russian anarchists fight capitalism with fire

[bcbm]

http://observers.france24.com/content/20110805-russia-arson-russians-anarchists-fire-black-bloc

[Susurrus]

Yes! The revolution is not dead in Russia! Though in all seriousness, it is good to see leftist action happening in Russia, considering they have both Putin's regime and the neo-nazis to contend with.

[The Douche]

I remember my first beer.



No, but really, good on 'em.

[Ele'ill]

Fantastic thread title.

[Pretty Flaco]

reminds me of the russian anarchist revolutionists from the tsarist times that would blow up random shit

[Aleenik]

I am against what they did. First of all it was pretty useless. Second of all I don't see how what they did could be good for the image of anarchism.

[Dogs On Acid]

I am against what they did. First of all it was pretty useless. Second of all I don't see how what they did could be good for the image of anarchism.

It's resistance. Get over it.

[Os Cangaceiros]

First of all it was pretty useless.

I think it could be useful in that (if they can publicly connect the acts to their group) it can potentially grow a larger combative movement.

Unless you mean it's useless in the "this will not end/damage capitalism or start revolution" way. In which case I agree.


Second of all I don't see how what they did could be good for the image of anarchism.

This I totally disagree with. Anarchism doesn't need, nor will it ever get "good publicity".

Anyway, good article.

[Luc]

I like what they are doing (as long as no one gets hurt, which none have).:thumbup1:

To quote Mr. Bowen:

"When buildings are destroyed and no one is hurt- who cares? It's a broken window, not a life. The violence comes from the companies that are targeted. They are wrecking the environment; they are wrecking lives."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"They will exasperate the state, cause crackdowns by the police regime and discredit the opposition"

Yeah, Like The Russian state ever needed excusses for cracking down on people it doesn't like. :thumbdown: for Oleg Kozyrev

[Magón]

See Marxist-Leninists looking at this, even your joyous purges of Anarchists couldn't get rid of all of us like you hoped. :lol:

/Sarcasm

Seriously it's kinda cool to see this sort of thing, but really I don't know how well it's going to work for the Russian Anarchist's cause.

[t.shonku]

Hmm! Nice to see the fire still burning kudos to the arsonist but why are we not seeing things like this in USA?

[Broletariat]

Hmm! Nice to see the fire still burning kudos to the arsonist but why are we not seeing things like this in USA?

Because you haven't done it yet.

[o well this is ok I guess]

This I totally disagree with. Anarchism doesn't need, nor will it ever get "good publicity".

Anyway, good article. I dunno, works great for revleft publicity.

[bcbm]

anarchist art collective voina vows to destroy $100,00 in russian state property as revenge (http://www.artinfo.com/news/story/38288/anarchist-art-collective-voina-vows-to-destroy-100000-in-russian-state-property-as-revenge/)

[Decolonize The Left]

anarchist art collective voina vows to destroy $100,00 in russian state property as revenge (http://www.artinfo.com/news/story/38288/anarchist-art-collective-voina-vows-to-destroy-100000-in-russian-state-property-as-revenge/)

That's cool. But they threw cats at McDonald's workers which is rather misguided and petty. On the other hand, the giant dick on the St. Petersburg bridge was solid (oooohhhh pun).

- August

[Os Cangaceiros]

Previously, Voina has thrown cats at McDonalds workers (http://melroseandfairfax.blogspot.com/2011/03/voina-throwing-cats-at-mcdonalds.html) and drawn an enormous phallus on a bridge (http://boingboing.net/2010/06/16/russian-art-group-vo.html) in subversive art acts meant to disrupt the tedium of everyday life.

hahahaha

[Os Cangaceiros]

"Anarchist art collective" makes me think of a bunch of dreadlocked bohemians sitting around in some "community space"/art gallery drinking cheap beer.

[RED DAVE]

Adolescent bullshit. Terrorism was refuted in Russia 120 years ago. IT DOESN'T WORK.

I like fires too. My wife and I had a delightful barbecue this evening. I don't confuse that with revolutionary politics.

RED DAVE

[Sensible Socialist]

Adolescent bullshit. Terrorism was refuted in Russia 120 years ago. IT DOESN'T WORK.

I like fires too. My wife and I had a delightful barbecue this evening. I don't confuse that with revolutionary politics.

RED DAVE
As someone who has contributed enormously to the global revolutionary movement, I'm sure the russian anarchists appreciate your views regarding their tactics.

[RED DAVE]

Adolescent bullshit. Terrorism was refuted in Russia 120 years ago. IT DOESN'T WORK.

