What do most of the leftists think about Islam?

[UnknownPerson]

What do most of the leftist think about Islam? Do you believe that Islam is just another religion which is an opium of the masses and a big source of reactionary shit? I'm personally an atheist and think that it should be expunged like all the other religions.

[Tim Cornelis]

The notion that religion is the opium of the masses is outdated, it was relevant perhaps in the 19th century and before, but now, not so much IMO.

The idea that religion needs to be expunged is dangerous and sounds like genocide. For 80 years religion was suppressed in the USSR, and it did not die out. Not only is annihilating religion unethical as it is someone's personal belief, it is impossible as well. I'm fine with religion as long as people do not impose it on others.

[Aazadi]

I find all religion a horrible cancer on the minds of humanity, but I can't justify forcing people to give up their beliefs. I say just education on science and leave religion to families and communities to follow if they wish.

[Sensible Socialist]

It's an irrational set of beliefs like any other religious system, but I don't consider it any better or worse than other religious. It's been used by some dangerous people to do horrible things, but that's not something unique about Islam.

[Soldier of life]

The notion that religion is the opium of the masses is outdated, it was relevant perhaps in the 19th century and before, but now, not so much IMO.

The idea that religion needs to be expunged is dangerous and sounds like genocide. For 80 years religion was suppressed in the USSR, and it did not die out. Not only is annihilating religion unethical as it is someone's personal belief, it is impossible as well. I'm fine with religion as long as people do not impose it on others.

No idea how you can say that the idea of getting rid of religion sounds like genocide. I don't think it infers mass killing. In fact I think it should be the eventual aim of socialists.

My position would be that religion should be allowed to be freely practiced within a secular state, unless aspects of it detrimentally impinge on the lives of others. It is a private matter and people should be given the choice to practice religion or not.

In Ireland where I'm from, thankfully the grip the church once had on the country/state/people has loosened considerably, particularly after the role of the Catholic church in covering up the sexual abuse of children on a mass scale.

On the OP, I view Islam much like other religions. I don't have a particular hostility to it, which I think is something drummed up by the West.

[Nox]

In my opinion, from an atheist perspective, it's just another fairytale religion just like the rest. But from an anti-theist perspective, it's nowhere near as bad as Christianity in terms of the negative effect it has had on the world.

[CommieTroll]

Just like every other religion out there its nothing to me, of course like the militant atheist I am I would like to see religion wiped out but that will probably never happen. There's nothing wrong with spirituality as Marx said it himself. ''Religion is the opiate of the people'', which has probably been quoted here countless times and most leftists are probably tired of it but it is often misinterpreted, religion is a painkiller to ease the pain of proletarian life but organised religion MUST be stopped, you really think its ok that the Catholic Church can continue carrying out crimes of sex abuse? Islam though is actually about peace, which might come as a surprise to most Westerners, and is a highly misunderstood religion, there's actually a part of Islam I really like, anyone ever heard of Jinns? Muslims believe God made them from smokeless fire and, like humans, they too have free will. Supposedly they are in greater numbers than humans too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinn

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Well, to answer this question its nesecary to first determine exactly what Islam is. Is it the fundamentalist and reactionary Wahabi sect of Saudi Arabia? Is it the hardcore Deobandi sect favored by the Taliban? Is it the mystical Sufiism popular in parts of Pakistan? Is it the pantheist Islam prevalent in Indonesia? Islam can be a lot of things. The way any religion is expressed depends on the history and material conditions of the society it is in.

Sufi brotherhoods at various times played a revolutionary role during the Russian Revolution and the Algerian struggle for independence. Some Marxist writers like Norman Brown talk about the "imaginal realm" of Sufiism as being an important ingredient for the revolutionary transformation of society.

[Fopeos]

I'm an atheist and have been even before I knew the definition of the word. I believe peoples' religions are their own business. I would love to see people abandon the medieval fairy-tales and join the rest of us in the 21st century but i wouldn't support restricting peoples' expressions of faith. It is, however unfortunate that both Christianity and Islam are built around evangelism. It's not enough to be a moral and up-standing believer, they have to go out and convert the masses. I'm afraid that will generate social friction well into the future.

[Kiev Communard]

What do most of the leftist think about Islam? Do you believe that Islam is just another religion which is an opium of the masses and a big source of reactionary shit? I'm personally an atheist and think that it should be expunged like all the other religions.

