Why do women prefer jerks?

[punisa]

Although the subject might sound a bit stupid and extremely biased, I'm still intrigued.
I'm 27 now and ever since I was 13,14 I've always noticed that biggest jerks always got all the girls.

And I'm not talking about guys who are simply communicative, easy going and have a good sense of humor.
Sure, if you are stiff and shy you will obviously get less attention.
But this is something different.

I know guys who actually employ a "strategy" to treat girls like shit and they have almost 100% success rate.
This is really sad.

And yeah, it's true - these guys usually have no "looks", although the appearance is a subject of debate. But from retrospective I can confirm that all guys who used such rude and aggressive approach were usually in some way physically less attratcive then other.
The best thing is that majority of girls always fell for this.

Is it really a psychological issue?
Or perhaps I'm being a fool since majority of these situations happen in nightclubs and such :blink:

[Dr Mindbender]

sorry to break it to you, but yeah you're being a fool.

[agnixie]

Some women prefer to flick instead.

[Pretty Flaco]

Most women prefer me.

[kahimikarie]

Women don't like jerks, but they do hate Nice Guys (different than genuinely nice guys.)

[AnonymousOne]

It's not so much that women like jerks, it's more that jerks are very good at manipulating women who have self-esteem issues (which a lot of women have because of the onslaught of advertisments, thanks again Capitalism.)

For example, there's a whole "strategy" of using backhanded compliments, to flatter the person but also make them seek your own approval, which is disgusting.

There's a whole difference between liking someone, and being manipulated by someone.

[Thirsty Crow]

It's not so much that women like jerks, it's more that jerks are very good at manipulating women who have self-esteem issues (which a lot of women have because of the onslaught of advertisments, thanks again Capitalism.)

There's a whole difference between liking someone, and being manipulated by someone.
How does the ad industry afffect women in general, and concretely in relation to individual psychology (self-esteem)? Would you recommend something to read along these lines?

I'm asking not because I don't have a clue about this. I would speculate that beauty standards, as well as the "eternal youth" paradigm, tend to overburden women in particular. But I'd like to read something more in depth.

[AnonymousOne]

How does the ad industry afffect women in general, and concretely in relation to individual psychology (self-esteem)? Would you recommend something to read along these lines?

I'm asking not because I don't have a clue about this. I would speculate that beauty standards, as well as the "eternal youth" paradigm, tend to overburden women in particular. But I'd like to read something more in depth.

Yeah, definitely:

Dr. Richard F. Taflinger with Washington State University's Media and Communications department wrote a three part article discussing how media communications, biology, psychology, and the advertising industry all impact self-image.

http://public.wsu.edu/~taflinge/esteem.html

http://books.google.com/books/about/Measuring_up.html?id=Jpm4x1bNw7kC

That's a good book discussing how self-image is affected when advertising forces our society to become obsessed with our bodies.

Edit: I accidentally a word. Edit: and I accidentally a punctuation.

[Rafiq]

Patriarchy makes women think men are superior to them and that they must in some way pair with one. When they have low self esteem, men take advantage and there you go.

[Dr Mindbender]

To be honest, i don't think these shallow or misguided preferences are confined to women. Its culturally engrained on men to pursue blonde, skinny model like women and to hell with other attributes.

In male circles, men are often ostracised for dating or being with women if they are percieved as overweight, physically unattractive not fashion conscious or in any way deviates from the cookie cutter front magazine front page regardless of how nice they are as a person. My current partner is saddled with all sorts of self esteem issues because of this, and i can confirm she has no 'preference' for 'jerks'.

Perhaps the equivalent themes are pertinent in female circles?

Open minded girls are out there but you are'nt going to find any in awful nightclubs where the mainstream trend setters congregate.

[manic expression]

It's true that "jerks" do attract the attention and affection of women, but not just because they're jerks...it's because jerks don't give a shit what anyone thinks of them; they do what they want, when they want to do it, and they never ask for permission. Many women like that because it exudes confidence, strength and power. After all, many of our sisters seek in men excitement first and foremost, and jerks provide that.

