinking about, if we started to have riots and rebellions in the United States how would the pigs react? Because I have a feeling if what happened in Britain happened in let's say L.A. the first night the pigs would have pulled out the rubber bullets and tear gas. The second night if it's not suppressed you would see armored vehicles in the streets or some shit like that and pretty soon you got the National Guard firing live rounds.

They would crack down here, and they would crack down hard.

This is America we're talking about, home to the largest concentration of capitalist wealth and power anywhere in the world.

[bcbm]

Here's a thing I've been thinking about, if we started to have riots and rebellions in the United States how would the pigs react? Because I have a feeling if what happened in Britain happened in let's say L.A. the first night the pigs would have pulled out the rubber bullets and tear gas. The second night if it's not suppressed you would see armored vehicles in the streets or some shit like that and pretty soon you got the National Guard firing live rounds.

look at la or benton harbor or bay area or a number of other places in recent history... the pigs aren't omnipotent and especially if shit is spread out over a large area have a hard time acting. and anyway if they want to get rough a lot more people in the states have the means to get rough back than in the uk if you catch my meaning

[RedTrackWorker]

Three different posters said it wouldn't start in the south. Why?

There's no historical analogy to this situation, but the thing to remember isn't MLK as one poster said but the struggle that made him famous: the Montgomery bus boycott, which was in the main an working class action organized by the working class with a Black middle class preacher spokesperson and leadership that mass meetings pushed to the take certain actions. Then you had Robert Williams organizing effective, working-class based armed self defense in South Carolina a couple of years later that won gains for Black people there. A lot of that lead to the Memphis sanitation strike in 1968--workers who are under attack right now in Memphis (sadly, many of them the same workers as in 1968 because they have no real retirement plan).

And today? The south is even more industrialized and urbanized than then. The organized and institutional 'left' and labor movement is weak in the south but the objective power of the workers, poor, the youth and all those looking to fight oppression is not weak and they are not short of grievances to fight.

Some of the biggest struggles in the late twenties (when the labor movement was being almost destroyed in this country) and then the early years after the depression were in the south (textile workers and sharecroppers). Leftists tend to remember the three general strikes of 1934 that won. Those strikes won largely because they were lead by socialists who were subjectively revolutionary--whereas many other strikes failed across the country. But the biggest strike was that of the southern textile workers who forced their union to call an industry-wide national strike.

Again, neither period (late twenties, early thirties or late fifties, early sixties) is analogous to now (both had a higher level of struggle than now in the U.S.!) but southern workers and youth and those fighting oppression have often been in the forefront of struggle in this country's history and I don't know why people are so sure they won't be again.

[Luís Henrique]

The question is not where it is going to be, but whether we are organised for it.

Luís Henrique

[Fawkes]

As of now, the most revolutionary sector of the USA is the West Coast. San Francisco, LA, Oakland, Portland, and Seattle seem like places where the revolution would be ripe. NY is still a long ways from being revolutionary though. Fawkes pretty much summed up the problems in Manhattan, but the revolutionary situation in New York is pretty bleak, most people just try to move away, and gentrification goes pretty much unchallenged.

It goes unchallenged until half the city turns into Brownsville. Bloomberg has rezoned practically the entire city, and the stratification between neighborhoods is intensifying as more and more people's homes/workplaces are destroyed to make way for luxury condos/corporate offices (Williamsburg, Jamaica, Harlem). Yeah, a lot of people may be trying to ignore it now, but pretty soon the entire city is going to be unfilled luxury condos next to impoverished ghettos teeming with trigger-happy cops.


Edit: Just to clarify, I see New York (mostly the four outer boroughs) potentially being the site of major rioting in the somewhat near future (<5 years), but I don't think the organizational infrastructure or consciousness that would make that anger and frustration revolutionary is in place yet.

