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Fantomas
25th October 2001, 13:09
Capitalism vs. Altruism and the "Achievements" of the Soviet Empire
By Henrik Unné *(June 27, 2001)

The philosopher Ayn Rand once observed that the really major battle in our time is not between capitalism and Communism. The really major battle is between capitalism and altruism.

Altruism is the moral doctrine that one should sacrifice oneself for the sake of others as the *highest moral principle. As long as westerners accept the altruist ethics they will play into the hands of freedom's enemies. As long as they accept the idea that self-sacrifice for others is an ideal they will be unable to mount a principled resistance to socialism -- since socialism is the political means to bring about the ethics of self-sacrifice.
The history of the Soviet Union shows this clearly. It is because of the influence of altruism that the West's politicians and capitalists have repeatedly saved the Soviet empire from collapse.

In 1921, just a few years after the Russian Revolution, production had almost ceased in the Soviet Union. The "masses" were starving. Quoting from East Minus West Equals Zero:

"When H.G. Wells travelled by train through Russia in 1920 he saw from his compartment window a miserable landscape of untilled fields and idle factories...' Russia in 1920' he wrote 'presented an unparalleled example of civilization in a state of complete collapse; the railway tracks were rusting and becoming gradually unusable, the cities were falling into ruin' " (East Minus West Equals Zero, 195)

If the trend had continued the Communist state would have fallen. But the Western, semi-Capitalist countries came to the rescue.

Herbert Hoover, who later became the U.S.A.'s president, built up an international organization for providing the Soviet Union with food. The U.S.A. alone sent 700,000 tons of food. Other Western countries sent food also. The food from the West prevented the Soviet Union from collapsing in a nationwide famine.

It was the morality of altruism that caused the food aid. Many leaders in the West felt sorry for the Russians. After all, it was not the ordinary Russian workers' and farmers' fault that the Communists had taken over the country. So why should they starve to death just because Lenin's policies were insane? So reasoned the altruistic leaders in the U.S.A. and Western Europe.

Countless millions of people around the world have paid with their lives for the altruists' rescue of the Soviet Union. That the Communist regime survived has namely enabled it to cause even more devastation.

If the course of events had been allowed to proceed in a natural way then several tens of millions of Russians probably would have starved to death in the first years of the 1920s. That would have had two positive effects.

For one thing the Communists would have lost their power in Russia.

For another the opponents of socialism around the world would have been able to point at the Soviet Union and say -- "See there, they instituted socialism in Russia and the Russians starved to death!". But because of the food aid the world's socialists were instead able to point at the Soviet Union and say -- "See there, they instituted socialism in Russia and the Russians did NOT starve to death!". Thereby socialism's reputation was saved -- and the socialists could later institute slavery and mass murder in dozens of other countries in the world also.

The Soviet Union's parasitism on the West has continued for the entire entity's history. During the 1920s and the 1930s the Moscow regime fooled Western business firms and capitalists into industrializing the Soviet Union. These business firms and capitalists were obliged to form joint ventures with the Soviet government. The former contributed the knowledge and the capital -- the latter contributed only cheap labor (not seldom literal slave labor).

The American automobile industry's creator Henry Ford was lured into building up the Soviet Union's automobile industry. The great American dam builder Hugh Cooper led the construction of the giant hydroelectric plant at Dnieprostroi in Ukraine. The Swedish S.K.F. corporation built up the Soviet Union's ball bearings industry. And so forth. The American Arthur G. Mackee Company built the famous steel works at Magnitogorsk. Quoting again, from East Minus West Equals Zero about the building of the steelworks at Magnitogorsk by the Arthur Mackee Company:

"The biggest blast-furnace installations in the world were going up on another part of the site, a job undertaken and completed entirely by the Americans. Eight blast-furnaces were built, each over sixty feet high, with a capacity of 1,500 cubic yards and generating 1,000 tons of iron per day. At that time there were only eight such giants in the whole United States."

"The Bolsheviks had been far-sighted. The Mackee Company would only have fulfilled their part of the contract when Magnitogorsk was in full production, with Russian personnel, and running smoothly. The Americans were to run training courses for Russian technical personnel and, furthermore, were to send the workers and specialists whom they had thus trained to the United States for further specialized technical instruction." (East Minus West Equals Zero, 212)

All these "socialist achievements" were created by Western businessmen. But the Moscow regime, thanks in part to the Western media, succeeded at keeping that fact unknown to most of the world's public. Which made socialism still more attractive to envious mediocrities around the world who had daydreams that they did not need the capitalists.