The good news is that you don't have to be either a jerk or a nice guy. You can be strong and not take shit from anyone without being rude to women. In fact, you'll get more respect from those around you. As far as "being nice" goes, just save your niceness for people who matter in your life, not someone you just met.

By the way, no one has a 100% success rate. No one. A lot of the jerks you see get rejected by plenty of girls, but it doesn't bother them so you rarely notice.


For example, there's a whole "strategy" of using backhanded compliments, to flatter the person but also make them seek your own approval, which is disgusting.
The kind-of-negative-compliments are for when you come across someone who, because she's seen as a goddess of beauty by everyone around her and therefore looks down on people, probably wouldn't give you the time of day in most situations. It's a matter of saying "yeah, I see the pedestal you're on, but it doesn't matter to me", which can help get rid of the superficiality of capitalist marketing IMO.

[AnonymousOne]

The kind-of-negative-compliments are for when you come across someone who, because she's seen as a goddess of beauty by everyone around her and therefore looks down on people, probably wouldn't give you the time of day in most situations. It's a matter of saying "yeah, I see the pedestal you're on, but it doesn't matter to me", which can help get rid of the superficiality of capitalist marketing IMO.

I'm talking about bullshit like "negging" such as this:

http://www.sosuave.com/articles/neghits.htm

Notice how it also talks about, giving and taking value from the woman. Such a fucked up worldview.

Edit: Even better example, the link talks about how insulting the woman with negs penetrate her "***** shield"

[Dr Mindbender]

You also have to ask, if you're talking to the sort of woman who prefers assholes is it really worth starting a relationship with her anyway? She will more than likely break your heart or you'll get sick of her.

(assuming you're after more than casual sex of course).

[praxis1966]

I think AnonymousOne has a lot of valid points, but I'd argue something a little further in terms of gender programming. See, it does have a lot to do with self esteem and manipulation, but it also has to do with some women's male role models. What I'm saying is that if a woman had a father who was the stereotypical unaffectionate, emotionally repressed male, I'd say they're more likely seek approval from a man who behaves similarly. Basically, that jerky, macho father becomes the archetype for manhood...

Personally, I think this whole problem could be avoided if more fathers made themselves emotionally available to their daughters but they don't... Because sexism knows no bounds so they tend to devalue women in general, even their own daughters. It's fucking sad when you think about it.

[punisa]

sorry to break it to you, but yeah you're being a fool.

Well, you may be correct. I even included that as an option :lol:
But I did not intend to make some "buahaaa, my rude friends get laid more then me" topic.
I'm actually interested to figure why it tends to be like it is.

I agree with poster who said that not caring could be perceived as a sign of strong character, that sounds reasonable.
Stuff like "neg-hits" are disgusting, but also tend to work.

How about "nagging"?
Personally I will approach anyone I like and don't care much if I get a rejection.
But if I do get rejected I'll just smile back and wish her a pleasant night/day.
I have a friend who takes this completely differently, he gets rejected almost always but doesn't go away. He simply, well... nags her.
Not cool.

[Aeval]

Hmm, lots of guys come out with this one but to be honest I don't think it's that true that women prefer jerks. Like a lot of people have already said, you probably don't notice when those type of guys get knocked back because they don't sit there and whinge about it. I don't prefer jerks, nor do any of my female friends, so I very much doubt they are having a 100% success rate, unless they are just very good at working out the minority of women that it will work on.

Or maybe it's because of this. (http://www.heartless-*****es.com/rants/niceguys/Jerksthelesserevil.shtml)

[praxis1966]

For what it's worth, I think a lot of people here need to stop trying to meet a partner in a bar. That may explain a ton of the inclusion biases I see in this thread.

[punisa]

Hmm, lots of guys come out with this one but to be honest I don't think it's that true that women prefer jerks. Like a lot of people have already said, you probably don't notice when those type of guys get knocked back because they don't sit there and whinge about it. I don't prefer jerks, nor do any of my female friends, so I very much doubt they are having a 100% success rate, unless they are just very good at working out the minority of women that it will work on.

Or maybe it's because of this. (http://www.heartless-*****es.com/rants/niceguys/Jerksthelesserevil.shtml)

Of course the 100% success rate is simply a matter of speech :)
Also it's interesting what you pointed out - neither you nor your friends would prefer a "jerk". But how many women would actually openely state they are attracted to jerks? Not that many...