I think all the religions are "opiates of the masses", so I do not think it is necessary to single out Islam as either less or more reactionary of all the other religious creeds.

[DarkPast]

I would not equate all religions. Some are much worse than others. Specifically those that urge violence against non-believers, condemn non-believers to eternal torture, promote sexism etc.

And, aside from to what Lenina Rosenweg said, there's many different interpretations of each religion (probably because the writings/traditions on which they are based are vague and often contradictory, but let's not go there).

[Pioneers_Violin]

Islam is one of the worst religions out there.
It's evangelical, sexist, intolerant and violent. At least it's not usually racist as well, unlike one of the other worshippers of the Hebrew War God.

Unlike religions that allow for the possibility of other paths to "salvation", these "intolerant of other beliefs" religions contribute nothing to society. Well, nothing constructive anyway.

"Intolerant" religions like Islam, Christianity and Judaism should AT MINIMUM be regulated and taxed heavily much like other addictive drugs.
Personally, I would love to see them stamped out.

In particular, children should be protected from at least some of the worst of this drivel.
At least the attempt should be made by treating churches, synagogues, temples and mosques the same as bars... that is, no one under legal drinking age should be admitted.

How to determine if a religion should be categorized as "Intolerant of other beliefs"? A check should be made of the suspected scripture for phrases like "You shall not worship any god but me" "We are Gods own chosen people" or ANY commands to do anything in the least bit harmful to "unbelievers".

Any religion that advocates Genocide or Murder anywhere in its scripture should be instantly banned and the clergy treated as war criminals.

[Luc]

I am not an Islamophobe, I hate all religions equally.

(Just like with all other religions) I think the continuation of incorrect ideas should be wiped out, (including us if we were wrong, if) and no not by killing all thoose who believe in it, just educating them and voracious criticism. ;)

Also, doesn't Islam mean "submission to God" (or somthing similiar)? I (and no one else) could be an anarchist with a lord.:)

Can't say for Communists or Socialsits though.

[CommunityBeliever]

I think all religions including Islam should adapt to the communist reality just as they adapted to the transition from feudalism to capitalism and to all the discoveries of modern science. Those religious elements not willing to adapt should be ruthlessly persecuted.

[DarkPast]

In particular, children should be protected from at least some of the worst of this drivel.
At least the attempt should be made by treating churches, synagogues, temples and mosques the same as bars... that is, no one under legal drinking age should be admitted.

This is a good idea. Even before I became a communist, I was always against acts such as baptising of infants. It's pure indoctrination.

[hatzel]

Unlike religions that allow for the possibility of other paths to "salvation", these "intolerant of other beliefs" religions contribute nothing to society. Well, nothing constructive anyway.

"Intolerant" religions like Islam, Christianity and Judaism...

Don't know if you've heard the rumours, but I have a sneaky suspicion that you aren't all that familiar with Judaism, and haven't read...well, any of that stuff about how the Jewish faith is only relevant to Jewish people and how other people can follow their own path to salvation (as long as they don't go around killing people for absolutely no reason, I admit there are some basic guidelines, but it's surprisingly common for people to think that murder is bad, so I don't consider that too much of a problem) and still be righteous and have a part in the olam haba, and all that stuff the Rambam wrote about how the Christianity and Islam that the contemporary Jewish communities found themselves surrounded by was actually a divine gift sent from heaven to spread righteousness amongst the people of the Earth as part of some grand plan, and also you don't seem to know about Islam and the 'ahl al-kitab and dhimmi (you know, like Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Sikhs, often Buddhists, and a whole bunch more - the kinds of people Muslims come across, you know?) and all that stuff written in the Qur'an and elsewhere about how you have to tolerate (BUZZWORD!!!) them even though they aren't Muslims because they're still on a path of righteousness, that they will still get salvation (ANOTHER BUZZWORD!!!) in the end, and...well, you get the idea. I won't even move on to Christianity. The point being that you should actually find out anything at all about anything before you start running your mouth off talking some kind of shit about something you clearly know nothing about, given that fact that at least two of the religions you've picked out as not allowing the possibility of other paths to salvation do, in fact, even if their most orthodox, literalist forms, specifically allow the possibility of other paths to salvation...but don't let anything petty like, you know, the facts or whatever, get in the way of your ramblings...

That said...

@OP: I like Islam, and very often quote Muslims and Islamic teachings (predominantly from Sufism, it must be said) in my theological writings. Also green is a nice colour :)

[UnknownPerson]

I am not an Islamophobe, I hate all religions equally.