I like fires too. My wife and I had a delightful barbecue this evening. I don't confuse that with revolutionary politics.
As someone who has contributed enormously to the global revolutionary movement, I'm sure the russian anarchists appreciate your views regarding their tactics.Yeah, right. At least I know the difference between revolution and burning a few cars.

RED DAVE

[Reznov]

Amazing, but sadly this will never happen here in the U.S., such great noble acts like this :(

[Tablo]

Burning stuff is cool and all, especially police and other capitalist stuff. I still don't think this will accomplish anything, unless the Russian working class are more supporting of this stuff than the American working class, which I doubt. Still support them cause I like fire.

[AnonymousOne]

Amazing, but sadly this will never happen here in the U.S., such great noble acts like this :(

Not with that attitude it won't. No reason you can't.

[t.shonku]

Because you haven't done it yet.

Sorry friend I am not American ! and I don't live anywhere near your continent


I am very much interested in seeing a revolutionary actions in USA bcoz that will prompt many people around the world to take such steps. A revolutionary action in urban US will give such a publicity that revolutionary actions will start popping up in every major cities around the world.I am tired of BS from CNN and the democratic oat meal , it's time for American underground to do something then other undergrounds around the world would start doing the same, we want to see an American Spring against wall street thugs.

During 70s there were so many underground groups in USA like "Weatherman" they did pulled some pretty amazing things .

[RED DAVE]

During 70s there were so many underground groups in USA like "Weatherman" they did pulled some pretty amazing things .They did virtually nothing to help the cause of revolution.

Rhetoric and bombs or fires do not make a revolution.

RED DAVE

[Apoi_Viitor]

You can't blow up a social relationship...

[Wired]

I thought this was really funny.

Also, the arguments put forward in the article, for anarchists to perform acts such as these, are food for thought.

[Ele'ill]

Do I see this conversation tilting the direction of 'anarchist tactics sucks hhmmph'... ?

[Luc]

Amazing, but sadly this will never happen here in the U.S., such great noble acts like this :(

Come on, if it happened in Canada im sure our American comrades will do it too ;)

See: G20 Toronto

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Always amusing to see the cappies in any country squirm when the left does some minor action.I wonder how the Russian government will respond?

[CHE with an AK]

Think of the fires as revolutionary smoke signals :cool:


http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j318/Tredcrow/2011/molotov.gif

[bcbm]

You can't blow up a social relationship...

but you can set it on fire!

[Sasha]

They did virtually nothing to help the cause of revolution.

Rhetoric and bombs or fires do not make a revolution.

RED DAVE

and neither does posting on an internet forum.

and you will have to admit setting fire to shit is a lot more gratifying.

[Broletariat]

and neither does posting on an internet forum.

and you will have to admit setting fire to shit is a lot more gratifying.
I'd say posting on an internet forum is more productive than blowing things up. At least there people actually understand exactly what you're saying, and if they don't they can ask questions to learn more instead of forget about it when the news broadcast goes off/it gets repaired.

[BrianUltraRedskin]

Is this what passes for "propaganda by the deed" for anarchists these days? :confused: Gotta love the sign of the horns that one guy gave. Totally gnarly, dude! SLAYER!!! :rolleyes:

Random and isolated acts of sabotage, violence or terrorism are pointless at best and usually counterproductive. It's fine and dandy as far as juvenile bullshit goes but please don't try to make some intellectual argument that arson is revolutionary.

[o well this is ok I guess]

A proper "propaganda of the deed" sort of action must be intuitively understood.
A McDonalds sign on fire is the same as a jug of milk on fire. What's understood is not that it's a McDonalds sign or a milk jug on fire, but that something is on fire. The symbolism seems to be too easily lost.
Which is what I like about street art. The message is clear and understood without any need for explanation.

[Sensible Socialist]

Yeah, right. At least I know the difference between revolution and burning a few cars.

RED DAVE
But no one in their right mind is calling this revolution. It seems like every tiny action taken by people disillusioned with the current world is shit upon by people here as not being revolutionary enough. As if every person outside of this forum is subject to stringent laws detailing what they can and can't do, with their only actions being those that directly lead to the fall of global capitalism in 24 hours.

The truth is it's a good sign that people are angry at the system and are willing to get off their asses and change it. No one is proclaiming it as the revolution.