Btw, the link you provided is kinda immature and rather sexist towards men by dumping them into one big category - they are all manipulators.
I'm certain that many men are not like that and prefer to speak their minds and simply be themselves, rather then putting on a show.

[punisa]

For what it's worth, I think a lot of people here need to stop trying to meet a partner in a bar. That may explain a ton of the inclusion biases I see in this thread.

Couldn't agree more.
But where I live, everything is one big bar :lol:

[Aeval]

Of course the 100% success rate is simply a matter of speech :)
Also it's interesting what you pointed out - neither you nor your friends would prefer a "jerk". But how many women would actually openely state they are attracted to jerks? Not that many...

Btw, the link you provided is kinda immature and rather sexist towards men by dumping them into one big category - they are all manipulators.
I'm certain that many men are not like that and prefer to speak their minds and simply be themselves, rather then putting on a show.

Well no, they probably wouldn't, but if your definition of a jerk is someone who deliberately treats women like shit to keep them interested then I can't say I've ever been in a relationship with someone like that, nor would I be particularly impressed if someone started doing that. And knowing most of my friends current and previous partners there are very few who I would put into that category. There certainly are some, but most of them were also manipulative little shits and I'd say that it was that which kept the relationship going (I mean like being nice to their girlfriend one day and then being an arse the next so that they don't know whether they are coming or going). I don't see how being a jerk all the time would be that effective on most people.

Also, the link I posted does not dump men into one big category, nor does it say they are all manipulators. In fact, if you read other articles on that website they say that most men do not fall into either of these categories but are perfectly nice, pleasant people. "Nice Guys" (that is, not guys who are nice but rather manipulative ones who pretend to be nice) and "Jerks" are very similar. I can't say I agree with everything on that website but I do agree with this point.

[praxis1966]

Btw, the link you provided is kinda immature and rather sexist towards men by dumping them into one big category - they are all manipulators.
I'm certain that many men are not like that and prefer to speak their minds and simply be themselves, rather then putting on a show.

Except that women are the victims of patriarchy so some residual anti-male sentiment is to be expected. If you have a problem with anti-male sexism, don't be a sexist. Simple as that. In other words, anti-male attitudes are a product of patriarchy and men are in no moral position to criticize them for it. Essentially, this works the same way as a white person accusing a person of African descent of racism... It takes a willful ignorance of history and current affairs to do such a thing.

Further, I took that article for comedic exaggeration. It was pretty obvious to me.

[Tim Cornelis]

Women don't like jerks, they like confident men. Jerks are usually confident and take initiative, that's why they "get all the girls"

[Dr Mindbender]

But where I live, everything is one big bar :lol:

Use the internet then.

The internet is one big place with designated dating areas for people with social confidence issues.

If it wasn't for the net i'd still be a forever alone guy.

[AnonymousOne]

Btw, the link you provided is kinda immature and rather sexist towards men by dumping them into one big category - they are all manipulators.
I'm certain that many men are not like that and prefer to speak their minds and simply be themselves, rather then putting on a show.

The problem is that you're helping perpetuate this view when you use stereotypes like, "Women prefer jerks."

If you truly want to change things, become concious of the way that your actions can be percieved as sexist or misogynist. Western society is still very steeped in patriarchy.

[Dr Mindbender]

I kinda understand where that article from the heartless*****es.com site is coming from (even though going from their other articles (http://www.heartless*****es.com/rants/entitlement.shtml) they are a bunch of right wing douches) Women dont want jerks but at the same time they dont want whiny, needy men who reek of desperation and cant provide from themselves let alone a wife and children. The trick is to tightrope somewhere in between.

[punisa]

The problem is that you're helping perpetuate this view when you use stereotypes like, "Women prefer jerks."

I stand corrected. I should have put the title "Why do some women prefer jerks?".
I'm aware of the fact that many women dislike "jerks".