[tracher999]

no left in the usa fuck that check raise the fist:rolleyes:

[Coach Trotsky]

Here's a thing I've been thinking about, if we started to have riots and rebellions in the United States how would the pigs react? Because I have a feeling if what happened in Britain happened in let's say L.A. the first night the pigs would have pulled out the rubber bullets and tear gas. The second night if it's not suppressed you would see armored vehicles in the streets or some shit like that and pretty soon you got the National Guard firing live rounds.

In the USA, they WILL shoot at us with live rounds.
Here, if we rebel, we're "enemy combatants". Understand what is meant by that.

[Coach Trotsky]

They would crack down here, and they would crack down hard.

This is America we're talking about, home to the largest concentration of capitalist wealth and power anywhere in the world.

Indeed, so we'll have to fight back harder here as well. Every step they take, we have to spread and double our offensive effort against this system, aiming to not only inflict damage but also to conquer power. In America, it won't stay at the riot stage very long. It must go quickly to all-out mass militant organized fightback, independent organs of power ("dual power" established), armed insurrection and revolutionary civil war.

[Red And Black Sabot]

Atlanta, Georgia.

So two people on here actually think so?
I have to agree with a lot of folks here saying "not in the south".
From my experience, "Revolutionaries" in Atlanta aren't really good at much other than providing a platform for democrats, holding hands, and marching down side walks. The few radicals who are down to get scrappy with the cops (almost entirely younger and rarely taken seriously because they aren't in collage) get noses turned up at them and dismissed right off the bat.
Last year when the state scholarship was being cut, instead of anything confrontational, the students around here organized depressing as hell "funerals for the hope" and etc. A few banner drops by the more radical ones but still a stretch to think these kids are going to be street fighting the police tomorrow.
I go to protests out of state and act up but when it happens here in Atlanta, you can't even get a "mother fucker" out toward a cop without some liberal passing as a leftist "correcting" your behavior. Now, I understand that the folks rioting in the UK aren't the "organized left" but I feel that the actions of anarchists at the milbank tower and etc have to an extent informed these riots. There isn't anything even kind of like that happening here.
There are plenty of pissed off people in Atlanta. I'm one of them. Plenty of pissed off young people too but the energy and willingness to go all out just doesn't exist here other than a handful of young insurrectionary type anarchists. Most of the young hipsters, punks, and other poor youth are entirely apathetic.
There's one exception maybe that I see... While the majority of this city is being or has been horribly gentrified, the west end of this city, old fourth ward and etc is terribly poor, very heavily policed, and predominantly black so I can maybe see that erupting. The police on those sides of town are horrible and it's not just because of the road blocks. Just a few years ago they killed a 93 year old woman named Kathryn Johnson in her own home. I went with a group to confront the police at a memorial those pig bastards were holding for her but there were no more than 10 of us who showed up.
Also, as a result of an Arizona copy cat law attacking the immigrants in this state, I see plenty of reason to be angry there but a lot of that anger and frustration is being funneled by a shitty reformist liberal organization called GLAHR. They hold huge rallies and marches. Not to long ago there was one I was able to attend where tens of thousands of immigrants and supporters came out. It was awesome seeing that many people in the streets but I can't fail to mention that the peace marshals for that march were trained by the department of justice and at the end of the day, GLAHR takes genuine anger uses it to push reform or tries to get [email protected] democrats elected. That seems to be their solution and they don't offer much outside of that.
(as a poor pissed off young latino, I gotta say... fuck them) Some of the immigrant youth have been getting arrested blocking traffic and etc however these actions aren't spontaneous at all. They're all very well organized with tuns of lawyers and human rights orgs behind the actions. Awesome actions to say the least but again... a stretch to think that this activity could ever somehow point to insurrectionary potential.
Either way... I wish it were true but I don't see Atlanta being a city where this sort of situation could erupt. At least not now anyway.

[bcbm]

In the USA, they WILL shoot at us with live rounds.

i think it would have to get very serious before that happened and if it did happen i think it would almost certainly drive the situation in a much worse direction for the forces of order.


Here, if we rebel, we're "enemy combatants". Understand what is meant by that.

not really

[tachosomoza]

I do find it pathetic that we've let bourgeois influenced ivory tower social liberals passing as leftists hijack shit.

