Firefly

[caramelpence]

Discuss.

[Rooster]

It's awful. You can't have everyone being Han Solo because that means no one is Han Solo.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

I enjoy watching it. I like the mixture of cultures. Its too bad it wasn't continued longer. The presupposed future combination of US and Chinese capitalism is interesting and not implausible. Olaf Stapledon had this scenario in his far future "First and Last Men".(I think it was in this novel).

The North American "Old West", a South Asian style courtesan, characters breaking into atonal Mandarin, pirates fighting against an oppressive tyranny,strong female characters, can't beat that.

One episode I felt a bit uncomfortable with. The crew comes to a planet roughly based on the Confederate States. Slavery is taken for granted. Inarra, the courtesan likes it there and falls in love with one of the slave owning aristos (who is later killed in a duel). This is repulsive.There are hints in Firefly of ex-Confederate bushwackers. A bit troubling but overall a good show,

The movie, Serenity was a disappointment.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

It's awful. You can't have everyone being Han Solo because that means no one is Han Solo.

Mal is Han Solo. Firefly actually could be better than it is but the character portrayal is much deeper than Star Wars.Just in my opinion, of course.

[Decolonize The Left]

Firefly was a fantastic mini-series. It's absolutely the only non-anime to capture space cowboys in a remotely good fashion.

I also highly recommend the movie Serenity which goes deeper into the reever plot line. But don't watch the movie until you've watched the whole series.


It's awful. You can't have everyone being Han Solo because that means no one is Han Solo.

What??? Everything isn't Star Wars??!? Aaaggggghhhhhh my brrrraaaaiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnn......

- August

[Susurrus]

One episode I felt a bit uncomfortable with. The crew comes to a planet roughly based on the Confederate States. Slavery is taken for granted. Inarra, the courtesan likes it there and falls in love with one of the slave owning aristos (who is later killed in a duel). This is repulsive.There are hints in Firefly of ex-Confederate bushwackers. A bit troubling but overall a good show.

That episode goes out of its way to condemn slavery and show that the aristos are all assholes.


That said though, the show is basically a right libertarian's fantasy(flying though space with your small business trying to fight the evil big federal government as an independent voter).

I still like it though. Better writing than most shows.

[Quail]

Firefly was awesome, really enjoyed watching it. It's a shame it's only one short series. I thought Serenity was good, but it was kind of sad because so many characters died.

[khad]

Horrible with even worse racial politics. Glad it got canceled.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Horrible with even worse racial politics. Glad it got canceled.

Thanks for sharing! What is your preference, if any, in terms of science fiction?

[khad]

Thanks for sharing! What is your preference, if any, in terms of science fiction?
And I guess I can only thank you having typical western tastes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_to_Be_a_God

Epic rant about firefly (half right and half lulz):
http://users.livejournal.com/_allecto_/34718.html

But mostly, I just hate Joss Whedon's stupid, derivative writing and his stultifyingly self-conscious liberalism.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

I do like the Strugartsky brothers and I intend to read more.I didn't know was "Its Hard To Be A God" was made into a film.

I don't know if I'd agree w/the LJ blogger but that's a whole 'nother thread.

Classic Soviet TV was far better than anything the US produced. Its not science fiction but "Seventeen Moments of Spring" is a masterpiece.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventeen_Moments_of_Spring

As far as films go I prefer classic Italian and French cinema-Rossi, Bressard, Bertellucci, Pasolini, Godard, etc.

Happy now?


Firefly has flaws but isn't bad writing for American TV.

What do people think of Outcasts?

[Il Medico]

I loved the show, its a shame it got cancelled.

[Commissar Rykov]

And I guess I can only thank you having typical western tastes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_to_Be_a_God

Epic rant about firefly (half right and half lulz):
http://users.livejournal.com/_allecto_/34718.html

But mostly, I just hate Joss Whedon's stupid, derivative writing and his stultifyingly self-conscious liberalism.

I want my braincells back after reading that rant. I have never seen the term raped abused more than that it makes some of the Online Gaming Community seem calm.

[Bitter Ashes]

I miss firefly

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Firefly is neo-liberal propaganda. No one uses an AK-47. There are no favorable references to the Red Army. And you lot eat it up!