[Dr Mindbender]

I stand corrected. I should have put the title "Why do some women prefer jerks?".
I'm aware of the fact that many women dislike "jerks".
Like i said, i dont think its specifically a women thing. Plenty of men like 'jerk women' or whatever the female equivalent of a jerk is. Hence the stampede of suitors around the likes of pretentious socialites like Paris Hilton and Courtney Kardashian.

[punisa]

Like i said, i dont think its specifically a women thing. Plenty of men like 'jerk women' or whatever the female equivalent of a jerk is. Hence the stampede of suitors around the likes of pretentious socialites like Paris Hilton and Courtney Kardashian.

Sure, it runs both ways. I know many guys who ended with terrible gfs and are reluctant to dump them. Why is a mystery to me.
It's hard not to sound stereotypical, but when it comes down to being attracted to male/female jerks - men tend to make same mistakes their entire life, while the trend of women being attracted to jerks seems to diminish as soon as they reach 30.
I know, I know... you can burn me for making such statements, but this is just personal observation - not meaning to preach this as a fact :o

[~Spectre]

Here you go: http://www.demonoid.me/files/details/2352223/02315806902/

I think negging gets a bad rap, because of the terminology used to talk about it. Guys use terms like "demonstrate higher value" "the target" "reward/punish", just as jargon.

It's just different forms of social interaction to get the things that you want. If you want to have more sex, then certain forms of more "alpha" behavior will get you better results.

It's not a conscious process most of the time, it's just how things go. Most of the time it's just harmless jokes. I don't see how it's particularly more fucked up than trying to get a woman to have sex with you by flaunting your money. In either case, she's a consenting adult, and is free to respond to whatever behavior she finds appealing.

[~Spectre]

Women don't like jerks, they like confident men. Jerks are usually confident and take initiative, that's why they "get all the girls"

Indeed. But it's also slightly more complicated than that. Ignoring someone, while a sign of confidence, is also colloquially referred to as "being a jerk".

Ignoring someone can make them desire you more. "Playing hard to get" and all that. Women do this just as much as men.

Oftentimes women hand down this sort of advice to each other much more freely than men do. A lot of men genuinely don't have a clue what to do and it damages their lives, so I think it's silly to crash down on the community that tries to get better at "pick-up".

[~Spectre]

There's a whole difference between liking someone, and being manipulated by someone.

Almost all interaction is manipulation. If you ever stop, even for a second to think "how will he/she react to this" and adjust accordingly, you're being "manipulative".

Trying to extract yourself from certain forms of behavior when trying to have sex is like trying to extract yourself from capitalism. You can really do it if you want to, but you'll probably be isolated, unhappy, and alone.

[manic expression]

Great points by ~Spectre.


Edit: Even better example, the link talks about how insulting the woman with negs penetrate her "***** shield"
The idea is there to tell guys that she's not to blame because she ISN'T a "*****", but she might be rude to people who bore and/or annoy her. It reduces misogynistic fallacies.

By the way, I think this video is pertinent to the topic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsAAZjLy4js)

[~Spectre]

Very true. Oftentimes, the underlying message in those communities is actually "progressive" in that sense. They try show how seemingly irrational behavior, is actually entirely rational on the woman's part.

If an interaction goes wrong :The lesson is you're not a loser, and she's not "a *****". It's just that the interaction went down in ways antagonistic to evolutionary psychology.

[black magick hustla]

this threads are dumb, there are always dudes that say "women like this and that" which sometimes i think is a bit patronizing and thats why i never opine in them. just think of yourself as a man and ask yourself how do you perceive other men? NiceGuys tm as in not genuinely nice guys, but people who camouflage their desperation with a shallow self lessness are weiners in most people's minds. i mean have some self respect yo. i think "jerks" get girls in the same way "jerks" get male friends, they sometimes are exciting and they provide a sort of challenge. when did NiceGuy tm had a lot of real friends that aren't self-serving assholes?

[HEAD ICE]

fuck. way too much pseudopsychology in this thread. people who are "jerks" generally have a high level of self-confidence. really depends on what a jerk is. is it someone who is manipulative? or someone who you construe as having a gigantic ego because they have an inkling of self-confidence? genuine nice guys get girls all the time.

[kahimikarie]

I think negging gets a bad rap, because of the terminology used to talk about it. Guys use terms like "demonstrate higher value" "the target" "reward/punish", just as jargon.