The pragmatic Western businessmen who industrialized the Soviet Union hoped to make money by it. *I think they were motivated by pragmatism, and a disregard for moral and political principles. To them, trading with a slave state was no different then trading with a free country. The Western businessmen who industrialized the Soviet Union hoped to make money from it, while the morality of altruism provided the justification for easing their consciences when they made their deals with a brutal dictatorship -- they probably told themselves that they were doing a good deed of self-sacrifice.

In 1941 Nazi Germany invaded the Soviet Union. The German armies cut through the Russian defenses like a warm knife through butter. The Soviet Union was about to lose the war against the Nazis. But once again the U.S.A. saved the Soviet state. The U.S.A. instituted the "Lend-Lease" program -- which meant that America shipped copious amounts of weapons, machinery, raw materials and food to the Soviet Union. Because of the U.S.A.'s aid the Soviet state not only survived but also managed to repel the Nazi armies and conquered Eastern Europe. Then the Moscow regime managed, with the help of the West's intellectuals, to establish the myth that it was primarily due to the Soviet Union that Nazi Germany was defeated in the Second World War. Socialism's reputation was inflated still more, and still more countries were taken over by socialists during the postwar period. It is important to bear in mind that Nazi, or National Socialism, was socialism under the fascist method, or socialism by a facade of deceit, whereas the socialism under communism is simply naked socialism.

The Soviet Union collapsed in 1990. The Western countries could not prop up the Communist regime forever. But what a price humanity has had to pay for the aid to the Soviet Union that altruism has caused! It is estimated that in the Soviet Union alone 70 million people were killed by the Communists. In addition something like 100 million people have been murdered by the Communists in other countries -- such as China, Cuba and Cambodia. In addition the Nazis might perhaps not have been able to come to power in Germany if the Soviet state had collapsed in a famine in the 1920s. Socialism's reputation might have gotten such a bad reputation that Hitler's National Socialist party would not have had a chance to win the support of the Germans.

But it is still not too late to save the world's survivors from altruism. There are promising signs of the rise of individualism. More and more young people believe that they have a right to live for their own sake and to pursue their own happiness. People are learning to recognize that life is not a zero sum game, and that someone's gain is not at someone loss, but a win-win situation is possible under the trader principle where individual's voluntary trade for their mutual benefit.

Today, successful entrepreneurs and capitalists are viewed by growing numbers of young people as heroes and not as villains. The clearest example of this are polls of Americans who oppose the antitrust lawsuit against Microsoft and look up to its prime mover, billionaire Bill Gates. More and more of the young think that it is virtuous to make money the American way: by producing values and earning it.

These signs of improvement in our culture are probably a result of the indirect influence of Objectivism. Most Swedes have not yet ever heard of this philosophy and its creator. But Ayn Rand's books have been read by millions of people around the world. Rand's ideas have spread through the culture like rings on water. *The world's best hope today is that more people discover Objectivism by means of for example reading such books as Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead.

The author is a factory worker in Sweden.

vox
25th October 2001, 14:25
I've had one too many arguments with Objectivist clowns. Rand was an idiot, of course, whose philosphical errors are plain.

However, if anyone wants to argue against Rand and Objectivism, the following site should prove helpful to you:

http://world.std.com/~mhuben/critobj.html

vox

RedCeltic
25th October 2001, 14:37
A quote from that web site Vox refrenced to...

"Ayn Rand was a truculent, domineering cult-leader, whose Objectivist pseudo-philosophy attempts to ensnare adolescents with heroic fiction about righteous capitalists. "

Yea, I've heard of this 'clown' as well, and agree the quote above.

vox
25th October 2001, 14:53
Actually, one of my favorite quotes is on that website. Mike Huben himself came up with it:

'Libertarian UberMensch smites devolved, parasitic, running-dog, statist lackies that want our women!' Atlas Shrugged in a nutshell.

Always makes me chuckle.

vox

Guest
25th October 2001, 18:22
Hey great post Fantomas-Agusto

Guest
25th October 2001, 18:46
Im not a big rand fan, but I think your dismissal of her "philosophical errors" which you fail to point out, are characteristic of your style. You don't argue or contend with any of the facts presented by the statement fantomas posted, you simply spew out insults, frightened drivel. And redceltic nice "ass pat", at least contribute something to the conversation don't just mimic vox. Geez, I like how you use big words, ooh objectivist, what do you mean? Am I supposed to understand this within the epistemological context, if that is so explain how fantomas assumes the truth is in anyway something apart from what he is obeserving. How is fantomas basing his argument on what should be according to a conception of an ideal system, as opposed to what is accoring to his observations, and according to the evidence provided for in his post. Vox, your skill at sophistry might give you free rein over the opinions some people on this site, but not all.