[maskerade]

Love it. Though I get the feeling that I, like many others, only really like it so much because it was cancelled.

Damn I wish I was a space cowboy. Or a space pirate.

[khad]

Firefly has flaws but isn't bad writing for American TV.

Joss Whedon a good writer; that's a laugh. I have yet to see anything by him that rises above the tawdry sentimentality that you and your hipster fans can't help but love. A quick google search will point out more than enough of his plot cliches, many of which involve women getting humiliated/killed. The fact that he keeps rehashing these themes shows how little he has in his creative repertoire.

http://www.stephenbooth.org/lesbiancliche.htm
http://www.themarysue.com/reconsidering-the-feminism-of-joss-whedon/3/

[Rss]

Love it. Though I get the feeling that I, like many others, only really like it so much because it was cancelled.

Damn I wish I was a space cowboy. Or a space pirate.

Yeah, same with Jericho. Being post-apocalyptic fiction and conspiracy nerd helps too. Writing was horrible sometimes but it was decent enough.

[Ele'ill]

My favorite series. I've watched the entire series/movie many times. Many times doesn't quite cut it.

[Imposter Marxist]

I like Firefly, it only ran for a few episodes though, so who knows where it could have went.


Star Trek the Next Generation is still vastly superior to all other science fiction.

[khad]

Firefly is neo-liberal propaganda. No one uses an AK-47. There are no favorable references to the Red Army. And you lot eat it up!
I can only feel pity for a philistine such as yourself.

Whedon went to Wesleyan, where he studied under Richard Slotkin, a professor who wrote 3 books on the meaning of the Frontier myth in American society, a man who was deeply critical of the ways in which the Frontier serves to reinforce dominant, hegemonic narratives of white racial triumphalism and capitalism. To spare you the task of slogging through 2200 pages of Slotkin's writings, let me give you the cliff's notes version: The frontier myth is a bad, bad thing.

And here Whedon goes regurgitating his own Frontier myth, thinking he's doing a good deed for smug liberals like himself--creating a future in which there is Chinese spoken but no Chinese, where Indians are still flesh-eating savages (the Reavers), and other non-whites serve as sexual objects for the white viewer's gaze.

The first example of the "Wild West in Space" came in the work of Edward Rice Burroughs (A Princess of Mars, with a Confederate Army veteran--ring any bells?--as hero), and the theme has been revisited again and again in the pulp of the 20s, 30s, and 40s. In its fundamental assumptions, the sub-genre is no less imperialist and racist now than it was back then. A notable exception (though I wouldn't recommend it as an example of a good piece of writing) is Norton's Beast Master series, which is written from the perspective of a Navajo protagonist.

[Quail]

Star Trek the Original Series is still vastly superior to all other science fiction.
Fixed ;)

[caramelpence]

Cool, I just started watching it, having heard really good things about it for a long time, not least through common references on XKCD. I'm looking forward to learning more about River Tam's backstory.


And I guess I can only thank you having typical western tastes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_to_Be_a_God

Epic rant about firefly (half right and half lulz):
http://users.livejournal.com/_allecto_/34718.html

But mostly, I just hate Joss Whedon's stupid, derivative writing and his stultifyingly self-conscious liberalism.

Does anyone ever tell you that constantly babbling about "Western decadence" and "Western tastes" makes you sound like a fascist or an Islamist? Your whole implicit obsession with moral purity is pretty disturbing. Like, have you ever been to a "non-Western" country? People in China, India, and elsewhere also eat McDonalds, have sex, take drugs, watch porn, etc. etc., you know.

[Susurrus]

creating a future in which there is Chinese spoken but no Chinese, .

I thought the mechanic girl was supposed to be part Asian?

[khad]

Does anyone ever tell you that constantly babbling about "Western decadence" and "Western tastes" makes you sound like a fascist or an Islamist? Your whole implicit obsession with moral purity is pretty disturbing. Like, have you ever been to a "non-Western" country? People in China, India, and elsewhere also eat McDonalds, have sex, take drugs, watch porn, etc. etc., you know.
'Sup bobkindles.

Never once did I mention decadence in this thread. If you bothered to read my posts they are clearly directed at the implicit misogyny and racism that infects all Joss Whedon works like a virus.