[Decolonize The Left]

In the USA, they WILL shoot at us with live rounds.
Here, if we rebel, we're "enemy combatants". Understand what is meant by that.

No, they won't.

If there's a riot in a city, the absolute last thing you want to do as police is shoot the fucking protesters. That makes more riots, in every city. That mobilizes a massive amount of people, including people who otherwise weren't that pissed off but then they see civilians getting shot and they want to say something.

The police won't use live ammo, stop dramatizing the situation. What they will do if things get out of control is call in the National Guard for certain areas.

As for the OP, riots in the US won't start in any specific place because of the context of the city - they will start when a single incident catalyzes a community into action. This will then spread into the cities mentioned in this thread (Detroit, LA, NO, NY, SF bay area, Chicago, etc...). It may be that the incident occurs in a major city, but the incident is what's important. The ground-work has been laid by the system for a while now, it's only a matter of time.

- August

[KurtFF8]

This thread helps explain why there are 20,000 Left wing groups in the United States

[the last donut of the night]

east coast hold it down

[Dunk]

Wherever it begins, it's going to spread. I don't know about you guys, but there is so much anger here in Northeastern Ohio.

[black magick hustla]

sometimes my death-instinct wishes back for an era like the matewan-massacre when miners basically massacred detective agency scum invirginia thebraveminers of the coal wars are heroesofthe proletariat

[tachosomoza]

Dunk, people are angry all over the Midwest, especially in the inner cities.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

No, they won't.

If there's a riot in a city, the absolute last thing you want to do as police is shoot the fucking protesters. That makes more riots, in every city. That mobilizes a massive amount of people, including people who otherwise weren't that pissed off but then they see civilians getting shot and they want to say something.

The police won't use live ammo, stop dramatizing the situation. What they will do if things get out of control is call in the National Guard for certain areas.

As for the OP, riots in the US won't start in any specific place because of the context of the city - they will start when a single incident catalyzes a community into action. This will then spread into the cities mentioned in this thread (Detroit, LA, NO, NY, SF bay area, Chicago, etc...). It may be that the incident occurs in a major city, but the incident is what's important. The ground-work has been laid by the system for a while now, it's only a matter of time.

- August
But the police/military have shot and killed people in riots and riots didn't expand to other areas. That's just history man, look what happened in L.A. in '92, Detroit in '67, etc, etc.

[gendoikari]

But the police/military have shot and killed people in riots and riots didn't expand to other areas. That's just history man, look what happened in L.A. in '92, Detroit in '67, etc, etc.

Yeah or you know.... kent state.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Yeah or you know.... kent state.
Or The Great Railroad Strike of 1877, or...
That could go on for a while, the police and military in the U.S. have a long history of killing protesters/rioters/strikers.

[Coach Trotsky]

But the police/military have shot and killed people in riots and riots didn't expand to other areas. That's just history man, look what happened in L.A. in '92, Detroit in '67, etc, etc.

Look what they send troops to do in the Third World. As globalization increases, as competition accelerates in this system, as more are pauperized and/or shut out from any chance of upward mobility, and austerity and police terror comes more and more to characterize sociey's "new normal", why would the US empire use live rounds against those who rebel, just as their proxy regimes and sellout national bourgeoisies in the Third World do?

Comrades, have no illusions in the US ruling elites' "freedom" and "democracy". They will take that away---every shred of it--- the second they think they need to for the sake of their class interests. The precendents are already there. American citizens have be declared 'enemy combatants' (meaning they have even less legal standing and rights then prisoners of war who fought for foreign armies). Why couldn't the rulers of this society sent rebels off to some Guantanamo Bay or Abu Gharib or even to some pro-US Third World tyrant's torture prison? It's all been done, while the Left was snoozing and trying to play nice. Does the US Constitution prevent this? Hell no it doesn't. Does "international law" or the "international community" stop it? No way..."it ain't fascism when we do it", as the saying goes.