Guest
25th October 2001, 19:42
See, you are completely uninformed on the nature of the post that you take out of context and categorize Ayn "asshole" Rands philosophy as "using big words". Her misguided philosophy of ultimate selfishness is what she coined "objectivism"

Fantomas
25th October 2001, 21:42
I'm not a big Rand fan either but this is fact wether these lefties want to admit it or not. When they can't deal with the truth, they turn to insults and name calling.
The Soviet Union was a total failure, so was every other collective-Marxist state around. I have yet to hear of a Marxist-Socialist country that was an economics success story---There isn't one.

Moskitto
25th October 2001, 22:12
The Soviet Union was a total failure

You really are pretty stupid aren't you. QUOTE one of us who supports the soviet union or even regards them as a communist state.

AgustoSandino
26th October 2001, 08:38
TavereeshKamo, and Fidel Catro Ruz, seem to be ardent supporters of both the USSR and of CUBA. Furthermore the persistent complaint that the US interferred with "every" socialist/marxist/communist state that has ever existed, only implies that you supported those states.

RedCeltic
26th October 2001, 13:15
Quote: from AgustoSandino on 3:38 am on Oct. 26, 2001
TavereeshKamo, and Fidel Catro Ruz, seem to be ardent supporters of both the USSR and of CUBA. Furthermore the persistent complaint that the US interferred with "every" socialist/marxist/communist state that has ever existed, only implies that you supported those states.

Saying that the US interfered with a Marxist/socialist state does not make one support the state, nor even a Marxist! I took a Govt. class that said the same thing... and the professor was anything but a marxist/socialist... and was just stating the facts.

Just Red
26th October 2001, 15:24
Fantomas, do you really believe the crap you're saying?
Man, this is stupid!
Tell me boy, why would't the yankee busniss-asses spend there money in the Ussr? Didn't Lenin have all the russian kapitalists shot? So why would Lenin have Usa-capitalists in the Ussr? Isn't it a bit stupid to build your factory in your eternal rivals' backyard?

Yes, it is!!
So your theory sucks, you're so stupid I can't figure out how turned your computer on anyway.

gooddoctor
26th October 2001, 19:40
here you go agusto, one of you is arguing why capitalism is better than altruism. and you still refuse to recognise the inhuman nature of capitalism, oh dear...
i never apologise for anything i support unlike you. i support the working people of the ussr because of their economic miracles and love of democracy despite the constant battles against their own fascist government and western imperialism. i celebrate the victory of ordinary people over adversity wherever they are, unlike you racists who seem to think that every russian was the same as stalin. what a sad misconception of an eternally oppressed people.
likewise i applaude the victory of ordinary people in cuba over the corrupt us puppet-despot batista, us imperialist aggression and the illegal trade embargo. cuba is now the most advanced carribean nation in terms of education, healthcare, industry and equality thanks to the liberation of the people by el che amongst others, and the tireless work against adversity by castro. the us imperialists cannot beat the unbending will of the people.
there is a difference between supporting ordinary people who happen to live in the ussr or cuba and actually supporting the regimes.

(Edited by gooddoctor at 8:41 pm on Oct. 26, 2001)

AgustoSandino
26th October 2001, 19:56
ah, thanks for proving my point gooddoctor.

And on a pertinent note. I don't believe every russian is "the same as stalin" were do I betray such a sick thought, that is rather presumptous and discriminatory(or racist if I wished to misuse the word like you do) of you to feel that every American thinks like that. What I do believe is that every socialist government ends up in despotism and tyranny and poverty.
Look at it this way, there are guys like VOX who have a Manichean view of things, they see only good vs. evil. Needless to say they fancy themselves on the side of good. Vox is so convinced that he is righteous that he refuses to accept the humanity of people like me or reagan, calling us "filth" instead. He is so convinced of our evil intentions that he says we're fascist, when I know I am a liberal and reagan has never betrayed any fascists thoughts. The problem is that if people like Vox ever get into power again, which I'm not worried about since Vox himself lacks any diplomatic skill, they wouldn't stop seeing things through their Manichean lens. Vox doesn't think people such as myself, or Reagan, can be reformed, we are "filth" we are enemies of the revolution. We are people that have to be eliminated in order for your utopia to exist. Unfortunately there are not just two of us, there are billions who think like we do. A couple of days ago I was in Yankee stadium, it was a jammed house, and what I realized there is that people who share your political/economical sensibilities wouldn't be able to fill up the stadium.