[Sasha]

not to mention that people need to understand this is russia, you cant have a demo there without the fear of massarrests and serious charges, every time you organize an meeting or an info-evening there is an serious threat to getting killed by the fash, i mean these people need to bring baseball bats to their food-not-bombs actions to protect themselfs ffs.
and everything you do with all the dangers that it comes with is completely blocked by the media.
so setting fire to shit where you can get away with it and obviously does give you some media attention is not a strange choice.
and i do think there is an revolutionary value in it, sabotage is a big weapon in an (almost) police state, be it anti-kim graffiti in NK or an burning cop station in russia, its an clear signal that people are not alone in wanting to oppose the regime, that there are actually people willing to go out and do shit at great personal risk.

of course the nihilists didnt make the rusian revolution but it doesnt mean that the bolsheviks where not in debt to them either...

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

During 70s there were so many underground groups in USA like "Weatherman" they did pulled some pretty amazing things .

And what did they accomplish? (Besides really revolutionary stuff like founder Bill Ayers getting the "Chicago Citizen of the Year" award in 1997 and working with Comrade Mayor Daley.)

[bcbm]

And what did they accomplish?

the memorial to the police killed at haymarket had to be moved inside a police station

[Red And Black Sabot]

I'd say posting on an internet forum is more productive than blowing things up. At least there people actually understand exactly what you're saying, and if they don't they can ask questions to learn more instead of forget about it when the news broadcast goes off/it gets repaired.

Who cares? If the goal is to slow down construction on a ecologically destructive highway, (wich can buy you more time to do the education work you seem so concerned with doing) sabotage (ie: setting the machinery on fire) sounds to me like a pretty effective way of accomplishing that. Not everything anarchists do has the intent of building good ol' boy Ⓐ-PR.
As for attacks on the police... That resonates with folks who've been on the other side of police repression. Just look at the UK this past weekend. I wasn't into insurrectionary anarchism until I saw shit like this popping off all over Europe.
These are tactics. Use them when they benefit your goals. Fuck all them haters.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

the memorial to the police killed at haymarket had to be moved inside a police station

That definitely seems worth it.

[Threetune]

Do we know that this lot aren’t Russian state provocateurs? Just asking, such things have happened.

[Susurrus]

Do we know that this lot aren’t Russian state provocateurs? Just asking, such things have happened.

If so, it seems to have backfired due to the popularity of it.

[Threetune]

If so, it seems to have backfired due to the popularity of it.

That doesn’t alter the question or answer it.
"Do we know that this lot aren’t Russian state provocateurs? "

[Sasha]

Do we know that this lot aren’t Russian state provocateurs? Just asking, such things have happened.


do we know wheter or not the ML political partys you presumably are involved with are not started, funded and completely controlled by the security agency's? just asking, such things have happened (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist%E2%80%93Leninist_Party_of_the_Netherlands)

[Susurrus]

do we know wheter or not the ML political partys you presumably are involved with are not started, funded and completely controlled by the security agency's? just asking, such things have happened (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist%E2%80%93Leninist_Party_of_the_Netherlands)

Wow, never heard of this before. Don't know whether to laugh or rage.

[Threetune]

do we know wheter or not the ML political partys you presumably are involved with are not started, funded and completely controlled by the security agency's? just asking, such things have happened (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist%E2%80%93Leninist_Party_of_the_Netherlands)

Exactly, my point. Just as well the communists around him found him out ay? It’s always sensible to be alert to this sort of thing even if you can’t always get it right, wouldn’t you agree?

[Kiev Communard]

The propensity to insurrectionism among the Russian anarchist scene is predicated upon the virtual absence of any sort of vibrant mass movement they could be working within, and where the revolutionary (or at least combative) movement of the masses is absent, the revolutionary organizations, whatever their ideology may be, invariably lapse into either sectarianism or adventurism. Of course, such tendencies may be combatted successfully, but only under conditions of the masses' activity.

[Ele'ill]

I'm confused as to what the complaints in this thread are about.

[Sensible Socialist]

I'm confused as to what the complaints in this thread are about.
Some people, as they sit on the internet, like to complain about people that take any action that isn't directly involved with a socialist revolution.

[bcbm]

Do we know that this lot aren’t Russian state provocateurs? Just asking, such things have happened.

cough up some evidence they are, otherwise stop bad jacketing.

[KC]

cough up some evidence they are, otherwise stop bad jacketing.

Trotsky already discredited terrorism this is just serving the interests of the bourgeoisie therefore there obviously provocateurs

[Nox]

Fight fire with fire.