That being said, remember that our enemies are mere mortal human beings, and thus they can be defeated, despite their tech, despite their weapons, despite their wealth. We have the potential power to overthrow them and eradicate their system in every corner of this planet, but few believe that...even few Leftists really believe that.

[o well this is ok I guess]

The question is not where it is going to be, but whether we are organised for it.

Luís Henrique I think the better question is how we're organizing it.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Or The Great Railroad Strike of 1877, or...

That one actually initially spread, after about 20 people were slaughtered in Pennsylvania by the state militia.

[A Marxist Historian]

The midwest historically has been the bastion for union activity in the united states, so I wouldn't be surprised if labor unrest emerged again in larger scales over here. Not to mention that houses are foreclosing left and right and jobs are disappearing all over the place. A lot of people don't know what to do. Things are a little better than a few years ago, but if they get worse I can't even imagine...

The Bay Area where I am would be logical, as Oakland never did have the experience of a mass futile ghetto explosion, as we had the Panthers instead, much better. And you have stuff going on in the Bay Area right now.

OTOH, the Oscar Grant thing fizzled out and the local ruling class is expecting something and has prepared, so maybe not. Plus you have more reformist buffers against popular revolt here than elsewhere.

It's really hard to tell, but the Midwest might be a good guess, as with a black president and long memories of just how futile ghetto rebellions were in the past, maybe it will be ground down screwed over white workers and youth who explode first.

But the sad thing is if it's just another leaderless, programless explosion of mass rage, like what is happening in England now and what has happened so many times in America before, it won't accomplish anything.

You don't need a revolutionary party or even a revolutionary movement for the people to explode against their oppressors.

You do need one for the people to win.

-M.H.-

[DEPAVER]

I could care less where just as long as it happens. Baltimore has a high population of disenfranchised people. Detroit. Don't rule out Memphis. Things are pretty bad in Memphis and getting worse. The only place I wouldn't see it happening is Texas unless it's the right wing that purposefully starts it so they can "thin the herd."

[gendoikari]

Or The Great Railroad Strike of 1877, or...
That could go on for a while, the police and military in the U.S. have a long history of killing protesters/rioters/strikers.

at least at homestead they fought back.

[agnixie]

It could be the south. Sort of.

The problem of the south is the same as that in the north and west, except with the republican party instead of the democratic party - a lot of the rank and file votes for the republicans with the idea that they deserve welfare and shit and the republicans will preserve theirs, just not that of the lazy undeserving bastards (who are everyone else on it).

Additional part of the problem: you have heavy media campaigns to ensure that things get immediately labeled as socialist or anarchist as if it was a justifiable kneejerk reaction, and it works, as usual. Then of course you have the race-based populism, which ties into the lazy undeserving poors: yes they're poor, but the only hard-working poors are white, trufax (hence David Duke getting most of the Louisiana white vote whenever he runs for office).

And the problem for the elite there? You have plenty of places where, when not labeled as socialist or anarchist or communist, ideas like workplace democracy, land reforms of some sort, especially against big agricorps, because the poor in the country know enough people essentially expropriated by big business, big agro or big government, the problem is it always ends up being "big government" that takes the blame because of media pressures, those ideas resonate with a lot of people. If you can make a platform for land reform aimed at poor blacks and poor rednecks in the southern countryside, and manage to survive the media onslaught? You could probably grab some huge support. Except here's the hiccup: US media is controlled by 5 families, all with a vested interest in the maintenance of the neoliberal system.

That said, for now, I agree the rust belt might be the place it would start, with maybe California and the mid Atlantic (NY to VA, probably skipping over NJ :p ) following soon or launching it, depending. But it could still be the south; the ideas that gave us some great socialists coming from Appalachia and the Ozarks are still around.

Besides only half of America even votes, it's not like electoral results tell anything. If anything, there's could be a huge festering mass of socialists in the country and we wouldn't realize it because it's given up and they think they're alone to think that way. Mass apathy is great for the powers that be, as great as the threat of repression.