It's just different forms of social interaction to get the things that you want. If you want to have more sex, then certain forms of more "alpha" behavior will get you better results.

It's not a conscious process most of the time, it's just how things go. Most of the time it's just harmless jokes. I don't see how it's particularly more fucked up than trying to get a woman to have sex with you by flaunting your money. In either case, she's a consenting adult, and is free to respond to whatever behavior she finds appealing.



Gross

[Meridian]

Except that women are the victims of patriarchy so some residual anti-male sentiment is to be expected.
They are victims of 'patriarchy' to the same degree a person murdered in Soviet was a victim of Communism.


If you have a problem with anti-male sexism, don't be a sexist.
Fuck that, sexism needs to be fought against.

[Jose Gracchus]

I'm pretty horrified by all the one-dimensionality most of the male comrades in this thread are asserting about the female gender as a whole. I think much of the language of the thread is sexist: women are consistently discussed in here as if they have no agency or individuality or texture, and I find it hard to imagine people talking about 'men' in the abstract with such sweeping generalizations.

There are many women and many women want different things, at different times in their lives, for different reasons. Now there are some personality traits and dynamics of behavior which are surely unattractive always, and these are for the most part common sense. The best advice I can give in such brief space is to start by genuinely empathizing and relating to women in general and the particular women to whom you are attracted, so that actual human personal relations become possible at all. Many dysfunctions in our gender relations can be traced to the tendency to treat women as if they are not equal and equivalent human beings, more like some strange alien lifeform. I myself have made these mistakes when I was younger, and for awhile had no female companionship, as I got older maybe that improved, but the quality of my relationships did not. Empathy and relating authentically to women, and other people more generally, will be central to having more successful, more fulfilling human relationships, sexual, platonic, and otherwise.

[~Spectre]

I think much of the language of the thread is sexist: women are consistently discussed in here as if they have no agency or individuality or texture, and I find it hard to imagine people talking about 'men' in the abstract with such sweeping generalizations.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Genders don't have "agency". Individuals have agency.

Moreover: "and I find it hard to imagine people talking about 'men' in the abstract with such sweeping generalizations."

Is itself a sweeping generalization.

[~Spectre]

fuck. way too much pseudopsychology in this thread.

The prefix is redundant.

[Salyut]

A lot of men genuinely don't have a clue what to do and it damages their lives, so I think it's silly to crash down on the community that tries to get better at "pick-up".

Said community is full of creepy misogynists who charge hilarious amounts of money for their "systems". I'm honestly confused as to how they aren't projecting creeper vibes to everyone they try to run this stuff on. It stands out once you become aware of what they're doing.

[~Spectre]

Said community is full of creepy misogynists who charge hilarious amounts of money for their "systems". I'm honestly confused as to how they aren't projecting creepy vibes.

I'm talking about the people who go to learn, not the people who sell. It's like religion. All of religion is mumbo jumbo, but I can understand why people seek refuge in it. I don't consider them all creeps via associating them with the mega pastors that drive ferraris.

Likewise, I can understand why a lonely guy would earnestly try to get a method for how to improve his sex life.

"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto"

[Sir Comradical]

Although the subject might sound a bit stupid and extremely biased, I'm still intrigued.
I'm 27 now and ever since I was 13,14 I've always noticed that biggest jerks always got all the girls.

And I'm not talking about guys who are simply communicative, easy going and have a good sense of humor.
Sure, if you are stiff and shy you will obviously get less attention.
But this is something different.

I know guys who actually employ a "strategy" to treat girls like shit and they have almost 100% success rate.
This is really sad.

And yeah, it's true - these guys usually have no "looks", although the appearance is a subject of debate. But from retrospective I can confirm that all guys who used such rude and aggressive approach were usually in some way physically less attratcive then other.
The best thing is that majority of girls always fell for this.

Is it really a psychological issue?
Or perhaps I'm being a fool since majority of these situations happen in nightclubs and such :blink:

Moj drug. I don't think this is correct. Natalija from Emir Kusturica's "Underground" is just a crazy woman who loves jerks. She is not all women. hehehe.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

I think everyone (men and women) have both sides to them, jerk and sweetheart, to varying degrees.