(Just like with all other religions) I think the continuation of incorrect ideas should be wiped out, (including us if we were wrong, if) and no not by killing all thoose who believe in it, just educating them and voracious criticism. ;)

Also, doesn't Islam mean "submission to God" (or somthing similiar)? I (and no one else) could be an anarchist with a lord.:)

Can't say for Communists or Socialsits though.

This. When proper education is implemented the rate of religion will fall, as it's happening in most of the developed countries.

[pluckedflowers]

Frankly, I think the entire discussion is tedious, unscientific, and uncomfortably close to the kinds of discourse circulating amidst both the thoroughly un-revolutionary "atheist movement" and neo-fascists like that Norwegian dickhead.

There is no shortage of academic work done by social scientists engaged in the study of the religious aspects of Muslim societies. There are entire (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0863564712/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1565847520&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1T8VGAPP1G4NJPXV2NR2) books (http://www.amazon.com/Passive-Revolution-Absorbing-Challenge-Capitalism/dp/0804761450/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1312632913&sr=1-1) by Marxist scholars on the relationship between Islam and capitalism. Why on earth, then, do I always see such shallow discussions about Islam around here? And the same goes for other religions. Religion is a social phenomenon like any other and should be studied as such. What is there to discuss if no one is going to engage with the actual studies that have been done on the subject?

[UnknownPerson]

Frankly, I think the entire discussion is tedious, unscientific, and uncomfortably close to the kinds of discourse circulating amidst both the thoroughly un-revolutionary "atheist movement" and neo-fascists like that Norwegian dickhead.

There is no shortage of academic work done by social scientists engaged in the study of the religious aspects of Muslim societies. There are entire (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0863564712/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1565847520&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1T8VGAPP1G4NJPXV2NR2) books (http://www.amazon.com/Passive-Revolution-Absorbing-Challenge-Capitalism/dp/0804761450/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1312632913&sr=1-1) by Marxist scholars on the relationship between Islam and capitalism. Why on earth, then, do I always see such shallow discussions about Islam around here? And the same goes for other religions. Religion is a social phenomenon like any other and should be studied as such. What is there to discuss if no one is going to engage with the actual studies that have been done on the subject?

No, religion is a harmful virus. Religion, most of the time (at least in the case of Christianity and Islam) implies static barbaric moral codes which don't adapt to the present-day conditions, unless the believers will disobey them, which is adaptation by the religious belief fading.

Even when that belief is faded and isn't strong, it still institues reactionary moral codes which don't adapt well to the present day society at all, and are very harmful for this reason, as by definition, anything that is unadapted is harmful.

[pluckedflowers]

No, religion is a harmful virus. Religion, most of the time (at least in the case of Christianity and Islam) implies static barbaric moral codes which don't adapt to the present-day conditions, unless the believers will disobey them, which is adaptation by the religious belief fading.

Even when that belief is faded and isn't strong, it still institues reactionary moral codes which don't adapt well to the present day society at all, and are very harmful for this reason, as by definition, anything that is unadapted is harmful.

No what?

"No, there is no such thing as social science through which we ought to study social phenomena."

"No, there are no books on Islam or the relationship between Islam and capitalism."

Or just "No, I don't want to be bothered reading so I'll just make some shit up."

[DarkPast]

Both Islam and Christianity have a holy book - the word of God, they claim. I have read both, and it was quite enough to convince me that coercion, violence against non-believers, bigotry etc. are indeed integral parts of said religions (need I provide quotes?). Remember, these books have supposedly been directly dictated by the Supreme Being - so reading them should be enough to understand the religion in question.

Of course, many Christians and Muslims actually don't follow the teachings of these books, instead opting for selective readings and "interpretations" by priests - but that's another story.

[pluckedflowers]

Remember, these books have supposedly been directly dictated by the Supreme Being - so reading them should be enough to understand the religion in question.

No, it's manifestly not sufficient. Religion is a social phenomenon, not some ethereal set of ideas contained in a book. This really shouldn't need to be said on a leftist forum. As Marx wrote, "The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society."

150 years later and apparently we've abandoned materialism in favor of crass idealism.

[UnknownPerson]

http://imgur.com/iqpKCSorry, couldn't resist posting this:

http://i.imgur.com/iqpKC.jpg
http://imgur.com/iqpKC

[pluckedflowers]

PtBy_ppG4hY