Verizon strike for a broader issue

[RGacky3]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/07/workers-put-verizon-on-ho_n_920616.html

This is the future of labor, class struggle is back, finally workers are hitting back. Everyone should support this strike, I think unions taking a class struggle line and organizing white collar and service workers is what will make a difference.

[RGacky3]

One thing I wish that unions would start doing is stop focusing on trying to be "reasonable" and start really fighting hard and demanding more.

[Waltraute]

wonderful

[RGacky3]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/12/verizon-strike-fbi-union_n_925159.html

Yup, now the cops are involved, because of "sabotage," which I would be very pleased if it happened and they got away with it, I like how they call it an "unpatriotic" act, which just lends to the idea which corporations want, that they ARE America.

Everyone in the US should be actively in solidarity with the strikers.

[danyboy27]

The rich folks dont fallow the instruction manual, why should we?

[danyboy27]

in such dire economical situation, it take a lot of courage to strike.

those folks deserve a lot of respect.

[RGacky3]

Your right danny, labor activists should stop trying to look "friendly" and "fair" they need to start playing hard, and it looks like they are FINALLY (at least some of them) are learning what the IWW learned decades ago, if you want to win, you have to punch hard and don't stop.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

There are two threads on this in Workers' Struggles:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/45-000-verizon-t159275/index.html

http://www.revleft.com/vb/fbi-probing-sabatoge-t159537/index.html

[danyboy27]

Your right danny, labor activists should stop trying to look "friendly" and "fair" they need to start playing hard, and it looks like they are FINALLY (at least some of them) are learning what the IWW learned decades ago, if you want to win, you have to punch hard and don't stop.

Its all about the plan, it was always like that, always will until capitalism is abolished

if you fallow exactly what the law say nothing gonna happen beccause its somehow part of the plan, its when you start venturing in those blurry zones then the folks that effforts finally pay off.

Capitalism evolved in such a manner, even strikes these day are part of the plan, if it wasnt it wouldnt be legal and regulated.

[RGacky3]

yeah, but I'm restricted :P

[RGacky3]

http://socialistworker.org/2011/08/21/union-retreat-at-verizon

Its kind of a shame, looks like the unions are following the old like "we better just settle for less, since we arn't that strong." The reason you arn't that strong is because you keep giving up more and more and allowing the corporations to take more and more, if you fight and stick by your guns you'll gain support, if unions don't fight for the workers, what good are they?

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

One thing I wish that unions would start doing is stop focusing on trying to be "reasonable" and start really fighting hard and demanding more.Nothing new...

"Firstly. A general rise in the rate of wages would result in a fall of the general rate of profit, but, broadly speaking, not affect the prices of commodities.

"Secondly. The general tendency of capitalist production is not to raise, but to sink the average standard of wages.

"Thirdly. Trades Unions work well as centers of resistance against the encroachments of capital. They fail partially from an injudicious use of their power. They fail generally from limiting themselves to a guerrilla war against the effects of the existing system, instead of simultaneously trying to change it, instead of using their organized forces as a lever for the final emancipation of the working class that is to say the ultimate abolition of the wages system." - Marx, 1865.

[Baseball]

It seems that the strike has ended- at least temporarily.

The problem, of course remains: The value of the labor which the strikers provide- landline services- is declining. This is because people are switching to the use of cellphone, computers ect. for communication. This is not Verizon's fault; the company is simply responding to changes in customer demand

And the support by the socialists here for the strike is understandable- but it also demonstrates a structural weakness of socialism. If socialism is unable to adapt to changing circumstances, then clearly its not a benefit to people- after all, it would make no sense for the socialist community to demand that labor in a lesser needed field be treated the same as workers in a more needed field. That would be unjust to the latter workers.

[#FF0000]

what

[RGacky3]

The problem, of course remains: The value of the labor which the strikers provide- landline services- is declining. This is because people are switching to the use of cellphone, computers ect. for communication. This is not Verizon's fault; the company is simply responding to changes in customer demand


Broadband.


And the support by the socialists here for the strike is understandable- but it also demonstrates a structural weakness of socialism. If socialism is unable to adapt to changing circumstances, then clearly its not a benefit to people- after all, it would make no sense for the socialist community to demand that labor in a lesser needed field be treated the same as workers in a more needed field. That would be unjust to the latter workers.

it has nothing to do with that.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

It seems that the strike has ended- at least temporarily.

The problem, of course remains: The value of the labor which the strikers provide- landline services- is declining. This is because people are switching to the use of cellphone, computers ect. for communication. This is not Verizon's fault; the company is simply responding to changes in customer demand

And the support by the socialists here for the strike is understandable- but it also demonstrates a structural weakness of socialism. If socialism is unable to adapt to changing circumstances, then clearly its not a benefit to people- after all, it would make no sense for the socialist community to demand that labor in a lesser needed field be treated the same as workers in a more needed field. That would be unjust to the latter workers.

The social value of a job is not correlated with it's socioeconomic status under capitalism. Otherwise street cleaners and refuse truck drivers would be treated like royalty, while the bankers, CEOs and others who make a lucrative career out of fucking up with our money would be dragged through the streets in chains.

[Baseball]

The social value of a job is not correlated with it's socioeconomic status under capitalism. Otherwise street cleaners and refuse truck drivers would be treated like royalty, while the bankers, CEOs and others who make a lucrative career out of fucking up with our money would be dragged through the streets in chains.


I am not sure what this has to do with how socialism responds to the declining value to the community of a particular field of labor.

[Catma]

The problem, of course remains: The value of the labor which the strikers provide- landline services- is declining. This is because people are switching to the use of cellphone, computers ect. for communication. This is not Verizon's fault; the company is simply responding to changes in customer demand

And the support by the socialists here for the strike is understandable- but it also demonstrates a structural weakness of socialism. If socialism is unable to adapt to changing circumstances, then clearly its not a benefit to people- after all, it would make no sense for the socialist community to demand that labor in a lesser needed field be treated the same as workers in a more needed field. That would be unjust to the latter workers.

Verizon is split into divisions, with some workers unionized and some not. The landline workers are generally union, the others not.

Cordless comms require nearly as much wiring as corded ones. The land workers maintain the lines all the way up to the cell towers, at which point other divisions take over.

This also has the convenient effect of letting Verizon book all the COSTS associated with maintaining the land lines which support wireless comms as part of the landline division, while all the revenues/profits from wireless are of course booked to the non-union wireless division.

It's much more complicated than you make it sound and you have to take into account the history of the telecomms industry as well as the internal workings of Verizon and all parties involved. Basically, there have been many points of opportunity for the (generally more powerful) bosses to continually corner the workers and union and make the situation appear how they want it to, ie favorable to their image.