[black magick hustla]

Well, you may be correct. I even included that as an option :lol:
But I did not intend to make some "buahaaa, my rude friends get laid more then me" topic.
I'm actually interested to figure why it tends to be like it is.

I agree with poster who said that not caring could be perceived as a sign of strong character, that sounds reasonable.
Stuff like "neg-hits" are disgusting, but also tend to work.

How about "nagging"?
Personally I will approach anyone I like and don't care much if I get a rejection.
But if I do get rejected I'll just smile back and wish her a pleasant night/day.
I have a friend who takes this completely differently, he gets rejected almost always but doesn't go away. He simply, well... nags her.
Not cool.


do you realize nice guys get laid a lot? who are you guys hanging out with? fuckin frats?

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

do you realize nice guys get laid a lot? who are you guys hanging out with? fuckin frats?
I like bad boys. Nice guys are nice but in a relationship they bore me.

Apparently, I am attracted to men who look like the young Charlie Manson, are very macho and tough, with attitude issues but would beat the hell out of a fratboy.

[black magick hustla]

Apparently, I am attracted to men who look like the young Charlie Manson, are very macho and tough, with attitude issues but would beat the hell out of a fratboy.

yes but you aren't "all girls"

[punisa]

I like bad boys. Nice guys are nice but in a relationship they bore me.

Apparently, I am attracted to men who look like the young Charlie Manson, are very macho and tough, with attitude issues but would beat the hell out of a fratboy.

Thanks for the input.
To further clarify my original viewpoint, since many originally already accused me of some form of sexism and this really isn't my style.

When I spoke of "jerks" I did not refer to "bad boys" with macho attitude you just mentioned.
I totally understand why proportion of women would be attracted to this group. They show of their masculinity and its attractive, makes perfect sense to me.

The other group, as someone said NiceBoys tm, also have a certain attractiveness - be it that they fake it or not. They come up as more sensitive, understanding etc. As with example above, I totally get why some women prefer this type.

Now - to describe the third category - "jerks".
These are the type who consciously or unconsciously put the women down and their approach usually consists of insults and statements which I find to be degrading towards women.
This is not something a stereotypical macho or mr. sensitive would do.

Sure, some will say that it's all okey if you want to score and that we are all consent adults and bla bla...
But the main question still stands - why do some women prefer to be treated in such a way?
Not all of them, I made this clear on several occasion.

I find such stance degrading towards women and usually feel that I have to bring it up to the certain friend if he acts in such a way. But on the other hand a typical response would be "Dude, if it helps me get laid, I don't give a shit".

So according to some folks even here, objectification and being rude to women is fine if the purpose is just casual sex?

[Agent Equality]

All that women are looking for in a guy is self confidence. That is all it is. If you are confident enough in yourself, you're going to be confident enough to take a girl out on a date, to give her a good time, to protect her, to do all of the things that she'd want and expect you to do.

Good looks certainly helps all across the board, but you don't have to be a jerk or a nice guy to get a girl as manic expression pointed out. I myself am very nice to girls but I also have a high self-confidence so in my opinion it works out twice as nice. I personally believe in showing girls genuine respect and kindness because these usually are the tale tell signs of real confidence and because they deserve no less unless, for some incredibly odd reason, they do not deserve such things (*****es and hoes perhaps?)

Now arrogance on the other hand, is completely different from self-confidence. Arrogance is what the "Jerks" have. Most of them actually have quite low self esteem and low self confidence and put on this mask if you will of fake over-confidence to try and hide it. Others are actually full of themselves and these are the idiots. To think of yourself as better than anyone else is folly no matter the situation, and to put yourself on a pedestal as high as some of these guys do is just plain wrong. We are, after all, looking to create an equal society are we not? One where people are not only economically and politically equal, but also socially equal as well?

Its always been my conviction that economic and political equality is just the gateway to social equality, which I see as the highest of the 3 equalites (how Ironic, I'm making a hierarchy of equalities :D). We don't always have to deal with economic and political problems, but you always have to deal with social problems, unless you are a hermit and are not dealing with people...then you can just go about your business I guess.

