Real world beginnings

[gendoikari]

Greetings comrades. I've noticed over the past few years that we as a community (meaning non capitalists) are so divided and fractured that we rarely if ever get anything accomplished. I've noticed things like the NOC trying to rally us all together but most people seem to think that will fail. and I have to say your are correct because you spake it. However, it doesn't have to be the NOC, but we need to band together if we ever hope of getting anything done. From Leninist to social democrats, we must band together setting aside our differences to fight the forces of capitalism which assail our world before they do irreversible harm. Whether that is through reform or outright revolution can be worked out later, but we NEED to band together and stand as one so that david may slay goliath. Families are already being torn asunder by poverty, the once proud middle class of america on which this nation was built has crumbled, and left in it's place are starving masses, yearning for a chance to see a day where they do not have to worry about where the next meal is coming from. It's time to crush our tyrant lords, it's time to invoke liberty's name sake once again and raise the sword of vengance, so that the enemies of prosperity may cower in fear and let the dawning rays of a new future shine forth.

[AnonymousOne]

The problem I see with Panleftist arguments such as this, that we should unite and begin to forment anti-Capitalism is where do we begin?

For example, the Leninists say we need a Vanguard Party, Libertarian Socialists and Left Coms disagree.

What do we advocate to replace Capitalism? Some argue, a DotP, others argue democratic councils, some are authoritarian others are Libertarian.

If we attempted to all unite and speak with one voice we'd sound schizophrenic. We all hate Capitalism and can put our differences aside for actions (G20 protests etc.) but to put together a platform with a single candidate? Impossible.

[miltonwasfried...man]

Yes comrade it would be great for all of us to march hand in hand to defeat capitalism, but is this realistic? How can a Leninist (who wants to take over power) and an anarchist (who wants to eliminate hierarchy) work together? They may want the same end but our means could not be more different. Social democrats want welfare capitalism where the rest of us want to destroy capitalism all together. Authoritarian socialists, social democrats and anarchists may have a common enemy but are essentially irreconcilably different.

[Kiev Communard]

The simple "coalition" of all the left-wing forces will never happen as the different political forces on the Left have so disparate objectives and strategies in mind, so it is rather impossible to unite them all into a some mish-mash "unity" programme. I would rather prefer a tactical co-operation, as we are doing here in Ukraine, with different left factions participating in common actions/demonstrations, while retaining their ideological and organizational independence.

[gendoikari]

Well it's either THIS. or we let the capitalists go the way they are. Now as libertarian/democratic socialist myself, i'd be willing to accept a leninist regime that wasn't corrupt to the gills. Because once we get the capitalists out of office, democracy can actually work.

[miltonwasfried...man]

Well it's either THIS. or we let the capitalists go the way they are. Now as libertarian/democratic socialist myself, i'd be willing to accept a leninist regime that wasn't corrupt to the gills. Because once we get the capitalists out of office, democracy can actually work.


"Leninist regime" and "democracy"? haha.

[Sensible Socialist]

Even with all the major differences between tendencies, I'm confident that when the police are shooting canisters of tear gas and swinging batons at protestors, you're not going to worry about whether the guy to your right believes in the vanguard, or if the woman to your left understands peasant revolt. When it comes down to it, when the going gets tough, we'll put aside our differences, if not only because when the guns are blazing you don't take time to question anyone willing to help fight for your cause. Of course now, on the internet where it's safe, it's easy to criticize each and every small detail of an opposing tendency, or to have lofty ideological differences. In the streets, however, it's a different story.

[AnonymousOne]

Even with all the major differences between tendencies, I'm confident that when the police are shooting canisters of tear gas and swinging batons at protestors, you're not going to worry about whether the guy to your right believes in the vanguard, or if the woman to your left understands peasant revolt. When it comes down to it, when the going gets tough, we'll put aside our differences, if not only because when the guns are blazing you don't take time to question anyone willing to help fight for your cause. Of course now, on the internet where it's safe, it's easy to criticize each and every small detail of an opposing tendency, or to have lofty ideological differences. In the streets, however, it's a different story.

Right, but those situations are different from trying to put up a candidate for election.

[Sensible Socialist]

Right, but those situations are different from trying to put up a candidate for election.
Ah, I didn't read the whole post in context. :o In that case, it's not very likely to have Leninists and Anarchists agreeing on a cohesive political platform.

[AnonymousOne]

Ah, I didn't read the whole post in context. :o In that case, it's not very likely to have Leninists and Anarchists agreeing on a cohesive political platform.

It was still very moving, and well written. :)

[gendoikari]

"Leninist regime" and "democracy"? haha.

hey, we ARE talking theoreticals here

[gendoikari]

It was still very moving, and well written. :)

Problem is if we don't get together and vote on a middle ground, it's going to come down to tear gas in the streets.

Not that i'd mind, I just want to see all peaceful option explored before anything forceful... if only so we have a good excuse.