[A Marxist Historian]

I could care less where just as long as it happens. Baltimore has a high population of disenfranchised people. Detroit. Don't rule out Memphis. Things are pretty bad in Memphis and getting worse. The only place I wouldn't see it happening is Texas unless it's the right wing that purposefully starts it so they can "thin the herd."

Demographically speaking, Texas is headed to a minority non-white population pretty soon.

So maybe it will start in Texas.

-M.H.-

[Coach Trotsky]

Demographically speaking, Texas is headed to a minority non-white population pretty soon.

So maybe it will start in Texas.

-M.H.-

There is a majority non-white population in Mexico...so what's keeping revolt from happening there? Why do so many Mexicans flee North instead of revolting? It ain't as simple as "whites are reactionary conservatives and non-whites are inherently revolutionary/progressive", except in the Leftie public activist playbook it seems.

[A Marxist Historian]

There is a majority non-white population in Mexico...so what's keeping revolt from happening there? Why do so many Mexicans flee North instead of revolting? It ain't as simple as "whites are reactionary conservatives and non-whites are inherently revolutionary/progressive", except in the Leftie public activist playbook it seems.

There have been a bunch of pretty big revolts in Mexico over the past decade or two. They all lost. The working people have suffered defeats and are a bit demoralized.

But the tinder is piled up in Mexico even higher than in the US. You could have an explosion at any time in Mexico that might make anything in the US look small scale.

They're making it pretty hard to flee Mexico for the USA right now, as you may have noticed, so that safety valve is being choked off.

One thing holding things back in Texas is the ever larger Mexican population of Texas thinking that, as bad as things are in Texas, at least they aren't in Mexico anymore. But the ever more vicious assaults on "illegal aliens" in America could push them over the edge. Despite his liberal rhetoric, Obama has deported far more people than Bush Jr. managed to.

Remember, in 2006 you had a nationwide general strike of undocumented Mexican workers in America on Mayday, with over a million walking out, with almost no organization. In sheer numbers, probably the biggest general strike in American history.

-M.H.-

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

at least at homestead they fought back.

They fought back in 1877 too.. Also in all the various West Virginia Coal Wars, the Battle of Blair Mountain, the Coal Creek War, etc., etc., etc.

As to the OP, New York is now preparing for London-style outbreaks now:

NYPD Preparing for London Riots to Cross the Pond (http://www.thelmagazine.com/TheMeasure/archives/2011/08/16/nypd-preparing-for-london-riots-to-cross-the-pond)

[Coach Trotsky]

PLEASE read this post:
http://www.revleft.com/vb/august-uprising-britain-t160007/index.html?t=160007

[agnixie]

They fought back in 1877 too.. Also in all the various West Virginia Coal Wars, the Battle of Blair Mountain, the Coal Creek War, etc., etc., etc.

As to the OP, New York is now preparing for London-style outbreaks now:

NYPD Preparing for London Riots to Cross the Pond (http://www.thelmagazine.com/TheMeasure/archives/2011/08/16/nypd-preparing-for-london-riots-to-cross-the-pond)

The far right blogosphere is trying very hard to link the organizing groups behind the calls for occupation and general strikes this fall to Acorn. On top of their scaremongering about an anarchist and communist presence (okay that bit is true, a bunch of the organizing groups are, and Adbusters has been inviting more anarchist authors to move away from centrist liberal stuff).

[Os Cangaceiros]

There is a majority non-white population in Mexico...so what's keeping revolt from happening there? Why do so many Mexicans flee North instead of revolting? It ain't as simple as "whites are reactionary conservatives and non-whites are inherently revolutionary/progressive", except in the Leftie public activist playbook it seems.

I think part of why more activity isn't happening in Mexico (at least in some areas, anyway) is that people are being held down by both legal and extralegal means, kind of like Colombia. I think the last big revolt was in Oaxaca back in 2006. And from the beginning of 2007 to the present day upwards of 30,000 people have been killed, and a new Mexican "patriot act" being enacted.