I know this thread isn't about NAMBLA (http://www.revleft.com/vb/there-trotskyist-party-t155340/index.html?p=2126476), but it is hard to make every thread about your personal issues.


I thought the mechanic girl was supposed to be part Asian?
http://www.radiofree.com/profiles/jewel_staite/interview02.shtml

If you count the Amerindian great-grandma as Asian...


I'm quite a mix of things. [laughs] I'm British, I'm Irish, I'm French Canadian, and I have a little bit of Native Indian in me. Iroquois Indian.

[Decolonize The Left]

khad, I think you're reading too hard into Firefly.

It's a show about space cowboys. And it's the only show to do a remotely good job of space cowboys (Cowboy Bebop aside, of course). I mean really, what is this:


And here Whedon goes regurgitating his own Frontier myth, thinking he's doing a good deed for smug liberals like himself--creating a future in which there is Chinese spoken but no Chinese, where Indians are still flesh-eating savages (the Reavers), and other non-whites serve as sexual objects for the white viewer's gaze.

Reavers weren't Indians... they were the white people on the planet who got infected with the virus and went berserk.
There may be no Chinese, but there weren't any other nationalities either (not uncommon for American TV). Zoe's black and that one bounty hunter dude was black as well (also not uncommon for American TV to have a few black people among many whites).
Non-whites serving as sexual objects? Certainly you aren't referring to the episode where the one uber-white chick is totally sexually objectified as a rule (I think it's Hendricks)? Or Inara? Seriously I don't know where you're getting this...

It was a b-grade series which happened to be very entertaining. Nothing more, really nothing less.

- August

[Invader Zim]

As has been noted, Khad is taking a cult and very pulpy tv show rather more seriously than is fair.

We aren't talking about Foundation, Asimov's Robot works or Rama II, here, which actually attempt to seriously deal with social questions (however you like or dislike the authors conclusions), we are talking about wild west gunslingers in space being chased by "teh govermentz".

[Kléber]

Real big man move there khad, banning bobby k over a TV show...

But I actually agree. fuck Joss Whedon, i'd rather watch Lexx.

[Os Cangaceiros]

And I guess I can only thank you having typical western tastes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_to_Be_a_God


Hard to be a God wasn't very good, I didn't think.

Haven't seen Firefly.

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

Only saw serenity, which I thought was an amazing movie

[OhYesIdid]

I love Firefly. As far as TV goes it was creative and fun. I kind of liked Serenity, but I would have rathered that the Reavers been barbarians instead of virus-crazed, oh well.

[Tim Finnegan]

Great stuff. The quasi-Confederate thing did skate close to the questionable at times, but I think that it kept itself on the right side.


Mal is Han Solo. Firefly actually could be better than it is but the character portrayal is much deeper than Star Wars.Just in my opinion, of course.
Nah- Solo starts off as a heartless rogue and eventual learns to be a compassionate rebel, but Mal starts of as a compassionate rebel, and spends the whole time trying to affect the constantly-slipping mask of a heartless rogue. Mal is the anti-Solo.


where Indians are still flesh-eating savages (the Reavers)
I think that you may be forcing the analogy there. The Reavers play the same thematic role that Native Americans do in a lot of Westerns, true, but I think it's pushing to say that they're intended as any sort of analogue to Native Americans as an ethnic group. They seem more like a appeal to a more general archetype of frontier settings- Picts and Germans in swords-and-sandals films, pirates in swashbucklers, Kazakh bandits in Russian osterns, whatever.

[PhoenixAsh]

On the subject of Reavers...spoiler alert:

Reavers are a creation of the government tests on the planet Miranda to pacify the population by using chemicals. This went horribly wrong...99.9% of the population became so lethargic they died and the remainder became thoroughly agressive and violent.

This incident was hidden and sealed by the government and kept on the wraps with the government denying even the existance of the Reavers.

[RedSide]

I really liked firefly. Some moments were hilarious, the character development was good and the world was interesting, with the diversity of cultures etc. I really wanted to know what was the story of the preacher:D and was really disappointed when I learned that it was canceled. Tbh i couldn't believe that this series was the creation of whedon.