[bcbm]

Trotsky already discredited terrorism this is just serving the interests of the bourgeoisie therefore there obviously provocateurs

anarchism apparently gaining ground (according to the defenders of these actions) serves the bourgeoisie? sorry its a new century i am skeptical of how much hold the last has

even if they're wrong it doesn';t make them cops

[Dogs On Acid]

We must take care with these tactics though, they can dangerously alienate the proletariat from our goals.

[Delenda Carthago]

I got a history on my back that tells me that actions like that 99% are stupidly scheduled, organised and targeted and all they do is attract more stupid people. Plus, they can never ever achieve anything at all.


Other than that, its always good to see a sabotage on the fascist russian state.

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

Go big or go home, in the words of the immortal Emeril Lagasse, "let's kick it up a notch, BAM!"

[Threetune]

Ha, the poor and brave proletarian youth of every big city in Britain have just pissed fire terror and damnation all over everything incuding your individualist idiot anarchist heroes in Russia – learn the lesson if you have he brains.

[Dogs On Acid]

Ha, the poor and brave proletarian youth of every big city in Britain have just pissed fire terror and damnation all over everything incuding your individualist idiot anarchist heroes in Russia – learn the lesson if you have he brains.

Why aren't you restricted?

Every time I see one of your posts you are either trolling, flaming, or being plain rude.

I have no idea why the Mods haven't given your ass an infraction yet.

[Os Cangaceiros]

hey guys I think Trotsky wrote something about terrorism once.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Ha, the poor and brave proletarian youth of every big city in Britain have just pissed fire terror and damnation all over everything incuding your individualist idiot anarchist heroes in Russia – learn the lesson if you have he brains.

You obviously don't read insurrectionist websites/commentary. They're having a collective orgasm over what recently happened in Britain. :sleep:

[PhoenixAsh]

Right...these groups, for lack of a better word, are not state operated, funded or otherwise paid provocateurs. They resist the ever growing police repression in Russia and the openly fascist, pro-nationalist and anti-socialist and communist attitude of the police and the corporate run state. These initiatives are supported by a wide range of people (young and older; men and women; different ethnic backgrounds) and their aim is to disrupt and propagandise. Great care is taken not to injure anybody...but more violent actions will be taken if necessary.

The fear that there may be crackdowns is nice and all but these crackdowns are a daily reality as it is. The fear of people getting hurt is nice and all but people are getting hurt by the authorities and their stooges on a daily basis.

People are murdered, disappear in jail, are arrested for no reason other than suspicion and during peacefull demonstrations they are either attcked by the cops or by fascists and nationalists who are unopposed by the cops and even paid by them to do their dirty work for them.

It has gotten to a point that even wearing an antifa symbol in some area's in the large cities will make you vulnerable or a target and there is no limit to the amount of verbal and physical and ven sexual abuse.

Now...all the critics in this thread can call this ineffective or counter productive...but at least people are doing something. In a country which faces serious media black outs
this is,believe it or not, one of the few options these people have to get a message across or show the world there is discontent, dissent and resistance.

Somebody asked me to pass this along.

[Delenda Carthago]

Even though hindsight 20/20 has a point, it is crucial to me to transfer my conclusion on the greek experience.

After the December revolt, these tactics that existed before, became the main focus of anarchists. Every week you had at least 3-5 communiques for arsons. Matter of fact, this is where Conspiracy of Cells of Fire came out of. What was the outcome? Disaster.

A. Practicly, the attacks became meaningless as hell. They even got to the point of some groups attacking some parked buses and trains, "to attack the normality of the city"...

B. Many people got in trouble about it. Right now there are more than 40 anarchists inprisoned because they got even more into that logic and went to the armed struggle. Dozens more are keeping on the low because of the same reason.

C. The most basic, this kinda fucked the anarchists. Society was looking at them searching for an answer on their innability to give one was to isolate themselves to attacking in small groupings away from society in general.

The most funny thing, is the fact that all these groups had a really militant language on their communiques, while they said that they wanted to provoke the State to become more fascist in order for people to wake up. Other than CoCoF who had the dissency to actually stand by their word, everybody else got closed in their houses the moment the State did rolled its sleeves. So much for these hardcore warriors.Today, luckily this trend is very minimized.


I dont say that this is the case in Russia. I know its a different situation. I just need to say that these actions are quite catastrofic if not taken seriously.

[Os Cangaceiros]

A pretty good statement (http://actforfreedomnow.wordpress.com/2011/09/05/a-statement-by-one-of-the-russian-faiirf-groups-new-actions-in-moscow/) by the Russian chapter of IAF, plus a couple new attacks on the police.