gooddoctor
26th October 2001, 21:21
billions of people also used to believe that the church had a divine right to power. then, after that, they couldn't see anything beyond feudalism. now capitalism is the only way. we are here to change that, raise consciousness and political awareness and help society progress, to give people hope in a brighter future.
agusto, i don't think that you're a bad person in spite of my often impassioned responses to your posts, you seem an alright bloke despite coming to our discussion board with some highly questionable opinions. a lot of people think like you, many of my friends and family too. i don't hold it against them, it's not their fault, but the media. but if you fight the revolution when the socialist party comes to power democratically, as we are coming very close to in scotland, i won't hesitate to fling my pacifist principles to the wind and pick up arms against anyone who tries to invade my country. once the people have spoken, we will be there to defend them.
i myself am a member of the scottish socialist party and i can assure you that our politicians are extremely dedicated and competent individuals who are motivated out of a sense of moral duty and not private interest unlike the power politicians. party mechanisms are already in place to prevent any one of them assuming too much power and to spread democracy to our grass roots. our party is grounded in day to day campaigning on issues that concern normal people from preventing councils from closing community centres to enviromental destruction to opposing the new imperialist war and nuclear weapons, and this will continue when we come to power and dismantle the destructive and regressive mechanisms of capitalism. this is reflected in the unimaginable rise and rise of the party; the latest opinion polls suggest that we have 10% support, just behind the tories, and that isn't bad for a 3 year old movement. we aren't a fringe party anymore, but the fifth largest in scotland and the gap is closing day by day as more and more ordinary people realise that new labour has betrayed them.
you believe that socialism leads to totalitarianism, but that is patently untrue. what you neglect to take into consideration is that tsarist russia, imperial china and corrupt cuba are worlds away from the west of today. when the revolution comes it will be in an educated, prosperous, parliamentary country. futhermore, our system of parliamentary democracy, which democratic socialist parties will work within, will not allow for totalitarianism. imagine if a socialist government accountable to people ever came to power in the west. with all that socialism has to offer, that thought is quite beautiful and not at all utopian don't you agree? it is coming so be aware, we are not your enemy.
oh, and by the way, which point did i prove? i didn't think you had one. if it was that national socialist (nazi) governments have come to power in the past and claimed to be socialist, then you are right and i won't argue and never have. but you cannot deny the success of the socialist elements of those systems and i don't think it's wrong to celebrate them.

(Edited by gooddoctor at 12:00 am on Oct. 27, 2001)

vox
28th October 2001, 15:53
Agusto now accuses me of wanting to "eliminate" people? What absolute rubbish!

How dare you, Agusto. You can't win an argument, even an economic argument, so you have to attribute to me things I've never said? I've never even implied such a thing.

Your misrepresentations of my arguments, which I call you on but you always fail to answer, were typical, but now you've taken to pure delusion.

Of course, what else can be expected of someone who champions a system that, by its very nature, condemns the masses rewards the few?

vox

gooddoctor
28th October 2001, 23:43
agusto's really getting desperate. i fear he's not going to last much longer here unless he's going to become a socialist. it's a shame, i've grown kind of used to his weird ways and the ease with which his arguments are defeated. great for target practise...

AgustoSandino
29th October 2001, 01:37
Um, show me, either gooddoc or Vox, where you've defeated any of my arguments. As I see it, everytime Vox encounters a polemical wall he goes forth crying "Nicaragua!" And then proceeds to attack, not the topic of my argument, but its delivery. Yes Vox, as I've noted many times before you are a master sophist.

Do you frighten me Vox, no, you have no hope of ever suceeding so you don't. But I find your Manichean view(prove to me you see shades of gray) quite ridiculous and reminiscent of many a totalitarian leftist that has come before you.

Gooddoctor, good luck with your movement, I, me, myself, am not against any democratic leftist movement. I just disagree with many of this site's members advocating 'overthrow' and in many cases proposing a violent means to their 'revolution'. I commend you gooddoctor for realizing that the system allows change to come from within, I just hope you understand that your 10 percent, even in a parlimentarian system makes you a fringe party. Furthermore, just because Neo-jacobites might be turned on by your 'nationalist' stance (which I might add appears inconsistent with socialism) I might add that this doesn't mean that they'll like your economic platforms.


As to the argument at hand, gooddoctor, did you read the initial post. Altruism here is meant to be generosity, it means coercive socialism that forces 'generosity'. I am against that, I am for individual charity. I think people should have the choice to be assholes. I don't disagree with the fact that capitalism leads to higher economic wages to some, but I do contend that such a class is static. On the contrary people from the lower classes have the opportunity to rise up the economic ladder, America is a great example of this, and that is why immigrants continue to come to the US, for opportunity.

gooddoctor
29th October 2001, 18:47
agusto, you forget that we are a three year old fringe party. at this rate in fifteen we'll be in power. and as for opportunity. i read today about the inhumane nature of new labour's voucher system for asylum seekers. it is a system designed to deter asylum applications pure and simple. how's that for opportunity?
fact is agusto, you're quite good at arguing in theory, but you are too detached from reality to make any impact.

(Edited by gooddoctor at 7:51 pm on Oct. 29, 2001)