So fella's (men) just have confidence in who you are as a person and you will always get the ladies. But also remember that your self confidence is not a reason or an excuse for you being better than anyone else. ;)

[Aeval]

Now - to describe the third category - "jerks".
These are the type who consciously or unconsciously put the women down and their approach usually consists of insults and statements which I find to be degrading towards women.
This is not something a stereotypical macho or mr. sensitive would do.

Sure, some will say that it's all okey if you want to score and that we are all consent adults and bla bla...
But the main question still stands - why do some women prefer to be treated in such a way?
Not all of them, I made this clear on several occasion.


When you write a question like "why do women prefer to be treated in such a way?" it sounds like a massive generalisation where the only answer is; well most don't. All right, you've now decided to add the "some" to that, but it still sounds like you think this is a widely occurring phenomena, which I don't believe it is.

Why do some women put up with men who treat them like shit? There will be various reasons; maybe they have low self-esteem, maybe they've been in a psychologically or emotionally abusive relationship before, maybe they just think that particular guy is really hot and are prepared to put up with him being an arse. You seem to be suggesting that there is something inherent to women collectively which makes them prefer men who treat them badly, which just isn't the case.

Equally, other people in this thread are making extremely sweeping statements about "what women (all of them? collectively?) want". No, all that women (in general, all few billion of them) are looking for in a guy is not self confidence - some women are attracted to guys with a lot of self confidence, some are attracted to shy guys, some to macho ones, some to sensitive ones, some have no "type" that they are attracted to and it changes from partner to partner. Women aren't all the same. And saying oh no, I meant some are is pretty meaningless - of course some are, just like some men are.

[punisa]

When you write a question like "why do women prefer to be treated in such a way?" it sounds like a massive generalisation where the only answer is; well most don't. All right, you've now decided to add the "some" to that, but it still sounds like you think this is a widely occurring phenomena, which I don't believe it is.

No matter how many "some's" I put into the context you'll still blame me for massive generalization. If I indeed thought that majority of women behave in such manner I would say it, so there is no need analyze what I think.
I didn't put the title "Why do all women prefer jerks?", so drop it.

On the other hand even if it were a very marginal phenomena you are making it sound like it's below 0,001 % and that is not true.

[Dr Mindbender]

For the benefit of the OP this may be an interesting read. Its possible women DO like you, you have just overlooked the signs.

http://uk.match.yahoo.net/edito/index.php?mtcmk=080405&name=5/119/2391-10-surprising-signs-that-they-re-interested.html

[Le Libérer]

Yeah, definitely:

Dr. Richard F. Taflinger with Washington State University's Media and Communications department wrote a three part article discussing how media communications, biology, psychology, and the advertising industry all impact self-image.


http://books.google.com/books/about/Measuring_up.html?id=Jpm4x1bNw7kC



Just read the review on this one (Gender, race, and class in media) and ordered it. It will be helpful for my dissertation.

[Le Libérer]

For the benefit of the OP this may be an interesting read. Its possible women DO like you, you have just overlooked the signs.

http://uk.match.yahoo.net/edito/index.php?mtcmk=080405&name=5/119/2391-10-surprising-signs-that-they-re-interested.html

I would find that article even more confusing for the OP.

[Aeval]

No matter how many "some's" I put into the context you'll still blame me for massive generalization. If I indeed thought that majority of women behave in such manner I would say it, so there is no need analyze what I think.
I didn't put the title "Why do all women prefer jerks?", so drop it.

On the other hand even if it were a very marginal phenomena you are making it sound like it's below 0,001 % and that is not true.

You put "why do women prefer jerks" with no quantifier, which implies all, so don't tell me to drop it.

I was explaining why your initial post sounds like a massive generalisation not saying that you still were. I've accepted that you're now saying "some", what I was trying to say is that some women will put up with being treated like dirt for the same reason some men do - it's not because they are women, it's because some people have individual problems which make them more likely to accept someone treating them badly. I could just as much make a thread saying "why do men prefer it when their girlfriends talk down to them and constantly slag them off to their mates?" and then when someone points out that that's not always the case go, "oh, I meant some men". I'm sorry if you think I'm being deliberately antagonistic but a lot of what is going on in this thread (not just by you) seems to be treating women as a collective group in a way that people would be unlikely to talk about men.

[Dr Mindbender]

its probably unhelpful to categorise people in this way. No matter how repugnant their behaviour can be in public. They likely have redeeming features behind closed doors that you dont see which is why its hard not to jump to conclusions. I think everyone can be a nice guy or a jerk to a greater or lesser degree. I would classify myself as erring more towards 'nice guy'. I dont cheat, get drunk, get violent or verbally abusive or prefer to hang out with my mates and watch football in lieu of spending time with my partner. That said, I'd be lying if i said i display no jerkish behaviour whatsoever. Some days i reflect and say 'omg i wish i hadn't said that' or 'i wish id spent more time with her'. I think being in a relationship can change someone and the extremities that one is willing to go to in order to please their partner.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

yes but you aren't "all girls"
I am just a girl. I mean I am kind of somewhat a crust punk princess according to my man.

[praxis1966]

its probably unhelpful to categorise people in this way.

^This is probably the most helpful statement in this entire thread, and incidentally the reason I mentioned "inclusion biases" way back on page 1. The term "inclusion bias" is a term employed by psychologists and sociologists alike which describes the process by which stereotypes are developed.

Basically, the idea is that via one or two negative interactions with a certain "type" of person, one tends to look for evidence supporting a "hypothesis" about that "type."* This "hypothesis" winds up being less and less a scientific idea because the individual in question is only including evidence to support a foregone conclusion (the original bias) and disregarding all contradictory evidence. This is a rather common occurrence, even on the left... I've seen plenty of statements on this site like, "All you do XYZ and I hate it." Frankly, I've seen a lot of people on all sides of this discussion who this process seems to have applied to.

In my experience as a mod here in Non-Poli, this only tends to get worse when people start talking about pair-bonding. People bring a lot of baggage to these discussions and the result is a lot of hyperbolic shit flinging. In short, I think everyone here would do well to do the following (myself included): [I]Step back, take a deep breath, and do some self-criticism... Examine the motivations behind your opinions. You never know, you might learn something.

*Note: I use these terms loosely since they do have a scientific connotation, but the processes described are obviously antithetical to science.

[black magick hustla]

I am just a girl. I mean I am kind of somewhat a crust punk princess according to my man.

i am not denying your girl credentials, i am saying that you are not representative of all girls. some girls are into "bad boys" others are not. to be honest i think its a self-destructive attraction, and i sympathisize with people who get hurt by it in the same sense i sympathisize with junkies, but its a fucking stupid thing to do.

[LegendZ]

Women don't like Jerks. The like idea of Jerks. What I mean by that is they like some of the qualities that jerks have. Confidence(the I don't give a shit attitude) strong/dominant ect.

Well why don't women like Nice guys you ask? Well they do. WHA?????

Well let's look at some of the characteristics of a "Nice Guy" Not as confident, Needy, approval seeking walk over ect. Basically. HE'S BORING. Jerks present more of a challenge to women so they go after the jerk. After all Curiosity killed the cat.

Also most "Nice guys" are nice just to sleep with her. EX They give her flowers then ask her out kinda like expecting something in return. When she says no they call her a slut ***** whore ect. Who else created those words other than jealous guys who couldn't get a girl to sleep with them by trying to buy them over.

So what can you do about this if you are a nice guy?

BE A CHALLENGE. BE CONFIDENT BE STRONG. Don't be approval seeking. TEASE HER.

Now by tease I mean light fun poking at her. like if she drops something " Jeez you're such a klutz." or "See this is why we can't have nice things." Or just tickling her or poking her in the side. orrr
"I'M NOT TOUCHING YOU"(hold your finger in her face until she gets mad while saying the phrase repeatedly).

And PLEASE Make sure to ask her out. If you don't she'll just Friend Zone you where basically you become her girlfriend and emotional sponge. SO ASK HER OUT. NOW. Get off revleft go to the Gym TEASE HER and ASK HER OUT.

I am LegendZ, and I approve of this message.

[praxis1966]

Yeah, I've just about had it with this thread. Closed.